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robbovius
Sep 25, 2008, 12:24 PM
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kennoyce wrote: I completly agree. I think that this must be a gunks specific problem. ...*clip*...I guess I will have to go to the gunks sometime to completly understand this.
dude, on a good weather weekend, especially in the warm months, the gunks are a fucking mob scene, with parties waiting in line for the popular climbs, as well as rap stations.
on weekdays, its not so bad.
(This post was edited by robbovius on Sep 25, 2008, 12:25 PM)
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notapplicable
Sep 25, 2008, 12:49 PM
Post #27 of 66
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blueeyedclimber wrote: I think you are an idiot if you don't wear your helmet there, even ESPECIALLY at the base.
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notapplicable
Sep 25, 2008, 1:15 PM
Post #28 of 66
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jmvc wrote: Anybody here ever been thrown off the wall by a falling rope?
I wasn't actually hit but one came within 4 feet of smacking the hell out of me, without a hint of warning, while ropeless at Seneca. (Would nearly being killed by a climbing rope be considered ironic??) I hollered up calling him a "fucking piece of shit..." and the look on his face when he peered over the edge and saw what he had done was priceless. I think he learned a life long lesson that day and was very apologetic.
Oh and just to throw my 2cents in. If the occasion calls for it, I will stack and carry the rope down with me (as awkward as it can be) rather than lower it because the few times I have tried it, I usually end up cleaning the rope of a ledge with loose rock half way down. All people and raps are different though, as long as you don't clean me off the wall with your rope, I don't care how you get it down.
edited spelling
(This post was edited by notapplicable on Sep 25, 2008, 1:15 PM)
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markc
Sep 25, 2008, 1:25 PM
Post #29 of 66
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jmvc wrote: Anybody here ever been thrown off the wall by a falling rope?
Nope. My partner was certainly freaked out when he was leading and someone tossed ropes right next to him and proceeded to smack him with the backup knots while bouncing around on rappel. If that happened on a route close to his limit, I could see it leading to a fall.
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mojomonkey
Sep 25, 2008, 1:28 PM
Post #30 of 66
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notapplicable wrote: I think he learned a life long lesson that day and was very apologetic.
At least he learned a lesson.
Earlier in the year at the Gunks (surprise!) my partner and I were on the rappel superhighway near Three Pines. We were at the lowest of the three stations, setting up for the last rappel when a bundle of rope landed on my partner. I yelled up that they should watch where they toss their rope, that they'd just hit us. They got defensive, telling us they took every precaution before tossing it. Every precaution except looking, I guess. Or yelling "rope". They insisted they had screamed it, that we must not have been able to hear from where they were.
How are we able to hear each other now then?
"Sorry" would have sufficed...
(This post was edited by mojomonkey on Sep 25, 2008, 1:29 PM)
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wonderwoman
Sep 25, 2008, 2:53 PM
Post #31 of 66
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I hear people screaming and swearing at eachother all the time over this at the gunks. I honestly wonder when I'll see a fight break out.
The best time I saw something like this happen was in Acadia Natl Park on the Precipice. I had just finished a climb and was belaying Josh up. There was a party of at least 3 on a ledge somewhere to the left of me. I couldn't see them, but I could hear them bickering:
"Why did you untie me from the anchor?"
"I didn't untie you - you must have never tied in."
"I know I tied in."
Back and forth, back and forth until they're arguing is interrupted by "Hey assholes - Yell rope!!! I'm effing climbing down here!!!"
"Is he talking to us?"
"We didn't even lower the rope yet."
"Wait - look, our rope fell off the ledge."
"I didn't lower the rope - did you?"
When I got back down, they were now complaining over how rude the climber had been to them. The attitude was like 'these things happen during climbing' - ropes just get dropped on you - live with it. Then their unleashed dog went and peed on someone's back pack. Losers.
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sungam
Sep 25, 2008, 4:26 PM
Post #32 of 66
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wonderwoman wrote: I hear people screaming and swearing at eachother all the time over this at the gunks. I honestly wonder when I'll see a fight break out. The best time I saw something like this happen was in Acadia Natl Park on the Precipice. I had just finished a climb and was belaying Josh up. There was a party of at least 3 on a ledge somewhere to the left of me. I couldn't see them, but I could hear them bickering: "Why did you untie me from the anchor?" "I didn't untie you - you must have never tied in." "I know I tied in." Back and forth, back and forth until they're arguing is interrupted by "Hey assholes - Yell rope!!! I'm effing climbing down here!!!" "Is he talking to us?" "We didn't even lower the rope yet." "Wait - look, our rope fell off the ledge." "I didn't lower the rope - did you?" When I got back down, they were now complaining over how rude the climber had been to them. The attitude was like 'these things happen during climbing' - ropes just get dropped on you - live with it. Then their unleashed dog went and peed on someone's back pack. Losers.
