I would be interested in hearing from climbers that don't lead climb yet, but are thinking about making the transition. What would help you make the transition from top rope, into leading sport or trad climbing? Whats is getting your way or keeping you from taking the next step and getting started? Gear? Fear? Whats the catch??

Gear isn't the problem for me. I can borrow quickdraws from people. The problem is that I only TR like 5.8 and according to one of my climber friends I need to at least be climbing at 5.9/5.10 before I even consider leading. He said that I will be climbing three grades below my usual TR climb, which I figured anyway.

But I really, really want to lead. When I get back to school, I plan to do a TON of TR to build my skill/endurance. What I'd started doing before I left school for summer was simply asking for quite a bit of slack. I can't stand the feeling of being "carried" up the wall. And plus, that will hopefully get me used to the feeling of being on lead (in a sense, though I know it's no substitute, really).

Gear isn't the problem for me. I can borrow quickdraws from people. The problem is that I only TR like 5.8 and according to one of my climber friends I need to at least be climbing at 5.9/5.10 before I even consider leading. He said that I will be climbing three grades below my usual TR climb, which I figured anyway.

Excuses are what hold non-climbers back.

Climbers find reasons to lead. Not excuses to top rope.

Sorry, just injecting some tough love into the thread.

If you want to lead. LEAD. Stop making excuses.

DMT

So if you are GOING to lead, how will you prepare yourself between now and then? How are you going to assume responsibility for your own butt? Will you take the steps necessary (already have?) to be informed and prepared?

Those friends of yours aren't going to do it for you. Nobody here can take your decisions for you. This is ALL YOU.

Leading isn't rocket science but it is serious nevertheless. You could die. THAT is the responsibility I am referring to - understanding and then acting in a manner 100% responsible for your own butt and each and every decision you take.

No blaming the buddies for anything, before or after. Its all you.

DMT

My friends seem to be hesitant to allow it when we're outside simply because they don't want me to have to clean the route / clip in at the top to go off belay. (Sorry if that's incorrect.) Bail biner, yes? I'm still a little confused as to what one does at the top of a route when it's completed even though I've definitely googled it quite a bit / seen a friend do it before. Can someone explain?

I don't mean to hijack the thread.

i just started leading last weekend and it was a complete success. before that, every time i would toprope, i would try to do it perfectly and think "what would i have to do if i was leading this," and then if i got really scared i would think "there's no way i'm ready to lead if i can't even toprope this route easily." not necessarily true though. my very first lead, i toproped the route first. i didn't think it was necessarily easy on toprope, so i was a little scared to lead it. when i led it, i found i climbed it better and more easily. you focus more when you're on lead. and surprisingly, i worry less about falling when i'm on lead. i just try and stay focused.

then again, there was another route that i toproped first, didn't fall, and then fell on lead.

My friends seem to be hesitant to allow it when we're outside simply because they don't want me to have to clean the route / clip in at the top to go off belay. (Sorry if that's incorrect.) Bail biner, yes? I'm still a little confused as to what one does at the top of a route when it's completed even though I've definitely googled it quite a bit / seen a friend do it before. Can someone explain?

I don't mean to hijack the thread.

I'm getting a sense from your question above that you need to have someone walk you through the leading process a little bit more. Typically, in the scenario you describe above, you would either walk off, rappel, or lower off, and experience would tell you which one made sense for the particular situation. I'm guessing you'd be solid with the first option but unclear about options 2 and 3. If you search around on this site a bit, you'll see that a number of folks have gotten badly hurt or worse by lowering or rappelling incorrectly. As someone else said above, it's all pretty simple, but if you get it wrong, there is often no second chance. So your friends are right to be worried about taking you off belay and hoping you figure it out.

I'd consider reading all you can about this if you learn that way (plenty of books on learning to lead out there), but either way go out a time or two with an experienced climber or climbing guide who will show you how to do it safely.

are they making excuses, or are you???

