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baba44713
Mar 23, 2010, 5:45 PM
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Hi everyone.
I'd like to get some feedback on this issue, which is pretty much eating me for the last few months.
My wife is pregnant, and soon enough I'm becoming a Dad. Pretty scary stuff, but that's not really what I'm talking about. What is mostly on my mind is whether rock climbing is something I should keep on doing, seeing there will be a kid in my life and everything.
I'm in my early 30s and I've been rock climbing for the last six years. I have other hobbies, but none which takes most of my free time like climbing does. Every other weekend I go on crags, three times a week I go to a indoor gym and basically whenever I'm not working, I'm climbing. My wife hates heights, but tolerates my obsession, and never complains when every other weekend I take my gear and leave for God knows where. Most of my friends are climbers, and those who aren't think I'm nuts, having an early mid-life crisis, most probably both.
However now that a kid is on the way, these non-climbing friends started getting out of their way to "get me on the right track", pointing out that I've had my fun, but now it's time to grow up. Leave hanging on the ropes to teenagers, start raising to your responsibilities and stop with all that nonsense. What's worse, they are really getting to me - I feel my enjoyment of being on the rocks wasting away as a small voice in my head constantly nags how selfish and reckless I am. It doesn't matter that I am - and always have - climbed responsibly, never choosing routes that I know are beyond my skill, always being extra careful with the equipment and techniques and basically taking as much care to be safe as possible; the mere notion that I am climbing steep rocks instead of having leisurely strolls in the parks like other people my age do is enough to keep me awake at night.
My wife is ok with me not giving up climbing, God bless her. She says that she respects my judgment, and leaves me to make my own choices.
So what I'm interested is - was anyone else who visits these forums in this kind of situation, and how did you deal with it? Were you keeping the same lifestyle (as much as parental duties allowed of course), were you "dialing it down", only climbing stuff you know you could climb blindfolded, or did you leave climbing for good? And if you kept climbing, how did you shut up that little voice and deal with those around you that looked at you badly for risking your life with a kid now depending on you?
Thanks for any answers and advice you can provide. Cheers!
B.
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patmay81
Mar 23, 2010, 6:00 PM
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I've been on a similar track lately. I am engaged and will soon be starting my family. I hope to introduce climbing to my kids (not to the point of other posters on this forum), but just have climbing as a family activity. My fiance loves that I climb and loves to go with me, although she doesn't climb too often herself.
She has told me that I am not allowed to give up climbing, as it would change who I am and she loves me for who I am.
I have never thought of climbing as risking my life. With the right skill set, equipment and knowledge of that equipment, anything I ever aspire to climb should not be dangerous at all. I have no goals to climb an 8000'er. I guess the point is, climbing isn't about taking risk, its about minimizing risk.
for now I am a crag rat, and hopefully always will be (kids and all)
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Scourge
Mar 23, 2010, 6:04 PM
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I have a 4 month old. My lifestyle has definately changed a bit, but I'm lucky to have a wife that supports me in my hobbies. As long as I'm not going climbing every minute I am not working and as long as I help her out, she doesn't complain (well, maybe a little!). It sounds like your wife is similar so thank your lucky stars and don't overdo it. As far as your friends--I say don't worry about what they think. All that should matter is if your new family is happy. Becoming a dad is indeed a bit scary but its the most amazing thing in the world. So good luck!!
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jeepnphreak
Mar 23, 2010, 6:06 PM
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baba44713 wrote: My wife is ok with me not giving up climbing, God bless her. She says that she respects my judgment, and leaves me to make my own choices.
you are one liucky man. few non climber wifes are that understanding.
baba44713 wrote: So what I'm interested is - was anyone else who visits these forums in this kind of situation, and how did you deal with it? Were you keeping the same lifestyle (as much as parental duties allowed of course), were you "dialing it down", only climbing stuff you know you could climb blindfolded, or did you leave climbing for good? And if you kept climbing, how did you shut up that little voice and deal with those around you that looked at you badly for risking your life with a kid now depending on you? Thanks for any answers and advice you can provide. Cheers B.
I am exactly in the place that you will be in a few. My son is two weeks old today. I have been out side twice in that last thre days. I just let my wife know what I have planned and where. She is well aware that I have no planes to quite climbing, i hve been a avid climber for 15 years now.
