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majid_sabet
Jun 1, 2009, 8:45 PM
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epoch wrote: majid_sabet wrote: epoch wrote: Extend your attachment to the anchor as far as you can with what you have on you. Then squirm, squeeze, strain, and pull with all your might to stretch out as far as you can. Cut the rope. Then de-core your rope and tie the core strands together to complete multiple rappels to the dirt. There was a thread aboot this not too long ago. Majid/Angry... Could either of you expand on this?  I am going to do a 200 footer core rap in the next few weeks and post in the Lab. How many core strands? (not total, but the series that you'll be passing through your device?)
I would think; 10 meter of 10 mm rope gives me 40-50 meter of 3-5 core which makes it in to 200 feet of rap.
I will overlap each core by 6 inches so each knot can pass thru and rap via one large locking biner only. No ATC no 8 will be used but I may ask someone on top to back up belay me via ATC or GG.
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GeneralZon
Jun 1, 2009, 8:45 PM
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marc801 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: you could use a locking biner and few wrap on the axis line to rap on the loaded rope... WTF are you talking about?
I believe it is the Bachman Knot
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djlachelt
Jun 1, 2009, 8:46 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: marc801 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: you could use a locking biner and few wrap on the axis line to rap on the loaded rope... ? WTF are you asking me ?
I don't understand what you meant either Majid. Are you talking about a Bachman knot? But that's not a way to "rap on the loaded rope" AFAIK. Please clarify.
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majid_sabet
Jun 1, 2009, 8:49 PM
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irregularpanda wrote: majid_sabet wrote: I am going to do a 200 footer core rap in the next few weeks and post in the Lab. Kind of like how you designed, created, and tested ovals in order to make a better biner that wouldn't fail because "the pin doesn't engage the notch"?
I did not forget about that project and spend near $ 700 in getting hydraulic puller so do not worry, I will post it and I will not allow RCers take me down when I know I am right about something.
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majid_sabet
Jun 1, 2009, 8:51 PM
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djlachelt wrote: majid_sabet wrote: marc801 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: you could use a locking biner and few wrap on the axis line to rap on the loaded rope... ? WTF are you asking me ? I don't understand what you meant either Majid. Are you talking about a Bachman knot? But that's not a way to "rap on the loaded rope" AFAIK. Please clarify.
no, use the biner and the main rope that is loaded and nothing else.
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majid_sabet
Jun 1, 2009, 8:52 PM
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GeneralZon wrote: marc801 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: you could use a locking biner and few wrap on the axis line to rap on the loaded rope... WTF are you talking about? I believe it is the Bachman Knot [image]http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-97-61/fig4-22.gif[/image]
I am not too sure if what you are showing will work but my setup does not look like it.
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desertwanderer81
Jun 1, 2009, 9:12 PM
Post #32 of 174
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majid_sabet wrote: you could use a locking biner and few wrap on the axis line to rap on the loaded rope with a backup prusicc above as safety.
Fail.
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majid_sabet
Jun 1, 2009, 11:04 PM
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desertwanderer81 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: you could use a locking biner and few wrap on the axis line to rap on the loaded rope with a backup prusicc above as safety. Fail.
what do you mean fail ?
what did you do and how did you do it ?
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desertwanderer81
Jun 1, 2009, 11:07 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: desertwanderer81 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: you could use a locking biner and few wrap on the axis line to rap on the loaded rope with a backup prusicc above as safety. Fail. what do you mean fail ? what did you do and how did you do it ?
You fail at giving advice. How the hell are you going to get the wraps on your carabiner when the rope is already weighted?? Have you ever tried doing something like this with ~200 lbs on the rope?.....
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irregularpanda
Jun 1, 2009, 11:12 PM
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desertwanderer81 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: desertwanderer81 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: you could use a locking biner and few wrap on the axis line to rap on the loaded rope with a backup prusicc above as safety. Fail. what do you mean fail ? what did you do and how did you do it ? You fail at giving advice. How the hell are you going to get the wraps on your carabiner when the rope is already weighted?? Have you ever tried doing something like this with ~200 lbs on the rope?.....
He does fail at giving advice, but one way to do this is by attaching a prussic to the rope, creating a quick 2:1 or 3:1 off the anchor, which would give you slack enough to wrap the spine of the locker.
You would have to pull the rope upwards, of course, and the best way to do that would be your entire body weight.
