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petsfed
Jul 16, 2009, 4:23 PM
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jughead23 wrote: back to my second comment about bolting or not bolting. IF YOU KNOW WHO I CAN TALK TO GRANT ME PERMISSION I.E. THE DAMN LANDOWNER LET ME KNOW. IF NOT the 2nd amendment is my right, signs must clearly be posted for NO tresspassing. i have read all your views. i have thought about all views as well. so keep your side chatter to yourselves and post only solid info.
Actually, you should definitely check the local laws about signage.
I do know that if you refuse to leave after you've been asked by a landowner or his agents, you are trespassing. But in some places, ignorance is no excuse, and removal of signs by would be trespassers will not give them a carte blanche to go whereever.
I agree with Dingus in spirit, but if the trespassers won't be good stewards of the land (as is often the case where I'm from), then they have no right to trespass either.
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knieveltech
Jul 16, 2009, 5:03 PM
Post #27 of 59
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markc wrote: Just for some perspective, the area in question was open to climbing for a long time. It was closed relatively recently when the land changed hands. (The area has a lot of state game lands, and many of us were unaware that it was private property prior to the sale and closing.) Fred, the owner of Exkursion, was in touch with the new owners back in 2006, but was unable to negotiate access. I've heard of individuals climbing there since the closure, but have heard no confirmation about official approval from the landowners. To complicate matters, it seems you can buy membership to the gun club that bought the land to get access, but that it's still officially closed to the public. I can see this leading to some confusion. If anyone can provide details on gaining individual permission to climb there, it would be appreciated. Everything is pretty much vague hearsay. Personally, I won't climb there unless I have individual permission, or until it's reopened to climbers as a whole. I wouldn't want my personal actions to impact the chances of future access. Jughead, who did you speak to exactly? Please don't bolt unless you have clear permission from landowners. If the area is closed, I can't see bright new anchors being viewed kindly.
Gun club? You guys aren't climbing on the range backstop are you? That could get unfortunate.
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knieveltech
Jul 16, 2009, 5:08 PM
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jughead23 wrote: back to my second comment about bolting or not bolting. IF YOU KNOW WHO I CAN TALK TO GRANT ME PERMISSION I.E. THE DAMN LANDOWNER LET ME KNOW. IF NOT the 2nd amendment is my right, signs must clearly be posted for NO tresspassing. i have read all your views. i have thought about all views as well. so keep your side chatter to yourselves and post only solid info.
What, are you incapable using the state GIS to look up who owns the land? Here's a link:
http://maps.pasda.psu.edu/...5FViewer/Viewer2.asp
Also, the caplock key is between tab and shift. Also also, you don't get to mumble about amendments and then ignore the 1st. You don't like the feedback you're getting that's a clear indication you've either done something stupid, are about to do something stupid, or you need to find a more nurturing environment on the web. Does Dr. Phil have a website?
(This post was edited by knieveltech on Jul 16, 2009, 5:10 PM)
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Alpine07
Jul 16, 2009, 5:14 PM
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dynosore wrote: dingus wrote: dynosore wrote: dingus wrote: For you dirtbaggers and locals out there... if you are going to bag private property good god man do it quietly, don't brag about it online and hide all evidence of improvements. And minimize or don't use chalk. DMT I have a better idea: don't go on land that someone else bought, pays taxes on, and maintains without their permission. Stand in line, do as your told, put your foot here, place your hand there, stay the fuck off MY land. Nah. I don't like YOUR way. DMT I'm not surprised; you come off as a self centered jerk, I don't care how great your climbing stories may be, your attitude is selfish and immature. You know it belongs to someone else but you want to go there anyways, so you do. I'm sure if you were on the other end of the situation you might not be so thrilled about having strangers wander onto your property with intentions unknown.
Wow, you call Dingus the self centered jerk when you go and hog 96 acres of land? Hahahaha! That is so ridiculous!
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jt512
Jul 16, 2009, 5:36 PM
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dingus wrote: knieveltech wrote: Traffic and lack of signs don't mean shit. This is not correct. For tresspass to occur the tresspasser must know they are tresspassing. If the land is unsigned... then tresspass has NOT occurred. An unsigned cliff is open for business. Now if the owner shows up and conducts you to the nearest public right of way... you'd best leave quietly.
And while you'd best leave quietly to avoid a confrontation, you might still have the legal right to climb there, depending on how long climbing has taken place on the property, and what actions if any the owners have taken in the past regarding access to their land.
Jay
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dingus
Jul 16, 2009, 5:48 PM
Post #31 of 59
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jt512 wrote: dingus wrote: knieveltech wrote: Traffic and lack of signs don't mean shit. This is not correct. For tresspass to occur the tresspasser must know they are tresspassing. If the land is unsigned... then tresspass has NOT occurred. An unsigned cliff is open for business. Now if the owner shows up and conducts you to the nearest public right of way... you'd best leave quietly. And while you'd best leave quietly to avoid a confrontation, you might still have the legal right to climb there, depending on how long climbing has taken place on the property, and what actions if any the owners have taken in the past regarding access to their land. Jay
Exactly right.