Contrary to popular practice, the internet is a terrible place to learn how to climb. While books might be great, they're also terrible for learning on when you have no point of reference.

Find an experienced friend who is patient and have that person show you the "ropes". Have them show you how to learn all of the skills etc. THEN read some books, etc and refine your skills and knowledge.

Contrary to popular practice, the internet is a terrible place to learn how to climb. While books might be great, they're also terrible for learning on when you have no point of reference.

Find an experienced friend who is patient and have that person show you the "ropes". Have them show you how to learn all of the skills etc. THEN read some books, etc and refine your skills and knowledge.

I know I've still got quite a bit to learn. I need to get some books on sport climbing. As of now, I've only relied on Google and this forums search function.

Ah, I shoulda spoted the troll earlier.

Cheers
DMT

I'm not a troll. :( I've climbed before, and often. However, considering I can't climb at the moment, reading up on climbing is really my only option. I feel offended. I would NEVER rely on books alone to learn about sport climbing (or climbing in general). I'm home for the summer where there isn't a climbing gym or rock in sight. Please give me a break. :/ I've seen people climb a sport route and trad, but I'm not an expert, I'll give you that.

i just looked up z-clipping and i can't see how that is even remotely possible! to do that you would have to be clipping one bolt when you haven't even climbed past the last bolt, right?? seems like the bolts would have to be REALLY close together!

I'm not a troll. :( I've climbed before, and often. However, considering I can't climb at the moment, reading up on climbing is really my only option. I feel offended. I would NEVER rely on books alone to learn about sport climbing (or climbing in general). But if I can use it to gather tidbits of information while I'm not able to climb, I will. Would I say, "Oh, I've read 2 books on sport climbing, wanna go outside tomorrow so I can lead?" Hell no. It's just that I'm home for the summer where there isn't a climbing gym or rock in sight. Please give me a break. :/ I've seen people climb a sport route and trad, but I'm not an expert, I'll give you that.

i've got to say that i learned a fair bit of what i know from reading books and the stuff posted here. learning from an experienced climbing buddy is great, but in my 18 months of climbing i've been given terrible, potentially dangerous advice several times by people who i'd have expected to know better. the only reason i knew it was bad advice is that i'd read enough to recognise it as such.

learning from books alone isn't ideal, but learning from "experienced climbers" of unknown competency isn't ideal either, imho. and often the only way to know whether your teacher is competent is to know enough independently of what they've taught you to make that call.

hell, there's a thread here that i was just reading where a guide was posting advice i wouldn't follow.

steve

i just looked up z-clipping and i can't see how that is even remotely possible! to do that you would have to be clipping one bolt when you haven't even climbed past the last bolt, right?? seems like the bolts would have to be REALLY close together!

...It's just that I'm home for the summer where there isn't a climbing gym or rock in sight...

Where are you?

ah, that sucks. any chance of some buildering? have a wander around town and you might strike it lucky, find a few structures worth playing around on...

steve

Excuses are what hold non-climbers back.

Climbers find reasons to lead. Not excuses to top rope.

Sorry, just injecting some tough love into the thread.

If you want to lead. LEAD. Stop making excuses.

DMT

Excuses are what hold non-climbers back.

Climbers find reasons to lead. Not excuses to top rope.

Sorry, just injecting some tough love into the thread.

If you want to lead. LEAD. Stop making excuses.

DMT

Dingus knows best.

I concur.

Sarah, I garentee there is something with weekend if not daytrip distance from you!
There always is, in the south. (I made that up)

I'm sure there is, but when one only has their own two feet, it's more like a week-long trip. I try to go up to Birmingham at least once a month to get some climbing in. Sometimes I'm successful, sometimes not. Dunno how July's going to look for that.

Indeed I also suffer from "no care syndrome". Find someone who likes climbing and has a car, and get them to take you.
You're only 4 hours from HP40, it seems.

Words - have you thought about setting up your own climbing wall? Yeah - it's not like real rock, but at least it would be something.