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desertwanderer81
Jun 1, 2009, 11:23 PM
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That's a pretty intense setup....it may or may not work depending on the weight of the climbers, the friction, and whether the dead weight is caught on anything down below....
There is also the problem that the friction on your carabiner is going to be intense and impossible to control how fast you will go if at all.
Overall this technique is fail.
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majid_sabet
Jun 1, 2009, 11:26 PM
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desertwanderer81 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: desertwanderer81 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: you could use a locking biner and few wrap on the axis line to rap on the loaded rope with a backup prusicc above as safety. Fail. what do you mean fail ? what did you do and how did you do it ? You fail at giving advice. How the hell are you going to get the wraps on your carabiner when the rope is already weighted?? Have you ever tried doing something like this with ~200 lbs on the rope?.....
you are going to be my next belly dancer in RC, just watch
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desertwanderer81
Jun 1, 2009, 11:30 PM
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And you are a sexist, ignorant, stupid person. You give dangerous advice to people.
If someone were to follow your advice, you would get that person killed. You have a complete lack of knowledge in physics.
Your only purpose is to serve as comic relief for those who know enough not to take you seriously.
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majid_sabet
Jun 1, 2009, 11:47 PM
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irregularpanda wrote: desertwanderer81 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: desertwanderer81 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: you could use a locking biner and few wrap on the axis line to rap on the loaded rope with a backup prusicc above as safety. Fail. what do you mean fail ? what did you do and how did you do it ? You fail at giving advice. How the hell are you going to get the wraps on your carabiner when the rope is already weighted?? Have you ever tried doing something like this with ~200 lbs on the rope?..... He does fail at giving advice, but one way to do this is by attaching a prussic to the rope, creating a quick 2:1 or 3:1 off the anchor, which would give you slack enough to wrap the spine of the locker. You would have to pull the rope upwards, of course, and the best way to do that would be your entire body weight.
if you could do a 2:1 or 3:1 ,it would be easier and nicer when you have extra stuff but I have done it by jamming the biner in to loaded rope a few times to get the right friction. You can also do double or triple biner. Basically, you use one biner on top in clockwise wrap and one in bottom with counter clockwise and so fort then you link them together and use the last lower one with a sling to attach it to your harness. On the biner wrap, you could test it and set it to very slow speed at the ledge by putting your weight on it and see how fast you go before take off. If it is too fast then you add more wrap to get the right speed. The multi biner warp is the best way assuming you got tons of biner cause you could wrap each biner one or twice instead of 5-6 times on one biner. Ultimately, you want to go supper slow or basically, force yourself downward because you do not want to slam in to the dying pig at the bottom of the rope causing the entire anchor to pop. There is also a possibility to even make a biner break bar setup with one or two biner on a loaded rope but then knowing how many biner to add is the main issue .
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Jun 1, 2009, 11:55 PM)
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majid_sabet
Jun 1, 2009, 11:50 PM
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desertwanderer81 wrote: And you are a sexist, ignorant, stupid person. You give dangerous advice to people. If someone were to follow your advice, you would get that person killed. You have a complete lack of knowledge in physics. Your only purpose is to serve as comic relief for those who know enough not to take you seriously.
DID you even take a rope and a biner to try this at home ?
DID you?
I know you did not
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USnavy
Jun 2, 2009, 12:03 AM
Post #41 of 174
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irregularpanda wrote: majid_sabet wrote: I am going to do a 200 footer core rap in the next few weeks and post in the Lab. Kind of like how you designed, created, and tested ovals in order to make a better biner that wouldn't fail because "the pin doesn't engage the notch"?
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TJGoSurf
Jun 2, 2009, 12:13 AM
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Why not freebase it?
