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sierraclimber1
Aug 8, 2005, 4:39 AM
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Some climbers want to keep Shuteye Ridge area info off the grid. They feel it will protect the crags and give them time to complete their projects. I think most of us however feel that sharing our routes and areas helps bring us together as a stronger community and enjoy areas we normally wouldn't know about.
Shuteye is a magical place and worth protecting. Its primitive surroundings sets it apart from most crags. I can't imagine it ever being overrun with climbers due to the drive approach and the large number of formations available to people, it could definitely support many more visits than what it now gets.
However, if enough people respond to not disclose info on this area I will happily delete it all. If not I look forward to sharing many more routes and walls out there.
Let me know what you think!
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tim
Aug 8, 2005, 5:50 AM
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So, I'm sure you know that Climbing rag published a piece on Shuteye a few months ago that spoke rather glowingly of it and compared it to the Needles, Calaveras Dome, etc... your photos of it are at least as compelling as the story in the rag, but it sounds a lot like Patterson, Calaveras, et al; very pretty but the approach and wilderness setting thwarts overuse. It's worth noting that Calaveras Dome was on the front page of Climbing a few years before that, and what happened next was that a handful of new faces showed up, most of them got poison oak, and things basically returned to the way they were before all the photos were published in the rags.
It might seem like the cat is out of the bag, but truthfully, any idiot who can handle a USGS topo map can usually put two and two together and find many of the bluffs in the western Sierra without any help at all. (I'm not complaining about the beta and photos you put up -- they're awesome!)
Failing that, they can track down someone like Doug Robinson who visited the place 30 years ago, and ask them for beta. California isn't Alaska -- it's all pretty much terra cognita -- the same people whining about overcrowding in Yosemite, Tahquitz, etc. etc. seem nonplussed by the idea that they can hike a little further and have a much more thrilling experience in Kings Canyon, the Needles, or almost anywhere in the Southern Sierra. Of course, even in Yosemite, it's plenty easy to find uncrowded lines and wilderness if you get up early and push a little harder than the norm. The optimistic way to look at this is to assume that those are the people who will take you up on the beta you've offered, and some of them might be the ones who'll establish the lines you've been scoping out in your photos. It takes some sack to hike in and establish 5.11, 5.12, 5.13, 5.14 lines like you're describing in your photo captions -- the overall impression I got of Shuteye is that climbing there is pretty damn high-standard stuff.
It's up to you and your own comfort level, I guess. If you have reservations about giving out beta on the area on the public Internet, then don't. (IMHO) I've been telling people how to get to the Needles for years, probably have contributed to some tiny fraction of the impact on that glorious crag, but it still seems pretty wild once you are up on a route. Publicity didn't make the approach any shorter or the climbs any less intimidating.
If you figure the ridge can stand a few newcomers and more people appreciating its beauty when some logging company wants to shut down access, I'm sure that many of us will greatly appreciate your guidance.
All of the above is simply my opinion, as usual. But if you decide that it's all got to come down, and come down fast, let me know and I can make it happen, fast. Otherwise, please accept my thanks for posting your photos.
--t
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cgranite
Aug 8, 2005, 6:11 AM
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I'm not saying yes, but it's rough country with a rough approach. It's also very close to the Valley, which kept me from going to shuteye.
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tim
Aug 8, 2005, 6:16 AM
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Here's another thought -- the more people who are aware of Shuteye's potential, the more people there are likely to sign on and help push through something like this:
potential Wilderness designation for Shuteye Ridge in the Sierra National Forest
If there's anything that's liable to keep desecration to a minimum, regardless of the inevitable publicity, wilderness designation is it.
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norushnomore
Aug 8, 2005, 7:05 AM
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That's a lame way to get more buseness for your Bed and Breakfast.
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atpeaceinbozeman
Aug 8, 2005, 5:55 PM
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In reply to: That's a lame way to get more buseness for your Bed and Breakfast.
Pfft. I think your the lamo. :roll:
He wants to post about cragging in his area for others to enjoy, I don't think it was to increase his buseness. Personally I wouldn't mind staying at a B&B run by a climber.
Shuteye looks rad, the approach looks arduous, I just want to see more photos of the area...
