I posted this over at supertopo, wondering your thoughts too !
[image]
Hello everyone, I just thought up an anchor and would like some feedback if would be so kind :)

As far as I can tell it is completely redundant for all components (protection, cord, crabs). Also I think it adheres to SERENE without sacrificing dynamic equalization for no extension (of course adherence with SERENE only applies to protection failure, not cord failure etc). Even better than that, it uses minimal gear, or as minimal as it could with the above properties.

There is a slight bit of extension. It is equal to half the distance between the failing protection and the protection attached to the failing protection with the extension limiter strand. But this is half or less (depending on how close the protection is) of what other designs yield.

The two and three protection versions are below (3 protection version only needs an additional 2 crabs and 1 small sling) as well as a very bad wrong version. Can anybody spot the deficiency in the wrong version? :D

I am trying to get it as simple as possible

the regular sliding X binds under load, and with the knot it is not equalizing, so I don't see how that is SERENE.

The R in SERENE stands for redundant, and yes it applies to everything in an anchor including cord.

I'm just wondering why john longs equalette didn't receive such "its useless" remarks when his book was published. This is faster and better performing. Not a lot faster though...

I'm just wondering why john longs equalette didn't receive such "its useless" remarks when his book was published. This is faster and better performing. Not a lot faster though...

That shit is way too complicated. KISS! Just use a damm sliding X with two slings for god sake!! The sliding X is redundant with two slings and extremely easy and fast to set up. If you are worried about "shock loading (insert ghost sounds here)" then just use cordalette and tie a knot at the end. Much simpler, completely bomber, works with any number of anchors, and minimal hardware required.

Oddball:

But using a sliding X with limiting knots is supposed to give equalization with small extension, it does neither well, so why even use it?

Here are the situations.
1. You don't need equalization. The best anchor is then the ROPE clove hitched in series to your protection points. I have many reasons for this if you want to hear :)
2. You need equalization but don't care about extension. Then my anchor without the top sling is simpler than any solution that has the same equalization, and meets all other needs.
3. You need the best you can get, then use this anchor and spend the minute putting it there.

Oddball:

But using a sliding X with limiting knots is supposed to give equalization with small extension, it does neither well, so why even use it?

Oddball:

Well I think it is fairly well known that the sliding X binds when loaded. And any limiting knot you tie, will reduce proportionally the amount it can equalize.

It binds when loaded, so whats the problem? Did you die?

big deal you drop a couple feet and you may have a little swing.

patto:

SERENE is not an impossibility with dynamic equalization, it just hasn't been designed yet. And the "math" you speak of only applies to current designs, a new design would change that "math".

perhaps you could construct the actual thing and show us some pictures?

I was just thinking about doing that, but I don't want to go to the work

coolcat83:

I was just thinking about doing that, but I don't want to go to the work (thinking load cells I have access to) if people aren't genuinely interested, I'm sure you can understand that.

And by the way, ive never had a Sliding X bind on me so i dont know what others are doing to cause it to but I guess they are going to die unless they bring all their gear with them on a multipitch climb.

Says who? This obsession with redundancy is absurd. Even using two carabiners for you anchor point seems excessive and I have never seen any leader do this EVER. Do you use two carabiners in abseiling? There are plenty of non redundant items in the construction of an anchor and in general climbing. To think otherwise is absurd.

Well it does bind slightly on you and you don't even know it. So rather than perfect 50-50 equalisation you end up with 45-55 or even 40-60 equalisation.

Now sensible people would realise that 40-60 is damn well good enough whereas those who think it isn't design highly complicated anchors and post them on rockclimbing.com.

And yes you do want every part of you anchor redundant.

Are you being overly excessive on this concept yes.

Troll: In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

Thats a great way of demonstrating, majid_sabet

Well actually I don't. And THAT was my point. I only ever have one carabiner at the master point of my anchor. I could have two but I don't because I recognise that redundacy is totally uneccessary here.

????
Um.. I thought I was the one objecting to people getting 'overly excessive' on this concept. ?????

Here are the situations.
1. You don't need equalization. The best anchor is then the ROPE clove hitched in series to your protection points. I have many reasons for this if you want to hear :)

If you were relying on equalized gear placement to give you the total strength then YES YOU DID.

To a lot of people the shock load is a big deal. The jury and tests are still out on the real force of a shockload on a factor 2ish fall.

I posted this over at supertopo, and since I'm getting totally hammered there, wondering your thoughts too I thought I'd see if I'd get more sympathy at rc.com !