Just keep climbing, but rember not to forget you family. Really its up to you and you family to come to a conclusion on how much climbing you can get in. I would suggest that for the first few week tone the amout of climbing down and determine what kind of responsiblities the new kiddo is going to require. It may be that you will tired enough that climbing will be low on your list of things you want to do for a while.
I can say that for the first bit live by the moment, you new kid will have no set schedual, so be very flexable in your schedual as well. With a new born it really hard to mak set planes.
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todd_climberinla
Mar 23, 2010, 6:09 PM
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I have a 21 month old son. To be sure, it's taken some adjusting, but I still climb, and, in fact, am probably climbing harder now than ever before. The first year is the most difficult b/c the baby doesn't sleep much and you are totally exhausted, sleep-deprived, and generally useless. Babies cry a lot and don't sleep for more than 3-4 hours in a row for the first 6 months or so. But it gets better and pretty soon you'll be able to train/climb again. I took a few months off at the beginning and then started back, climbing easy stuff (indoors and outdoors). By 8 months, I was back to normal. Of course, I can't go away on multi-day trips whenever I want, but I try to plan out a few major trips each year -- well in advance, with adequate "coverage" for your spouse/partner. For example, I arranged for my parents to help out when I went to the New last year. The main thing is trying to respect the needs of your partner and make it possible for her to stay alone with the baby without her resenting it (while you climb).
I think the safety issue is no more or less relevant now than it was before -- I was safety conscious before having a kid and am still safety conscious. Of course, it's never 100%, but neither is road biking, ocean swimming, driving, walking across the street, etc.
In sum, it's hardly the end of the world -- in fact, it's pretty amazing to watch your kid actually get older, try new things, watch you and learn.
(This post was edited by todd_climberinla on Mar 23, 2010, 6:12 PM)
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slavetogravity
Mar 23, 2010, 6:12 PM
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Wow, reading this just sent shutters down my spine. We could very well be the same person, because every thing you just said echoes the changes and anxieties that are happening in my life as well. The big difference is that very few people are telling me to change, probably because they know that climbing has evolved for me in to being a little more then just a hobby. To make matters even more ridiculous, my non-climbing-wife and I are going to be moving to Squamish in the next few months. Doing this with any expectation that I will stop climbing is like an alcoholic buying a bar, only to be told that they should no longer drink. In this time of transition to fatherhood I have a few examples that give me hope. Specifically the number of guys I know who are fathers, happily married, and are avid climbers. I believe what you lack is some perspective. If the only climbers you know are all a bunch of dirt bag climbing bums, then I can understand your anxiety. What you need is to meet with and climb with other climbing parents.
Now I'm a very practical person, when I'm faced with a problem or challenge I have to envision how EXACTLY I'm going to solve this challenge. This is now I plan to face the challenge of juggling parenthood and climbing.
1. Find other climbing parents.
2. Take the kids to the crag. I've been seeing this for years. Parents who take their babies and toddlers to the crag. This is when having other parents comes in handy. What I've seen is two pairs of parents at the crag, and what they do is tag-team each other, so at any given time you have one set of parent on the wall while the other two are with the kids.
In reply to: 3. Find a rock climbing baby sitter. I have never seen this in action, but I can't see why it wouldn't work. So the wife needs some time away from the baby, meaning your left with the baby duties. So you take the little one, call up the sitter and you, your climbing buddy, the baby and your climbing wise baby sitter all go to the crag for the day. So the baby is never out of your site and sitters duties are to hold/take care of baby while your on the rope. I wish you luck, see you out there Dad.
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kovacs69
Mar 23, 2010, 6:21 PM
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B,
There is no reason to give up climbing. It is a fun and healty activity. Someday you will even get your kids into the act. As for your non-climbing friends...well they will probably never understand.
I recently had 2 kids...now 3 1/2 and 2. The only thing I have done differently is to take fewer risks. I have actually ramped up my climbing in the last 3 years. I have found 4 new areas and had multiple FA's and bolted many routes.
Here are some pictures to get you juices flowing about the kids and a couple of videos.
BTW...kids are natural climbers...mine wanted to climb from day 1.
