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TJGoSurf
Mar 26, 2009, 9:59 PM
Post #26 of 42
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RockKlimbing/?v=1&t=search&ch=web&pub=groups&sec=group&slk=3
http://www.meetup.com/The-Sacramento-Rock-Climbing-Meetup/
http://www.meetup.com/SacramentoHikingandAdventureGroup/
dont say i never did anything for you.
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chossmonkey
Mar 26, 2009, 10:16 PM
Post #27 of 42
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TheSl0th wrote: so, i've been taking a low key trad course, but im still not satisfied with my placement techniques. how doable do you guys think setting up a top-rope then rappelling down, sport climbing up tied to both top-rope and a sport lead. placing gear and falling on it (on purpose) to test placement and stability. keep in mind im tied in to a top rope as well. (this will require two belayers and a set of different commands for each. i think its do-able, i just want another opinion. granted i will be training using this method for a while and not just making a fast transition to trad/multi pitch. essentially, i want to lead trad but need to perfect gear placement before that ever happens. good plan?
You can aid climb by yourself. Self belay with clovehitches on lockers or a Grigri.
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pornstarr
Mar 26, 2009, 10:41 PM
Post #28 of 42
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you should probably ask jt512...
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chossmonkey
Mar 27, 2009, 10:26 AM
Post #29 of 42
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pornstarr wrote: you should probably ask jt512...
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bill413
Mar 27, 2009, 12:36 PM
Post #30 of 42
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TJGoSurf wrote: Place your gear jerk on it in every conceiveable motion
Place a cam, jerk it back & forth - it walks in.
Place a piece, pull on it in the anticipated directions. Study how it's holding. But mindlessly whipping it back and forth will just fray cables (and scratch up the nice shiny metal). Oh - and do be aware that you don't always get the anticipated direction of pull right (oh - the traverse now goes left...oops).
Rest of TJGoSurf's advice is good.
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TJGoSurf
Mar 27, 2009, 5:30 PM
Post #31 of 42
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Maybe you understood that wrong, you have to see if it will walk out due to normal motion of the rope moving.
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hafilax
Mar 27, 2009, 6:14 PM
Post #32 of 42
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Just don't look at the piece while you're bounce testing it if it could hit you in the face if it pulls.
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cracklover
Mar 27, 2009, 6:30 PM
Post #33 of 42
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Mock leading sucks. You say you've got a good mentor, does he like your gear placements? Do you doubt his judgement (maybe he's just being nice)? If he says you're good to go, but you don't feel ready, just keep doing what you're doing until you're ready. Mock leading will *not* get you ready, it'll just make you feel like a sad sack of shit when you go try to lead that thing you just mock led and start berating yourself for feeling like you're over your head when you "shouldn't" feel that way.
When you're ready, you're ready. And mock leading will only make that transition more confusing.
Plus, the system you described for mock leading sounds utterly ridiculous. If you must do it, do it right.
My advice, keep seconding until it clicks, and you realize you must start leading. Then find something ridiculously easy and lead it under the watchful eye of your mentor (or whoever). Bingo, now you're a leader. You've started the game - it's still a long process ahead of you, so enjoy it!
GO
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cracklover
Mar 27, 2009, 6:32 PM
Post #34 of 42
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Oh, and as for aiding, I'd save that until you have a dozen or so easy leads under your belt.
Cheers!
GO
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patmay81
Mar 27, 2009, 7:18 PM
Post #35 of 42
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chossmonkey wrote: You can aid climb by yourself. Self belay with clovehitches on lockers or a Grigri.
nah, stick to following as many trad climbs as possible, playing with gear whenever you have free time, clean aid with a top rope back up, and maybe some mock leads
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TJGoSurf
Mar 27, 2009, 7:42 PM
Post #36 of 42
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Possibly a flaming post, but try trad climbing placing gear. Its a tad more forgiving.
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chossmonkey
Mar 29, 2009, 1:03 PM
Post #37 of 42
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TJGoSurf wrote: Maybe you understood that wrong, you have to see if it will walk out due to normal motion of the rope moving.