Its a subject near and dear to my heart, having gown up in the robber baron East where almost all of the stolen land is now in private hands. (thank god herself I moved west!)
ALL, not some, ALL of the cliffs in my home county are on private property, every last one of them. I learned to climb on those cliffs and I didn't ask anyone's permission.
I'm not sorry for it either, not in the fucking least little bit. I didn't care and don't, if a 100 acre or a 10,000 acre shotgun totin landowner showed up waving his blue steel penis all over the place. I'll leave if asked or commanded, of course.
But I just might be back too....
I'll hop a fence to climb a peak, yer goddamned right I will. Just try and stop me Shotgun Bob!
DMT
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Alpine07
Jul 16, 2009, 5:52 PM
Post #32 of 59
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dingus wrote: jt512 wrote: dingus wrote: knieveltech wrote: Traffic and lack of signs don't mean shit. This is not correct. For tresspass to occur the tresspasser must know they are tresspassing. If the land is unsigned... then tresspass has NOT occurred. An unsigned cliff is open for business. Now if the owner shows up and conducts you to the nearest public right of way... you'd best leave quietly. And while you'd best leave quietly to avoid a confrontation, you might still have the legal right to climb there, depending on how long climbing has taken place on the property, and what actions if any the owners have taken in the past regarding access to their land. Jay Exactly right. Its a subject near and dear to my heart, having gown up in the robber baron East where almost all of the stolen land is now in private hands. (thank god herself I moved west!) ALL, not some, ALL of the cliffs in my home county are on private property, every last one of them. I learned to climb on those cliffs and I didn't ask anyone's permission. I'm not sorry for it either, not in the fucking least little bit. I didn't care and don't, if a 100 acre or a 10,000 acre shotgun totin landowner showed up waving his blue steel penis all over the place. I'll leave if asked or commanded, of course. But I just might be back too.... I'll hop a fence to climb a peak, yer goddamned right I will. Just try and stop me Shotgun Bob! DMT
+1 Haha, awesome post!
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snoopy138
Jul 16, 2009, 5:55 PM
Post #33 of 59
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jughead23 wrote: back to my second comment about bolting or not bolting. IF YOU KNOW WHO I CAN TALK TO GRANT ME PERMISSION I.E. THE DAMN LANDOWNER LET ME KNOW. IF NOT the 2nd amendment is my right, signs must clearly be posted for NO tresspassing. i have read all your views. i have thought about all views as well. so keep your side chatter to yourselves and post only solid info.
I fail to see how the 2nd Amendment relates to this, even if the land is owned by a gun club.
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climbsomething
Jul 16, 2009, 6:41 PM
Post #34 of 59
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jughead23 wrote: back to my second comment about bolting or not bolting. IF YOU KNOW WHO I CAN TALK TO GRANT ME PERMISSION I.E. THE DAMN LANDOWNER LET ME KNOW. IF NOT the 2nd amendment is my right, signs must clearly be posted for NO tresspassing. i have read all your views. i have thought about all views as well. so keep your side chatter to yourselves and post only solid info.
BillofRights wrote: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
What the hell does that have to do with climbing on private property? Find another crag or build a woody.
Yes, GUd. Yes, some people need to be told twice.
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justroberto
Jul 17, 2009, 7:34 PM
Post #35 of 59
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dingus wrote: jt512 wrote: dingus wrote: knieveltech wrote: Traffic and lack of signs don't mean shit. This is not correct. For tresspass to occur the tresspasser must know they are tresspassing. If the land is unsigned... then tresspass has NOT occurred. An unsigned cliff is open for business. Now if the owner shows up and conducts you to the nearest public right of way... you'd best leave quietly. And while you'd best leave quietly to avoid a confrontation, you might still have the legal right to climb there, depending on how long climbing has taken place on the property, and what actions if any the owners have taken in the past regarding access to their land. Jay Exactly right. Its a subject near and dear to my heart, having gown up in the robber baron East where almost all of the stolen land is now in private hands. (thank god herself I moved west!) ALL, not some, ALL of the cliffs in my home county are on private property, every last one of them. I learned to climb on those cliffs and I didn't ask anyone's permission. I'm not sorry for it either, not in the fucking least little bit. I didn't care and don't, if a 100 acre or a 10,000 acre shotgun totin landowner showed up waving his blue steel penis all over the place. I'll leave if asked or commanded, of course. But I just might be back too.... I'll hop a fence to climb a peak, yer goddamned right I will. Just try and stop me Shotgun Bob! DMT
"In the squares of the city - In the shadow of the steeple
Near the relief office - I see my people
And some are grumblin' and some are wonderin'
If this land's still made for you and me."