Hello everyone, I just thought up an extremely complex and labor-intensive anchor and would like some feedback praise and adulation if would be so kind :) I'm only interested in hearing from those who think my system is the most amazing and original innovation since ribbed condoms, so if you're rgold or anyone else with enough common sense to recognize that my anchor system is utter garbage, please don't reply.

I posted this over at supertopo, wondering your thoughts too !
[image]
Hello everyone, I just thought up an anchor and would like some feedback if would be so kind :)

As far as I can tell it is completely redundant for all components (protection, cord, crabs). Also I think it adheres to SERENE without sacrificing dynamic equalization for no extension (of course adherence with SERENE only applies to protection failure, not cord failure etc). Even better than that, it uses minimal gear, or as minimal as it could with the above properties.

There is a slight bit of extension. It is equal to half the distance between the failing protection and the protection attached to the failing protection with the extension limiter strand. But this is half or less (depending on how close the protection is) of what other designs yield.

It is fast to setup because the knots that are not clove hitches can be tied before a climb, and it takes minimal cord. Basically to setup it requires 3 clove hitch adjustments, not long.

The clove hitches are there only to adjust length if you have no runners. Once can forgo the clove hitches to adjust and just extend which ever of the three ends you need to to be faster, since it all equalizes out.

The two and three protection versions are below (3 protection version only needs an additional 2 crabs and 1 small sling) as well as a very bad wrong version. Can anybody spot the deficiency in the wrong version? :D

i wish people would stop asking questions then providing pics like that. its not that hard to set something up on coat hangers or something and take a pic of it, instead of posting something that a cia code cracker would have trouble deciphering.

Can anybody spot the deficiency in the wrong version? :D

Can anybody spot the deficiency in the wrong version? :D

i wish people would stop asking questions then providing pics like that. its not that hard to set something up on coat hangers or something and take a pic of it, instead of posting something that a cia code cracker would have trouble deciphering.

coolcat83:

Ah ok I wasn't aware it got those comments as well, thanks I didn't know.

Well I've said the advantages, but I will repeat them in case it wasn't clear.
If you tie the non clove hitches before you leave ground, this anchor is faster to setup than the equalette, and for the same amount of cord acheives much better lack of extension, and retains all dynamic equalization. It is also redundant with regards to cord and crab failure, without any extra gear than the equalette.

Those are significant advantages I believe, of course we all have our own opinions :)

I can't believe I missed this thread, I would've just pointed everyone to my signature.

I can't believe I missed this thread, I would've just pointed everyone to my signature.

Save a lot of time.

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Women are underrepresented in that anchor, so I'd have to say that there's an equalization issue. You may think that mixing genders may cause unnecessary tension and friction, but you don't want to end up with a hippie, liberal protest at your anchor while your hands are tied.

No, mixing genders is a bad idea. When you put different genders in close proximity like that, you can get strong electricity! Just like putting different metals together, the galvanic corrosion that results will kill you for sure.

GO

I've improved on this anchor design by adding an american death triangle in the middle of it, a completely random extra loop of cord, two army men to protect the bolts, and a man on fire at the master point.
[image]http://dave.theuw.net/perfectanchor.jpg[/image]

I think nearly everyone will be using this anchor by this time next year.

You forgot the triforce.

I'm just wondering why john longs equalette didn't receive such "its useless" remarks when his book was published. This is faster and better performing. Not a lot faster though...

I have been using Equalette for quite some time now and I can beet you and your anchor every time.

Congrats for trying.

T0 - CF10

Can you imagine trying to build this cluster fuck on a wall?

Why isn't this in the beginners forum where it belongs?

I've improved on this anchor design by adding an american death triangle in the middle of it, a completely random extra loop of cord, two army men to protect the bolts, and a man on fire at the master point.


I think nearly everyone will be using this anchor by this time next year.

Hmm... I think we lost poor Mr. jonathan.gaillard. No word from him here on on ST in ages.

Because if a beginner tried to make this cf he would DIE!!!

Hmm... so the configuration you're using looks something like this?



Not sure how that's better. Beets have a lot of iron, right? So you're saying aluminum is weaker than iron?

Please explain.

GO

Are you Fucken kidding me with this shit ?

Please explain.

Yes.


Okay,

beet: [img]http://www.7dvt.com/files/food-beet.jpg[/img]

beat: [img]http://www.abbeville.com/images-catalog/full-size/0789209039.interior01.jpg[/img]

They are different words, with different meanings. You said you could beet his anchor.

Claro?

GO

Hmm... I think we lost poor Mr. jonathan.gaillard. No word from him here on on ST in ages.

Heh. Unfortunately I had to swear to only use my powers for good.

Heh. Unfortunately I had to swear to only use my powers for good.

Edit: What's your opinion about Equalette ?