Tom
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serenityascents
Aug 8, 2005, 11:24 PM
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I don't think it will significantly impact the area at all. Most people will pass it up for the valley, and how many people really have the motivation to do the approach drive, walk out into the bushwhack and crank and then drive wicked 4WD to get back out? Plus how will the projects in progress going to be affected? Probably only 1% or less of climbers own a drill, and probably only 20% of that minute minority have a 4WD...i'm with the first guy...it'll be just like calaveras dome...a small new wave of folks and then they'll all dissappear when they get on gray eagle and have to run it out 40'
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socalbolter
Aug 8, 2005, 11:35 PM
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While I'm relatively new to the climbing options in Shuteye, I can share a few observations:
Huge formations everywhere.
Approaches that are not as bad as we were all led to believe.
Both Trad and Sport options relatively close to the car.
Unlimited potential for new routes if you feel so inclined.
Yes, a 4WD is nice to have, but not mandatory for all formations.
In my first 6-day trip there I visited a handful of different formations, bolted three stellar new lines, climbed a stack of fun existing routes and did a little bouldering. I could spend multiple days on any of these pursuits without ever having to go more than 30 minutes from the car.
If you can't tell I miss it already.
Will releasing more info affect the crags? On a very limited scale it might. Probably more on the short term than over the long haul. It's definitely not the roadside sport climbing venue that seems to be in vogue these days. That said, there are some amazing formations and routes waiting out there for those that take the time to visit. Everything I've seen, read and heard about the place makes it sound more remote than it really is.
If you're even remotely interested in checking it out --- you won't regret it.
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bler
Aug 8, 2005, 11:46 PM
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you mean you have to HIKE into this place ??!?!? ;)
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alter_nate
Aug 13, 2005, 8:33 PM
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For what it's worth, here's my take:
As others have said, this vast area can definitely handle more visits, and solitude will still be easy to find.
The poll is a very good idea. However, in my opinion, every attempt should also be made to contact and get the input of as many other first ascentionists in the area as possible, as I sense it is unlikely that many of them frequent this forum. (Possibly you have already started, and I know you and others here have put up new lines there - hats off.) Obviously, the place is not a complete secret. Many of the folks who have invested a lot of time up there were in on the recent article. However, we also know they didn't share a lot of detailed beta. The article was really just a teaser, and this was quite intentional.
Of course the FAists don't own the place - we all do. But I think their voices should be heard, and permission to share their route info should probably be obtained. So IMHO, your own routes and everything else that has been previously published about the area is fair game to share (assuming there's no copyright issues, which I know nothing about).
Personally, I agree that Shuteye is an incredible adventure climbing area, and there are so many formations in a wilderness setting that it doesn't seem conducive to a high density of routes. Quality will hopefully continue to be emphasized over quantity. Most would agree that often the harder you have to work for something, the greater the reward - or however it goes. There is something there for everyone, and I hope that it will remain a magical place where the dreams of climbers can be realized for many generations to come.
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sierraclimber1
Aug 15, 2005, 4:29 PM
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Thans for your input so far! :D
After getting some more feedback from locals I have decided to take down the driving directions and approaches to the domes.
For now keeping the area unimpacted and wild is the preferrence. Hopefully locals can use this forum to share new route info without fear that the hordes will come and ruin the area. There is a fair amount of new route activity that goes on from different visiting groups from all over. Often routes get put up and nobody knows the details. Hopefully that can change and we can still keep Shuteye the way it is.
Thanks and keep the opinions coming...
Grahm
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chronicle
Aug 15, 2005, 5:01 PM
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So I just checked out this website: http://www.calwild.org/places/ss/shuteye.php and by clicking on the regional map, you can easily figure out your own driving directions. By calling the phone number, they will give you personal directions there, plus trail info, hiking/backpacking info, how to get to the rocks, how long it will take to hike in, etc, etc.
Nothing that you are posting is secret!!! All you are doing is saving somebody a phone call, a search on MapQuest for driving directions, and a look at a map.
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rmoellering
Aug 15, 2005, 5:13 PM
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I visited Shuteye last summer and the most impressive thing I saw was a VW bus halfway up the approach 'road'. Considering that we were concerned for the well-being of our pickup truck on the way up we were pretty shocked to see that thing had made it up so far.
The rock is both beautiful and plentiful and the quality is excellent, but ultimately I believe the remoteness of the location is going to keep the place from ever being overrun. We tried a fair sampling of routes at several of the crags scattered around and none of our group has been motivated to make a return visit.
Posting access info will almost always lead to an increase in visitors, but in this particular case, I don't see the place ever getting mobbed.
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dingus
Aug 15, 2005, 5:20 PM
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In reply to: After getting some more feedback from locals I have decided to take down the driving directions and approaches to the domes. For now keeping the area unimpacted and wild is the preferrence.