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wmfork
Jul 17, 2009, 7:50 PM
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are you talking about adverse possession?
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rtwilli4
Jul 17, 2009, 7:58 PM
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dynosore wrote: dingus wrote: dynosore wrote: I met them out there one day with my 12ga in hand. Oh good god... DMT Yes dingus, we all know you think self defense is foolish. Just go unarmed and "hope" the trespassers play nice. I have every right to carry a firearm on my property, deal with it. I found a patch of weed someone was growing on the adjacent state land before, you'd be a fool to confront some of these people unarmed. I play it cool and friendly but they got my point.
If you really think that you need a gun to confront a bunch of pot growers in the woods than you have been watching too many movies. Unless you found like half an acre of MJ, then it's probably just kids having fun and trying to make a buck. Plus, if you FIND that much growing on your land then maybe it's time you actually get out on your land more often 'cuz it takes a while to get serious out door operations going. Lots of animals like to eat weed plants.
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rtwilli4
Jul 17, 2009, 8:01 PM
Post #38 of 59
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dynosore wrote: dingus wrote: For you dirtbaggers and locals out there... if you are going to bag private property good god man do it quietly, don't brag about it online and hide all evidence of improvements. And minimize or don't use chalk. DMT I have a better idea: don't go on land that someone else bought, pays taxes on, and maintains without their permission. If yuu just have to climb there so bad, get a job and buy the land from them, instead of stealing access to something that's not yours. Geesh. You really want to climb a rock so bad that you're willing to trespass to do it? Selfish.....
Fuck that. It's a free world bro. At least for the few of us that aren't slaving taxpayers.
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rtwilli4
Jul 17, 2009, 8:07 PM
Post #39 of 59
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jughead23 wrote: back to my second comment about bolting or not bolting. IF YOU KNOW WHO I CAN TALK TO GRANT ME PERMISSION I.E. THE DAMN LANDOWNER LET ME KNOW. IF NOT the 2nd amendment is my right, signs must clearly be posted for NO tresspassing. i have read all your views. i have thought about all views as well. so keep your side chatter to yourselves and post only solid info.
Dude you're on RC.com? NO WAY we are keeping things to ourselves. Way I see it, you are already breaking the law by knowingly trespassing, why turn back now? Yea, maybe there are no signs, but it's been declared closed by the local Access Fund Rep. If you are still going to break the law (climb there) then go ahead and put some bolts in. Chances of you getting any answers here are pretty slim. We are all a bunch of assholes.
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rtwilli4
Jul 17, 2009, 8:13 PM
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dingus wrote: jt512 wrote: dingus wrote: knieveltech wrote: Traffic and lack of signs don't mean shit. This is not correct. For tresspass to occur the tresspasser must know they are tresspassing. If the land is unsigned... then tresspass has NOT occurred. An unsigned cliff is open for business. Now if the owner shows up and conducts you to the nearest public right of way... you'd best leave quietly. And while you'd best leave quietly to avoid a confrontation, you might still have the legal right to climb there, depending on how long climbing has taken place on the property, and what actions if any the owners have taken in the past regarding access to their land. Jay Exactly right. Its a subject near and dear to my heart, having gown up in the robber baron East where almost all of the stolen land is now in private hands. (thank god herself I moved west!) ALL, not some, ALL of the cliffs in my home county are on private property, every last one of them. I learned to climb on those cliffs and I didn't ask anyone's permission. I'm not sorry for it either, not in the fucking least little bit. I didn't care and don't, if a 100 acre or a 10,000 acre shotgun totin landowner showed up waving his blue steel penis all over the place. I'll leave if asked or commanded, of course. But I just might be back too.... I'll hop a fence to climb a peak, yer goddamned right I will. Just try and stop me Shotgun Bob! DMT
I just wanted everyone to read that again!
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jt512
Jul 17, 2009, 8:19 PM
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wmfork wrote: are you talking about adverse possession?
I don't know what the legal term is for it. Some states have statutes protecting the rights of recreational users of private land after a specified number of years of use, but I think there is a common law basis for it as well.
Jay
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cracklover
Jul 17, 2009, 8:25 PM
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I'm with Dynosore. Y'all are a bunch of selfish fucks who think you own stuff more than the guy who paid for it does.
I've had the fucking ATVers tear all over my family's land, right in front of the house. They knock down the fences, tear down (and shoot) the No Trespassing signs nearly as fast as we can put 'em back up.
Fuck them, and fuck you.
I respect property rights. I've climbed on private land that wasn't mine, and I asked. When that right was rescinded (due to some political stuff, nothing to do with me) I honored that request.
And this dude (the OP) wants to pull out his bosch and bolt the fuck out of it? Jesus, some people.