JB
Start them young...so you can enjoy every minute!
Just a few weeks ago.
My oldest at about 10 months.
Playing while daddy climbs.
First boulder problem.
Video of my first son at less than 2.
http://www.youtube.com/...4#p/u/11/2xqWUcpYoTw
And the video of my youngest at 18 months...I apologize for the audio...it was broken.
http://www.youtube.com/...w4#p/u/0/dABvOVKPkgU
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Dip
Mar 23, 2010, 6:28 PM
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my son is going to be 1 on april 8th, and it was definitely a bit of an adjustment, but it can and does work. like others said i can't exactly drop everything and go away every weekend, but i still get my climbing in. I know it's not an option for everyone but a big help for my situation was building a wall in my garage. Now instead of going to the gym 3 times a week (which was a major fight starter for the first 8 months) i can just go out back when the boy goes to sleep. I still get outside 2-3 times a month, and was able to get to the New for 5 days in october, heading to chatty for 5 days this year, and as he gets older i'm sure i'll be able to work more trips in, until eventually he can come along, which is more exciting to me than anything else. When she was pregnant I was so scared that i wasn't going to be able to keep at it after he was born and since she doesn't climb i'd be lying if i said we didn't fight about it from time to time, but really if you want to keep at it, you find a way to make it work. As far as your non climbing friends telling you to grow up and accept repsonsability goes, i think i'd have to tell them to get bent and worry about their own lives. You only get one shot at this, you gotta do what makes you happy.
(This post was edited by Dip on Mar 23, 2010, 6:31 PM)
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Mariofercol
Mar 23, 2010, 6:29 PM
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Three of my climbing friends are pregnant at the moment (very odd). Two of them have husbands who climb too. They are still climbing during their pregnancy. I saw one of them last week with her full body harness, she looked really cute. I think if you really like climbing, there is no reason to stop. You will will become more careful and take less chances probably but nothing else.
Btw, another guy (not a climber) criticized their decision of keep climbing saying how irresponsible of them. Let's just say he won't be criticizing anybody any more 
(This post was edited by Mariofercol on Mar 23, 2010, 6:31 PM)
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lena_chita
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Mar 23, 2010, 6:35 PM
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DO a search-- there are quite a few threads on this subject
baba44713 wrote: My wife is pregnant, and soon enough I'm becoming a Dad. Pretty scary stuff, but that's not really what I'm talking about. What is mostly on my mind is whether rock climbing is something I should keep on doing, seeing there will be a kid in my life and everything.
First- congratulations.
Second- there are relatively few things you SHOULD be doing, such as loving your wife and child, and being a responsible husband and father.
Rock-climbing (or any other elective activity) is not what you SHOULD be doing, now, or after becomig a parent. But it is what you COULD be doing, assuming you still enjoy it, and assuming that it doesn't interfere with the things that you shoud be doing.
baba44713 wrote: I'm in my early 30s and I've been rock climbing for the last six years. I have other hobbies, but none which takes most of my free time like climbing does. Every other weekend I go on crags, three times a week I go to a indoor gym and basically whenever I'm not working, I'm climbing. My wife hates heights, but tolerates my obsession, and never complains when every other weekend I take my gear and leave for God knows where. Most of my friends are climbers, and those who aren't think I'm nuts, having an early mid-life crisis, most probably both. However now that a kid is on the way, these non-climbing friends started getting out of their way to "get me on the right track", pointing out that I've had my fun, but now it's time to grow up. Leave hanging on the ropes to teenagers, start raising to your responsibilities and stop with all that nonsense. What's worse, they are really getting to me - I feel my enjoyment of being on the rocks wasting away as a small voice in my head constantly nags how selfish and reckless I am. It doesn't matter that I am - and always have - climbed responsibly, never choosing routes that I know are beyond my skill, always being extra careful with the equipment and techniques and basically taking as much care to be safe as possible; the mere notion that I am climbing steep rocks instead of having leisurely strolls in the parks like other people my age do is enough to keep me awake at night.
You need some new friends --namely, climber friends who have babies, too.