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chossmonkey
Mar 29, 2009, 1:11 PM
Post #38 of 42
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cracklover wrote: Oh, and as for aiding, I'd save that until you have a dozen or so easy leads under your belt.
You are wrong. Doing easy aid is the best way to learn to lead. That is how many guides teach lead climbing.
You place lots of pieces. You see what will hold and won't hold more than bodyweight and have plenty of pieces backing up the leader should they fall.
The only problem with aiding to learn to lead is the large amount of gear you need which most new leaders don't have access to.
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c4c
Mar 29, 2009, 1:23 PM
Post #39 of 42
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pornstarr wrote: you should probably ask jt512...
Does he still climb even?
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jaablink
Mar 29, 2009, 2:22 PM
Post #40 of 42
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Mock leads / rehearsals are good for learning to understand your gear and what size fits were. This will also give you foresight in time on about what size fits what crack before you get to it . Cleaning for a proficient leader is very good to see what someone else does in what situation. Practicing placements low to the ground is good, understand the direction the gear is most effective - in case of a hypothetical fall. Practice building anchors low to the ground and then clip into them and understand how the pieces are working, rope management on hanging belays, setup directional and redirects - hypothetical mock situations in different locations throughout your training grounds.
Learn to think and adapt on the fly ….. When you are ready to do your first lead, you should lead a climb you know, that is well below your grade, and repeat.
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cracklover
Mar 30, 2009, 2:25 PM
Post #41 of 42
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chossmonkey wrote: cracklover wrote: Oh, and as for aiding, I'd save that until you have a dozen or so easy leads under your belt. You are wrong. Doing easy aid is the best way to learn to lead. That is how many guides teach lead climbing. You place lots of pieces. You see what will hold and won't hold more than bodyweight and have plenty of pieces backing up the leader should they fall. The only problem with aiding to learn to lead is the large amount of gear you need which most new leaders don't have access to.
The other problem is that after the first one, your partner will never want to belay you on aid again, and you'll need to work out your solo aid system. IMO, when you haven't even worked out your partner-belayed free system, it's too soon to rely on you yourself alone to get everything right.
I'm not saying it won't work, but I do think it'd be better for the new leader to wait until they have a bunch of free (and easy) belayed leads under their belt before getting into aid practice.
GO
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devkrev
Mar 30, 2009, 2:51 PM
Post #42 of 42
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cracklover wrote: Mock leading sucks. You say you've got a good mentor, does he like your gear placements? Do you doubt his judgement (maybe he's just being nice)? If he says you're good to go, but you don't feel ready, just keep doing what you're doing until you're ready. Mock leading will *not* get you ready, it'll just make you feel like a sad sack of shit when you go try to lead that thing you just mock led and start berating yourself for feeling like you're over your head when you "shouldn't" feel that way. When you're ready, you're ready. And mock leading will only make that transition more confusing. Plus, the system you described for mock leading sounds utterly ridiculous. If you must do it, do it right. My advice, keep seconding until it clicks, and you realize you must start leading. Then find something ridiculously easy and lead it under the watchful eye of your mentor (or whoever). Bingo, now you're a leader. You've started the game - it's still a long process ahead of you, so enjoy it! GO
I completely agree with cracklover. Leading is about proper mental attitudes and being able to perform in the proper headspace.
There is so much more mentally involved with leading than just the logistics of gear-placements.
Leading makes you a better leader, you can play with gear close to the ground and do all kinds of top-rope shenanigans, but when it comes down to it, leading is the best way to become more comfortable with leading.
I believe in challenging yourself physically and mentally, but never at the same time. So find something very physically easy, because those mental bites will be quite a bit to chew.
Leading is about consequences, and if you take those consequences away, the whole game changes.
I would be worried about being too comfortable with gear as well, most of the time, whether or not the gear holds has nothing to do with a fall consequence.
Not dealing with what makes leading hard won't make it any easier.
dev
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