Just kidding  But we ARE going during the week, right?
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wonderwoman
Sep 25, 2008, 4:55 PM
Post #34 of 66
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sungam wrote: wonderwoman wrote: I hear people screaming and swearing at eachother all the time over this at the gunks. I honestly wonder when I'll see a fight break out. The best time I saw something like this happen was in Acadia Natl Park on the Precipice. I had just finished a climb and was belaying Josh up. There was a party of at least 3 on a ledge somewhere to the left of me. I couldn't see them, but I could hear them bickering: "Why did you untie me from the anchor?" "I didn't untie you - you must have never tied in." "I know I tied in." Back and forth, back and forth until they're arguing is interrupted by "Hey assholes - Yell rope!!! I'm effing climbing down here!!!" "Is he talking to us?" "We didn't even lower the rope yet." "Wait - look, our rope fell off the ledge." "I didn't lower the rope - did you?" When I got back down, they were now complaining over how rude the climber had been to them. The attitude was like 'these things happen during climbing' - ropes just get dropped on you - live with it. Then their unleashed dog went and peed on someone's back pack. Losers. Gunks meet is cancelled... Just kidding But we ARE going during the week, right?
Unless you're coming during summer, the weekdays would be hard for us. Josh is a teacher and we have a daughter who we have to get off to school everyday. You'll just have to settle for weekend craziness with us!
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blueeyedclimber
Sep 25, 2008, 4:56 PM
Post #35 of 66
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sungam wrote: wonderwoman wrote: I hear people screaming and swearing at eachother all the time over this at the gunks. I honestly wonder when I'll see a fight break out. The best time I saw something like this happen was in Acadia Natl Park on the Precipice. I had just finished a climb and was belaying Josh up. There was a party of at least 3 on a ledge somewhere to the left of me. I couldn't see them, but I could hear them bickering: "Why did you untie me from the anchor?" "I didn't untie you - you must have never tied in." "I know I tied in." Back and forth, back and forth until they're arguing is interrupted by "Hey assholes - Yell rope!!! I'm effing climbing down here!!!" "Is he talking to us?" "We didn't even lower the rope yet." "Wait - look, our rope fell off the ledge." "I didn't lower the rope - did you?" When I got back down, they were now complaining over how rude the climber had been to them. The attitude was like 'these things happen during climbing' - ropes just get dropped on you - live with it. Then their unleashed dog went and peed on someone's back pack. Losers. Gunks meet is cancelled... Just kidding But we ARE going during the week, right?
Sorry Magnus, but some of US have jobs. Therefore, we are relegated to weekend warriors. Let me explain some things about the GUnks, though.
Gunks climbing is WORLD-CLASS and definitely worth the trip. You can be assured to get on tons of classics, sometimes having 7-10 three star routes right next to each other.
.....but, due to the following, you have perhaps the greatest collection of n00bs anywhere on Earth.
1) You have the largest collection of easy-moderate climbing ANYWHERE. It's not just that they are easy routes, but they are GOOD easy routes.
2) short, easy approaches.
3) THe Gunks are a reasonable drive in all directions to some of the most populous regions in the country.
4) Good, easy to follow Guidebooks.
5) free camping (although that may change).
6) cute nearby town with good eats.
7) plenty of guide services.
It is a very accesible crag with quality beginner climbs that are not spread out, which means you may be doing a 3 star 5.10 while Joe n00b is rappelling the classic 5.3 right above you head.
Love it or Hate it, that's the way it is.
Josh
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sungam
Sep 25, 2008, 5:04 PM
Post #36 of 66
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Hmm.
Sounds worth it.
Any sex-shonz where it's all harder and the n00bs runz and hidez.
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mojomonkey
Sep 25, 2008, 5:17 PM
Post #37 of 66
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sungam wrote: Hmm. Sounds worth it. Any sex-shonz where it's all harder and the n00bs runz and hidez.
If you are going for the local climbing scene, you shouldn't be trying to avoid noobs. Besides, I'm a persistent noob - I'll find out wherever you are climbing and hike around the top to drop a rope on you.
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sungam
Sep 25, 2008, 5:19 PM
Post #38 of 66
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mojomonkey wrote: sungam wrote: Hmm. Sounds worth it. Any sex-shonz where it's all harder and the n00bs runz and hidez. If you are going for the local climbing scene, you shouldn't be trying to avoid noobs. Besides, I'm a persistent noob - I'll find out wherever you are climbing and hike around the top to drop a rope on you.
Let's climb High-e!
Who gets 2 kutz teh rope?