GO
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cracklover
Jul 17, 2009, 8:30 PM
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jt512 wrote: wmfork wrote: are you talking about adverse possession? I don't know what the legal term is for it. Some states have statutes protecting the rights of recreational users of private land after a specified number of years of use, but I think there is a common law basis for it as well. Jay
No, I think Jay's talking about a Prescriptive Easement.
GO
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dudemanbu
Jul 17, 2009, 8:31 PM
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dingus wrote: 2 acres. DMT
That seems fair to me. You can park your travel trailer an acre behind my place anytime.
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jt512
Jul 17, 2009, 8:33 PM
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cracklover wrote: jt512 wrote: wmfork wrote: are you talking about adverse possession? I don't know what the legal term is for it. Some states have statutes protecting the rights of recreational users of private land after a specified number of years of use, but I think there is a common law basis for it as well. Jay No, I think Jay's talking about a Prescriptive Easement. GO
I think that might be it.
Jay
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scrapedape
Jul 17, 2009, 8:38 PM
Post #46 of 59
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There was a big high wall there that tried to stop me;
Sign was painted, it said private property;
But on the back side it didn't say nothing;
That side was made for you and me.
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boymeetsrock
Jul 17, 2009, 8:54 PM
Post #47 of 59
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"and the sign said, 'everybody welcome, come in, kneel down, and pray.'"
That is the outdoors I see as soon as I step off the stoop. It implies being welcome, but also (in my mind) implies respect. A little do unto others... Ye may tread lightly on mine, mayin' I can tread lightly on yours.
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dingus
Jul 17, 2009, 9:04 PM
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Hehe give em hell goclimb!
Of course the Land Barons object to commoners crossing their land. Thus it has always been in the House of Lords.
I remember the Woodstock cover of Life Magazine when it was issued OK?
When I was in the 6th grade, I remember listening to a song on the radio with my mom as we drove through Burns Tennessee in her red F100 pickup truck. I was singing along with it. It had been a popular tune for some time and it was damn sure reflective of the times (1972ish).
Anyway.... that song, it stuck in my head. I liked it way back in 19 seventy fucking two. After it was over I told my mom I loved that song because I agreed with the lyrics.
My Mom, a lefty to the core, to the CORE, did not agree with me. At all. "People have a right to private property you know." I was disappointed in her frankly. She let me and Woodie down that day. But I got over it - she's WAY MORE LEFT than me anyway haha.
I told my Dad about California county high pointing. In our discussion I told him that some of the summits were on restricted private property.
"So what, you just don't do those or do the highest legal point, right?" Was his logical Great Generation question.
"No Pop, I just hop the fence and climb the mountain. I'll do it at night if I must." I grinned openly.
My Pop just shook his head in resignation. He done larnt a long time ago his 2nd son wasn't wired in any way he really understood. He didn't even bother with the lecture.
Yeah so anyway thayt song! It stuck in my head and I never forgot it. So when Tesla some 30 years later covered it a whole new generation became familiar with Signs:
And the sign says "long hair freaky people need not apply"
So I tucked my hair under my hat and I went in to ask him why
He said you look like a fine outstanding young man I think you'll do
So I took off my hat I said "Imagine that Huh Me working for you"
Signs Signs
Everywhere there's signs
Fucking up the scenery
Breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that
Can't you read the sign
And the sign says "Anybody caught trespassing will be shot on sight"
So I jumped the fence and I yelled at the house, Hey! What gives you the right
To put up a fence And keep me out Or to keep Mother Nature in
If God was here He'd tell it to your face Man You're some kind of sinner
Signs Signs
Everywhere there's signs
Fucking up the scenery
Breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that
Can't you read the sign
Oh Say now mister Can't you read
You got to have a shirt and tie to get a seat
You can't watch No You can't eat You ain't supposed to be here
And the sign says "You got to have a membership card to get inside" Huh
And the sign says "Everybody welcome Come in Kneel down and pray"
But then they passed around a plate at the end of it all
And I didn't have a penny to pay
So I got me a pen and paper And I made up my own fuckin' sign
I said Thank you Lord for thinking about me I'm alive and doing fine
Signs Signs
Everywhere there's signs
Fucking up the scenery
Breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that
Can't you read the sign
Signs Signs
Everywhere there's signs
Fucking up the scenery
Breaking my mind
Do this, don't do that
Can't you read the sign
I am unrepentant goddamnit! Catch me if you can.
DMT
(This post was edited by dingus on Jul 17, 2009, 9:06 PM)
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cracklover
Jul 17, 2009, 9:15 PM
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dingus wrote: I am unrepentant goddamnit! Catch me if you can. DMT
Well if I ever own a cliff or a mountain, you, Dingus, have my express permission to climb it. So there.
Now you can't poach it. Ha ha!
GO
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