Yep. Problem: The grandparents are moving out of this house in August when I leave, so I can't do much as far as building a wall is concerned. I've got other options I'm considering. (Rock Rings, for example, which were mentioned to me in another post.)

Sport Climbing 101 by Chris Lindner was helpful for me. I am transitioning from tr to sport climbing.

Unless you take action, test, question why, and verify your information (preferable with an AMGA Certified Guide)...

WordsVerbatim, In the end, when you reach the anchor bolts, and it’s cold or raining, and your a hundred feet off the deck…. You will realize that the world has no books, no forums, no friends, no guides (not usually anyway) and it’s all up to you and your previous use of Personal responsibility.

Have you tried cleaning yet? Tried it hanging only a few feet off the ground?

If you haven’t, set up a few fake bolts in your garage and hang there a while. What would you want to do to be certain you where safe to go off belay? How safe? How Redundant? Ask a thousand what if’s and try to cover all your bases. What happens if I drop the rope while off belay? Can I prevent this? What if I rappel and one length of rope doesn’t reach the ground? What if I don’t realize it? Would I fall off? How could I prevent this? Ask yourself a MILLIION WHAT IF’s, and hang there a while.

When you think you have an answer, do it several times. THEN go seek the answers. If you already think you have the answers, go hang a while and test everything your reading or hearing. You will find that your questions are logical and common, and your will discover why certain subject are always covered in every climbing book.

If you don’t apply your own logic and understanding… and DO IT… it’s going to be easy to doubt all advice. Even if a world famous climber taught you personally, when you reach the top of a monster cliff… your guts gonna know that your acting in blind faith, like a robot. You should know why your doing what your doing.

If you hang there, you will figure it out. Even if you don’t, when someone does show you the answer, you will be in a position to smell the truth from a lie. Even if you don’t smell the lie, if you pay attention to books, or watch other climbers…you will see a discrepancy. But you get ZERO of these advantages if you don’t try it on your own. You get NOTHING if you don’t take personal responsibility.

IMHO, Being Personal Responsible covers a little more work than merely finding the right answers in a book or forum. Unless you take action, test, question why, and verify your information (preferable with an AMGA Certified Guide) your confidence will always lack. And for as solid as you may LOOK, you may never feel this confidence yourself. What is worse, what other may perceive as solid ability, might merely be robot like mindlessness. Lots of action, but no real brains. Not Good!

THINK!! There is no dishonor in earning your knowledge for yourself! It might take a little longer, you might hang from your garage rafters for months, but the answers and knowledge will be YOURS!

All that said. Now that you have anchor points in your garage. Practice escaping a belay, or a million other rescue techniques. You may not have anything to climb, but you certainly have ample opportunity to learn, welcome to Personal Responsibility.

As opposed to an AMGA Top-Rope Site Manager, eh? ;)

Jay

One day at a time Jay, one day at a time

1,040,136 points for this post!

Awesome

I understand about not marring the house. Perhaps a wall outside? A tree house?

If worse comes to worse, we have a LOT of really lovely trees here in Mobile that are only a 5 minute walk from my house. ;D (There are quite a few huge oak trees...) I've been doing that a bit.

You really think so? It seems rather overwrought given the subject: cleaning a sport route.

Jay

Gear isn't the problem for me. I can borrow quickdraws from people. The problem is that I only TR like 5.8 and according to one of my climber friends I need to at least be climbing at 5.9/5.10 before I even consider leading. He said that I will be climbing three grades below my usual TR climb, which I figured anyway.

But I really, really want to lead. When I get back to school, I plan to do a TON of TR to build my skill/endurance. What I'd started doing before I left school for summer was simply asking for quite a bit of slack. I can't stand the feeling of being "carried" up the wall. And plus, that will hopefully get me used to the feeling of being on lead (in a sense, though I know it's no substitute, really).

Yeah that is me. I could borrow the gear but I don't think I have the skill level yet. Maybe before the summer is over I can try.

Would it be better to first lead climb in a gym or on rock?