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desertwanderer81
Jun 2, 2009, 12:16 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: irregularpanda wrote: desertwanderer81 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: desertwanderer81 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: you could use a locking biner and few wrap on the axis line to rap on the loaded rope with a backup prusicc above as safety. Fail. what do you mean fail ? what did you do and how did you do it ? You fail at giving advice. How the hell are you going to get the wraps on your carabiner when the rope is already weighted?? Have you ever tried doing something like this with ~200 lbs on the rope?..... He does fail at giving advice, but one way to do this is by attaching a prussic to the rope, creating a quick 2:1 or 3:1 off the anchor, which would give you slack enough to wrap the spine of the locker. You would have to pull the rope upwards, of course, and the best way to do that would be your entire body weight. if you could do a 2:1 or 3:1 ,it would be easier and nicer when you have extra stuff but I have done it by jamming the biner in to loaded rope a few times to get the right friction. You can also do double or triple biner. Basically, you use one biner on top in clockwise wrap and one in bottom with counter clockwise and so fort then you link them together and use the last lower one with a sling to attach it to your harness. On the biner wrap, you could test it and set it to very slow speed at the ledge by putting your weight on it and see how fast you go before take off. If it is too fast then you add more wrap to get the right speed. The multi biner warp is the best way assuming you got tons of biner cause you could wrap each biner one or twice instead of 5-6 times on one biner. Ultimately, you want to go supper slow or basically, force yourself downward because you do not want to slam in to the dying pig at the bottom of the rope causing the entire anchor to pop. There is also a possibility to even make a biner break bar setup with one or two biner on a loaded rope but then knowing how many biner to add is the main issue .
^^^^ will get someone killed. Prussicing down is infinately safer and more controled. Worst case senario is that it ultimately takes you an extra 10-15 minutes to get down.
And yes, I have done extensive work with pickoff manuevers with ascenders. One of the hardest things possible in this area is to do a pickoff with someone unconsious on the rope. A person weighs a LOT when it's just dead weight like that.....
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bill413
Jun 2, 2009, 12:18 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: GeneralZon wrote: marc801 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: you could use a locking biner and few wrap on the axis line to rap on the loaded rope... WTF are you talking about? I believe it is the Bachman Knot
In addition, it doesn't strike me that army field manuals on knots should be too obscure for someone of reasonable intelligence.
Sigh - so - given the sources illustrating that knot, that it has been used (including by myself, although not frequently) for many years, I think that it will work. Tough for you.
Oh - and in a sl. later post you go on about wrapping the rope around not just one, but several biners in succession. For each wrap you have to haul rope up. Remember, you have on the order of 200 pounds on the other end.
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rocknice2
Jun 2, 2009, 12:19 AM
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Majid
Please post a video of how you decore a 10m lenght of rope with only what a climber would carry on a multi-pitch
No scissors
Leatherman? Would be better without one, a lot of climbers only carry a knife.
biners, prussic, belay device chalk, teeth, cams, nuttool, nuts all OK to use
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irregularpanda
Jun 2, 2009, 12:22 AM
Post #46 of 174
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majid_sabet wrote: if you could do a 2:1 or 3:1 ,it would be easier and nicer when you have extra stuff but I have done it by jamming the biner in to loaded rope a few times to get the right friction. You can also do double or triple biner. Basically, you use one biner on top in clockwise wrap and one in bottom with counter clockwise and so fort then you link them together and use the last lower one with a sling to attach it to your harness. On the biner wrap, you could test it and set it to very slow speed at the ledge by putting your weight on it and see how fast you go before take off. If it is too fast then you add more wrap to get the right speed. The multi biner warp is the best way assuming you got tons of biner cause you could wrap each biner one or twice instead of 5-6 times on one biner. Ultimately, you want to go supper slow or basically, force yourself downward because you do not want to slam in to the dying pig at the bottom of the rope causing the entire anchor to pop. There is also a possibility to even make a biner break bar setup with one or two biner on a loaded rope but then knowing how many biner to add is the main issue .
Fail at explaining, but since people have talked this to death already (that is, your failure) I'll put it into a graphic representation.
So again, you fail. You took a thread, explained something cryptically and wrong, turned it into your little pissing match, and failed at explaining a relatively simple concept.
Also, this is not the safest, simplest, or easiest solution to this problem.
hence....Fail.
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bill413
Jun 2, 2009, 12:39 AM
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rocknice2 wrote: ... nuts ...
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hafilax
Jun 2, 2009, 12:56 AM
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desertwanderer81 wrote: Prussicing down is infinately safer and more controled. Worst case senario is that it ultimately takes you an extra 10-15 minutes to get down.
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rocknice2
Jun 2, 2009, 12:57 AM
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bill413 wrote: rocknice2 wrote: ... nuts ... pocket full of pebbles and a shoulder full of pre tied slings Majid has those to carry on a climb? |
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desertwanderer81
Jun 2, 2009, 1:04 AM
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hafilax wrote: desertwanderer81 wrote: Prussicing down is infinately safer and more controled. Worst case senario is that it ultimately takes you an extra 10-15 minutes to get down. Because of harness hang syndrome you may not have that much time if the person is unconscious.
The first rule of any rescue is not to make more patients.....
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