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wonderwoman
Sep 25, 2008, 5:32 PM
Post #39 of 66
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sungam wrote: mojomonkey wrote: sungam wrote: Hmm. Sounds worth it. Any sex-shonz where it's all harder and the n00bs runz and hidez. If you are going for the local climbing scene, you shouldn't be trying to avoid noobs. Besides, I'm a persistent noob - I'll find out wherever you are climbing and hike around the top to drop a rope on you. Yore rite. I shud get the full experiance. Let's climb High-e! Who gets 2 kutz teh rope?
I still haven't climbed High E!!! I'll rope up with ya on that.
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sungam
Sep 25, 2008, 6:40 PM
Post #40 of 66
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wonderwoman wrote: sungam wrote: mojomonkey wrote: sungam wrote: Hmm. Sounds worth it. Any sex-shonz where it's all harder and the n00bs runz and hidez. If you are going for the local climbing scene, you shouldn't be trying to avoid noobs. Besides, I'm a persistent noob - I'll find out wherever you are climbing and hike around the top to drop a rope on you. Yore rite. I shud get the full experiance. Let's climb High-e! Who gets 2 kutz teh rope? I still haven't climbed High E!!! I'll rope up with ya on that. 
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wonderwoman
Sep 25, 2008, 6:41 PM
Post #41 of 66
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sungam wrote: wonderwoman wrote: sungam wrote: mojomonkey wrote: sungam wrote: Hmm. Sounds worth it. Any sex-shonz where it's all harder and the n00bs runz and hidez. If you are going for the local climbing scene, you shouldn't be trying to avoid noobs. Besides, I'm a persistent noob - I'll find out wherever you are climbing and hike around the top to drop a rope on you. Yore rite. I shud get the full experiance. Let's climb High-e! Who gets 2 kutz teh rope? I still haven't climbed High E!!! I'll rope up with ya on that. Who get's 2 second it?
I'll arm wrestle you for the money pitch.
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sungam
Sep 25, 2008, 6:48 PM
Post #42 of 66
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wonderwoman wrote: sungam wrote: wonderwoman wrote: sungam wrote: mojomonkey wrote: sungam wrote: Hmm. Sounds worth it. Any sex-shonz where it's all harder and the n00bs runz and hidez. If you are going for the local climbing scene, you shouldn't be trying to avoid noobs. Besides, I'm a persistent noob - I'll find out wherever you are climbing and hike around the top to drop a rope on you. Yore rite. I shud get the full experiance. Let's climb High-e! Who gets 2 kutz teh rope? I still haven't climbed High E!!! I'll rope up with ya on that. Who get's 2 second it? I'll arm wrestle you for the money pitch.
As long as bluey doesn't jump in and shrukin me.
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blueeyedclimber
Sep 25, 2008, 10:08 PM
Post #43 of 66
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sungam wrote: wonderwoman wrote: sungam wrote: mojomonkey wrote: sungam wrote: Hmm. Sounds worth it. Any sex-shonz where it's all harder and the n00bs runz and hidez. If you are going for the local climbing scene, you shouldn't be trying to avoid noobs. Besides, I'm a persistent noob - I'll find out wherever you are climbing and hike around the top to drop a rope on you. Yore rite. I shud get the full experiance. Let's climb High-e! Who gets 2 kutz teh rope? I still haven't climbed High E!!! I'll rope up with ya on that. Who get's 2 second it?
I'll third! And when I fall off that hard section, have that knife at the ready. Just make sure it's a good toss, not some girly toss.
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blueeyedclimber
Sep 25, 2008, 10:11 PM
Post #44 of 66
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sungam wrote: Hmm. Sounds worth it. Any sex-shonz where it's all harder and the n00bs runz and hidez.
Yes, and I know where they are
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blueeyedclimber
Sep 25, 2008, 10:12 PM
Post #45 of 66
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sungam wrote: wonderwoman wrote: sungam wrote: wonderwoman wrote: sungam wrote: mojomonkey wrote: sungam wrote: Hmm. Sounds worth it. Any sex-shonz where it's all harder and the n00bs runz and hidez. If you are going for the local climbing scene, you shouldn't be trying to avoid noobs. Besides, I'm a persistent noob - I'll find out wherever you are climbing and hike around the top to drop a rope on you. Yore rite. I shud get the full experiance. Let's climb High-e! Who gets 2 kutz teh rope? I still haven't climbed High E!!! I'll rope up with ya on that. Who get's 2 second it? I'll arm wrestle you for the money pitch. Oooh, wrastlin' eh? As long as bluey doesn't jump in and shrukin me.
I practically invented "wrastlin' for it", so be prepared for some rug burns and atomic wedgies.
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sungam
Sep 26, 2008, 11:20 AM
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My buddy got some funny looks when he went to the chemist asking for some burn cream for the rug burn on his face. And when he told them he had been "man thong wrestling"...
