1. To circumvent minimum wage and labor laws. We believe that US workers should receive a decent wage for working and should have limited hours and proper working conditions. But, we could care less how people in foreign countries are treated.
2. To circumvent higher pollution standards. We want to keep our environment nice and clean so we send our factories overseas to poison somebody else's population.
By outsourcing, you are implying that people in foreign countries shouldn't have the same basic rights as your own citizens. Maybe some of you feel this way, I don't.
By the way, you can't look at per capita pollution statistics. That is idiotic, considering most of China is still an agrarian society. You have to compare factories of similar production acrosss countries to compare pollution output. By using per capita statistics, you are saying that because China is poorer and comprised mostly of farmers and thus produces less pollution per person, a factory in China will produce less pollution than a factory in the US???
Absolutely I care where a particular piece of gear is made. All sorts of factors go into that consideraton.
For example, I don't mind buyiuung gear made in France, Italy or UK. I don't mind buying US or in a lot of cases Mexican made gear. I (gasp!!!) don't even mind buying CANADIAN (I know.... I know.... ) so long as it isn't made of gold like apparently that stuff from the dead bird company is.
I avoid China made gear but for softgoods that's bloody hard to do. Ditto India.
But I wouldn't knowingly buy hard goods from either of those countries, nor would I knowingly do business with a US firm that oursources formerly US provided labor to either country or anything similar.
For example if I found out BD or Omega Pacific, just to pick two random examples, had outsourced cam production to Bangladesh I'd pretty much stop doing business with them; entirely.
For example, if a score of 90 equals sufficiently safe ...
So, let's just throw the ISO9000 system, Six Sigma , and Three Sigma out the window? Under international standards, and those endorsed by the UIAA (CE anyone?), climbing products should adhere to be at least a 99.73% free of defects.
Gmburns2000 wrote:
but let's remember that the US is still the worlds largest polluter.
I'd like to see these numbers too. Last I looked, China was number 1 on the polluters list.
[image]http://www.harpercollege.edu/mhealy/geogres/gifs/econgeog/pop-co2-chart.jpg[/image] [image]http://whyfiles.org/200immigration_pop/images/footprint_countries.gif[/image] However: [image]http://www.ldesign.com/Images/Essays/GlobalWarming/Part1/Activities/FourBestGHGEmissionPerformers.jpg[/image] but then: "The top twelve spam-relaying countries are as follows: [image]http://news.soft32.com/wp-content/upload/sophos_spam1.jpg[/image] “Responsible for a third of all unwanted email, USA and Russia can be viewed as the two dirty men of the spam generation, polluting email traffic with unwanted and potentially malicious messages,”" [bold added for emphisis]
:)
Those charts don't even come close to agreeing with each other (notice how Canada comes in second in chart #2...and then doesn't even apear in another of the other charts).
They are fabricated, numbers added up in very different and specific ways. I bet it would be easy to make more charts listing China as number 1 with a little tweaking.
read closely. One is CO2 emmisions, the other is enviromental damage. The second one encompasses other stuff, too (sulphites, nitrites, water pollutions, particular pollutions, CFC's, etc.)
You're right....I didn't read that!
Irregardless, Its good to by stuff made in North America. Let's support ourselves people! (one of many reasons to try to buy local that has nothing to do with the environment)
For example, if a score of 90 equals sufficiently safe ...
So, let's just throw the ISO9000 system, Six Sigma , and Three Sigma out the window? Under international standards, and those endorsed by the UIAA (CE anyone?), climbing products should adhere to be at least a 99.73% free of defects.
Not to get involved... but ISO9000 really has more to do with your quality system, from a business perspective, than output standards. I could care less what Petzl's mission statement is.
I'd like to see these numbers too. Last I looked, China was number 1 on the polluters list.
Probably depend on whether your looking at "per capita" numbers or just plain tonnage. Could be #1 in both cases though.
Well, considering they have the largest population in the world, and by a substantial margin in most cases, using per capita would move them lower on the list, not higher.
For example, if a score of 90 equals sufficiently safe ...
So, let's just throw the ISO9000 system, Six Sigma , and Three Sigma out the window? Under international standards, and those endorsed by the UIAA (CE anyone?), climbing products should adhere to be at least a 99.73% free of defects.
Gmburns2000 wrote:
but let's remember that the US is still the worlds largest polluter.
I'd like to see these numbers too. Last I looked, China was number 1 on the polluters list.
[image]http://www.harpercollege.edu/mhealy/geogres/gifs/econgeog/pop-co2-chart.jpg[/image] [image]http://whyfiles.org/200immigration_pop/images/footprint_countries.gif[/image] However: [image]http://www.ldesign.com/Images/Essays/GlobalWarming/Part1/Activities/FourBestGHGEmissionPerformers.jpg[/image] but then: "The top twelve spam-relaying countries are as follows: [image]http://news.soft32.com/wp-content/upload/sophos_spam1.jpg[/image] “Responsible for a third of all unwanted email, USA and Russia can be viewed as the two dirty men of the spam generation, polluting email traffic with unwanted and potentially malicious messages,”" [bold added for emphisis]
Absolutely I care where a particular piece of gear is made. All sorts of factors go into that consideraton.