Grahm,
I've stayed out of this thread. But I climbed a bit in the Mammoth Pool country starting in the early 90's and have samled routes from Balloon Dome (East Face) to Chiquito, Gray Eagle, both Eagle Beaks, Queens Throne, bouldering on the ridge, etc.
I know what its like to climb Gray Eagle on a hot summer day!
The reason I didn't chime in is that I haven't climbed in the area in a few years so I didn't think my opinion counted for all that much.
But I am glad you A. Asked B. Listened and C. Heeded the wishes of the local community.
WELL DONE on that score.
DMT
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hangerlessbolt
Aug 15, 2005, 5:30 PM
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It’s good to allow natural progression to take its toll
I recently visited a “secret” climbing area…filled with climbers, dogs, and kids…I chuckled…apparently I was a little late
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alter_nate
Aug 15, 2005, 8:17 PM
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In reply to: Often routes get put up and nobody knows the details.
Consider taping a friendly note and/or your email to the anchors of an unknown new route. This has worked for me in the past.
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serenityascents
Aug 23, 2005, 3:09 AM
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I don't think that alot of folks want to keep the place a 'secret', rather those who are putting up hard lines want to know that their ropes, and other FA gear don't get ripped off. Some chump recently took chains off the rapp route on Gray Eagle. So if anybody who reads this goes out there, take in some chains and links and put it back!!! Thanks to you, the level of secrecy for the area has been raised in my mind...I'm not going to spend $10 per rapp anchor so some idiot can have some chain to tie his dog up with...
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grovehunter
Sep 30, 2005, 2:12 AM
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Most People Won't Bother to go to this area because it is somewhat remote. I have been through this area by accident when searching for the Nelder Grove of big Sequoias. I can confirm that getting there is not impossible. The bush wacking is arduous to say the least, not to mention the poison oak is rampant.(this is an under statement) The average Joe or Joanne isn't going to hassle with the road conditions or the bush wacking. As far as wilderness status is concerned, the area lies smack dab in the middle of the Sequoia belt, and it could easily be fought for if need be. The area has been frequented by hikers for some time now and is really no secret. I live in redondo Beach and I found the place with relatively little trouble, By myself I might add. If you are a strong to average hiker you can access this place easily.
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kalcario
Sep 30, 2005, 2:25 AM
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How many people even go to the Riverside Quarry? Like 20? I wouldn't worry about it.
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grovehunter
Oct 2, 2005, 9:17 AM
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[quote="grovehunter"]Most People Won't Bother to go to this area because it is somewhat remote. I have been through this area by accident when searching for the Nelder Grove of big Sequoias. I can confirm that getting there is not impossible. The bush wacking is arduous to say the least, not to mention the poison oak is rampant.(this is an under statement) The average Joe or Joanne isn't going to hassle with the road conditions or the bush wacking. As far as wilderness status is concerned, the area lies smack dab in the middle of the Sequoia belt, and it could easily be fought for if need be. The area has been frequented by hikers for some time now and is really no secret. I live in redondo Beach and I found the place with relatively little trouble, By myself I might add. If you are a strong to average hiker you can access this place easily.[If it Seems like a bad idea it probably is.....]
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karlbaba
Oct 2, 2005, 3:07 PM
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I live in Southern Yosemite and don't bother to hike up there. Yosemite, Tuolumne Meadows, or the Needles are closer to EVERYONE, than this area, which also has local competition from non-approach areas like Fresno Dome, the Balls, Chiquito dome, and many more. I have Spencer's old guide.
It's never going to be overrun. You may even get a better bushwhack if more people visited.
Peace
Karl
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socalbolter
Oct 21, 2005, 1:01 AM
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It seems like everyone that climbs here is looking for info on the unknown stuff.
In response to that I've added info on my recent additions and will continue to do so as I gather info on other routes.
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socalbolter
Oct 21, 2005, 1:04 AM
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Several new routes were added to one of the formations near the campground (Shangri La). This wall can be reached in 10 minutes or less from the car.
New photos and a topo of this wall have been added to the photos section for this area.
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...p.cgi?Detailed=63004
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slablizard
Jun 11, 2007, 4:14 PM
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Unbelievable........
ouch my feet...
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sptless_mind
Aug 11, 2009, 3:14 AM
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FOR NOW, i say lets keep this crad quiet, as it is still under development as of today... I would really hate to have some in-experienced setter come and ruin an experienced setters awesome route... be patient..... There is a RUMOR of a Guide Book... Can't say any more ^_^
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