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robbovius
Sep 26, 2008, 4:11 PM
Post #47 of 66
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wonderwoman wrote: sungam wrote: mojomonkey wrote: sungam wrote: Hmm. Sounds worth it. Any sex-shonz where it's all harder and the n00bs runz and hidez. If you are going for the local climbing scene, you shouldn't be trying to avoid noobs. Besides, I'm a persistent noob - I'll find out wherever you are climbing and hike around the top to drop a rope on you. Yore rite. I shud get the full experiance. Let's climb High-e! Who gets 2 kutz teh rope? I still haven't climbed High E!!! I'll rope up with ya on that.
Tiff get outta town, you havent'? I thot you guys were gunks pros.
the top pitch is exhilarating.
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wonderwoman
Sep 26, 2008, 4:13 PM
Post #48 of 66
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robbovius wrote: wonderwoman wrote: sungam wrote: mojomonkey wrote: sungam wrote: Hmm. Sounds worth it. Any sex-shonz where it's all harder and the n00bs runz and hidez. If you are going for the local climbing scene, you shouldn't be trying to avoid noobs. Besides, I'm a persistent noob - I'll find out wherever you are climbing and hike around the top to drop a rope on you. Yore rite. I shud get the full experiance. Let's climb High-e! Who gets 2 kutz teh rope? I still haven't climbed High E!!! I'll rope up with ya on that. Tiff get outta town, you havent'? I thot you guys were gunks pros. the top pitch is exhilarating.
Somehow I seemed to have skipped all the easy to moderate classics!
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sungam
Sep 26, 2008, 5:26 PM
Post #49 of 66
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robbovius wrote: wonderwoman wrote: sungam wrote: mojomonkey wrote: sungam wrote: Hmm. Sounds worth it. Any sex-shonz where it's all harder and the n00bs runz and hidez. If you are going for the local climbing scene, you shouldn't be trying to avoid noobs. Besides, I'm a persistent noob - I'll find out wherever you are climbing and hike around the top to drop a rope on you. Yore rite. I shud get the full experiance. Let's climb High-e! Who gets 2 kutz teh rope? I still haven't climbed High E!!! I'll rope up with ya on that. Tiff get outta town, you havent'? I thot you guys were gunks pros. the top pitch is exhilarating. Magnus will enjoy leading it.
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rgold
Sep 26, 2008, 6:17 PM
Post #50 of 66
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The sad reality, in my experience, is that lowering is not necessarily better than throwing.
1. In the Gunks, a lowered rope almost never makes it down, and once it has hung on ledges and/or features, it becomes a source of dislodged material.
2. Some of the time, a lowered rope hangs while all the slack accumulates and then the whole pile falls. The result is the same as a toss with lots of extra material thrown in. Of course, this typically happens after the rappellers have shouted their warning, so people below are taken unawares.
3. Most of the time, when a rappeller gets to a hung-up mess, they just toss it off the ledge/tree/flake/whatever. The result is a thrown rope.
4. Getting hit by a thrown rope while leading is certainly unpleasant (it has happened to me), but having a rope lowered on you with the attendant falling stuff is pretty bad too (this too has happened to me).
The only really good solution is for the rappeller to carry the whole rope down with them, something almost no one wants to bother doing. Actually, a much better solution is to lower the first person down. I've never seen anyone do this.
The real problem is that people really don't care much whether or not they hit someone with a rope, or else they are so spaced-out that they are unaware of the obvious issues. Dingus mentioned something I rarely see in the Gunks: actually waiting for a response before chucking the ropes. Most people shout rope and throw it simultaneously, providing an almost entirely wortheless warning to a leader directly below but out of sight.
With the large number of side-by-side climbs and corresponding multiple rappel paths, shouting rope without identifying the climb may be worthless in an environment that has multiple parties in different locations all shouting tossing the lines at more or less the same time. An even if there aren't a lot of parties, the acoustics may simply be inadequate for people below to hear the warning.
Honestly, I don't see any good solution to this issue, because at heart the problem is either cavalier attitudes or self-absorbtion (or both) on the part of parties, and I'm not optimistic about that changing.
It would help if people kept to the official Preserve Rappel routes, which (except for the first few) avoid climbing routes. At least if you are on these routes, you know (or should know) to expect someone to dump a rope on you from above, and won't put yourself in any positions that would make this more than an annoyance. But a tree with slings two feet from the belay stance you have declared to be the top of the route seems pretty irresistable to most parties, so there is litlle reason to hope that that people would suffer the tiny extra inconvenience of sticking to the bolted rappel lines.
As far as I know, there have yet to be any serious consequences of rope-throwing/lowering, but no doubt it is just a matter of time...
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