For example, I don't mind buyiuung gear made in France, Italy or UK. I don't mind buying US or in a lot of cases Mexican made gear. I (gasp!!!) don't even mind buying CANADIAN (I know.... I know.... ) so long as it isn't made of gold like apparently that stuff from the dead bird company is.
I avoid China made gear but for softgoods that's bloody hard to do. Ditto India.
But I wouldn't knowingly buy hard goods from either of those countries, nor would I knowingly do business with a US firm that oursources formerly US provided labor to either country or anything similar.
For example if I found out BD or Omega Pacific, just to pick two random examples, had outsourced cam production to Bangladesh I'd pretty much stop doing business with them; entirely.
This "we" don't outsource. This "we" does, however, buy outsourced goods.
extreme_actuary wrote:
1. To circumvent minimum wage and labor laws. We believe that US workers should receive a decent wage for working and should have limited hours and proper working conditions. But, we could care less how people in foreign countries are treated.
This "we" thinks you ought to get what you deserve.
extreme_actuary wrote:
2. To circumvent higher pollution standards. We want to keep our environment nice and clean so we send our factories overseas to poison somebody else's population.
By outsourcing, you are implying that people in foreign countries shouldn't have the same basic rights as your own citizens. Maybe some of you feel this way, I don't.
Oh, so now it's "you" and "us", huh? Yeah, I guess you get whatever "rights" you get. Life's hard that way unless "you" do something about it.
extreme_actuary wrote:
By the way, you can't look at per capita pollution statistics.
Sure ya can.
extreme_actuary wrote:
That is idiotic, considering most of China is still an agrarian society. You have to compare factories of similar production acrosss countries to compare pollution output. By using per capita statistics, you are saying that because China is poorer and comprised mostly of farmers and thus produces less pollution per person, a factory in China will produce less pollution than a factory in the US???
I'd like to see these numbers too. Last I looked, China was number 1 on the polluters list.
Probably depend on whether your looking at "per capita" numbers or just plain tonnage. Could be #1 in both cases though.
Well, considering they have the largest population in the world, and by a substantial margin in most cases, using per capita would move them lower on the list, not higher.
Yeah, that was kinda my point. Looking at tonnage alone is gonna paint one picture, per capita another altogether.
Damn I just looked. They got 4 times as many people as we do! If they could find a way to ship em all over here, they could take us over through man power alone. GO CHINA!!
Absolutely I care where a particular piece of gear is made. All sorts of factors go into that consideraton.
For example, I don't mind buyiuung gear made in France, Italy or UK. I don't mind buying US or in a lot of cases Mexican made gear. I (gasp!!!) don't even mind buying CANADIAN (I know.... I know.... ) so long as it isn't made of gold like apparently that stuff from the dead bird company is.
I avoid China made gear but for softgoods that's bloody hard to do. Ditto India.
But I wouldn't knowingly buy hard goods from either of those countries, nor would I knowingly do business with a US firm that oursources formerly US provided labor to either country or anything similar.
For example if I found out BD or Omega Pacific, just to pick two random examples, had outsourced cam production to Bangladesh I'd pretty much stop doing business with them; entirely.
I like metolius- its oregon based- I don't really care where its manufactured. Their stuff is awesome, I love their cams.
Oddly Metolius is the company that made me want to post this question.
They aren't the first to start shipping stuff over seas, but when the "All American" hold set is being made in China now, I have to wonder how long it will be before everything is made there.
Absolutely I care where a particular piece of gear is made. All sorts of factors go into that consideraton.
For example, I don't mind buyiuung gear made in France, Italy or UK. I don't mind buying US or in a lot of cases Mexican made gear. I (gasp!!!) don't even mind buying CANADIAN (I know.... I know.... ) so long as it isn't made of gold like apparently that stuff from the dead bird company is.
I avoid China made gear but for softgoods that's bloody hard to do. Ditto India.
But I wouldn't knowingly buy hard goods from either of those countries, nor would I knowingly do business with a US firm that oursources formerly US provided labor to either country or anything similar.
For example if I found out BD or Omega Pacific, just to pick two random examples, had outsourced cam production to Bangladesh I'd pretty much stop doing business with them; entirely.
DMT
Arc'teryx is mostly made in china.
As is more and more gear.
Not that quality gear can't be made in China, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when companies that pride themselves on this and that sell out to bump up their profit a little.
They make more profit, we still pay the same or more for the product and quality normally takes a hit.
The statistic that I remember from different sources is that the US in most categories ie: pollution, wealth, production, energy use.
We make up about 5% of the world's population but produce about 33% of the world's waste, we make about 33% of the world's goods, and use about 33% of the world's energy. (We also have about 1/3 of the world's wealth).
As was said that doesn't mean we produce the most pollution. I don't know what the statistics are with that.
The statistic that I remember from different sources is that the US in most categories ie: pollution, wealth, production, energy use.
We make up about 5% of the world's population but produce about 33% of the world's waste, we make about 33% of the world's goods, and use about 33% of the world's energy. (We also have about 1/3 of the world's wealth).
As was said that doesn't mean we produce the most pollution. I don't know what the statistics are with that.
So you like your gear to be outsourced to distribute the footprint?
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