There is some merit to what your friends are saying. Having a child changes your life and reduces the amount of "free time" you have dramatically, as well as making you more aware of your responsibilities. Assuming you work full-time outside the house and that is unchangeable, you probably would have to change your leisure activity schedule if you hope to see your child for more than 4 hours a week.
But this isn't all-or-nothing scenario. You don't have to give up climbing completely to be a good father. You still need and deserve some time for activities you enjoy (and so does your wife, by the way...) It will take some creative scheduling, and it would be something only you and your wife could figure out, but it is doable.
baba44713 wrote: My wife is ok with me not giving up climbing, God bless her. She says that she respects my judgment, and leaves me to make my own choices.
Sounds like a good wife. Make sure you give her the same, and life would be good. :)
Mind you, the sweet attitude might change in the future if she gets overwhelmed with the reality of taking care of the baby, or if you abuse your priviledges too much, but if you are proactive and helpful to her, and making sure that her needs are also met and she gets some breaks and you also spend time together, it is all good.
baba44713 wrote: So what I'm interested is - was anyone else who visits these forums in this kind of situation, and how did you deal with it? Were you keeping the same lifestyle (as much as parental duties allowed of course), were you "dialing it down", only climbing stuff you know you could climb blindfolded, or did you leave climbing for good? And if you kept climbing, how did you shut up that little voice and deal with those around you that looked at you badly for risking your life with a kid now depending on you?
Dialing down in terms of time commitment-- yes. You have to look for a balance where you are not neglecting your children and spouse in order to participate in your favorite activity. But dialing down in other ways? No.
Hmm, I wonder if you are one of those people who views climbing as daredevil dangerous you-are-a-hair-away-from-death activity? Is this what your little voice tells you? Or are you so influenced by what people around you are saying that you would do what they say even though you believe otherwise?
I do not see myself risking my life every time I go climbing (or rather, do not see myself risking my life significantly more than i do by driving, swimming, biking or skiing). I enjoy climbing, and yes, I know it comes with risks, but so do all activities. I strive to be careful and minimize the risks that are within my control, and accept that life is not without risk, and a life-time risk of death is 100%.
Moreover, I also encourage my children to participate in a variety of activities that, strictly speaking, carry risks of injuries with them-- and I am talking everything from hiking (poisonous snakes! falls! sunburns! dehydration!) to soccer (torn ligaments! broken bones! concussions!) to climbing to skiing to gymnastics and ju-jitsu, because I believe that the rewards far outweigh the risks of these activities and the risks are relatively small.
The exact line where people decide that an activity is O.K. vs. too dangerous depends on the person, and it is a personal decision. I do not judge those who chose to leave their young children and perished in an attempt to climb K2. But I am not doing it myself because my line is drawn in a different place.
I do not care who looks at me badly for being a parent and a climber, because I belive that I am making a reasonable choice. Surprisingly, I do not know all that many people who believe that I am being irresponsible by climbing while there are small children who depend on me, but maybe it is because those people are simply not my friends, or they do not voice those opinions in my presence. Either way, it's fine with me.
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Wunderkind
Mar 23, 2010, 6:37 PM
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Our baby girl is due any day now and we certainly won't be done climbing. If climbing (or any other "risky" activity) is something that you can take or leave then I guess your concerns make sense. For both my wife and I, deciding to give up climbing would be sacrificing a big part of who we are. I don't think my kid is going to want a parent who has given up their passions for the sake of eliminating every conceivable risk from life. The only change I've made since finding out that we'll be responsible for another person is to swear off soloing forever in all circumstances.
Also, if you feel that climbing is a high risk of death every time you go out, that's also a good reason to stop. But it sounds like your concern is more about the time investment than risk of leaving your family alone, right?
Take up bouldering if you want to hang out with baby while being outside and doing something that allows you to stay close by. Also reconsider the people you're hanging out wtih - sounds like they are going to prematurely age you if you keep their company too regularly.
(This post was edited by Wunderkind on Mar 23, 2010, 6:38 PM)
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shockabuku
Mar 23, 2010, 7:04 PM
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I wouldn't totally change my lifestyle because I was having a kid. I would have regretted it if I did. It's almost 18 years since I had my first. There were incremental changes, less time spent on this more time on that etc., but you still need time for yourself and things that you enjoy.
As to the risk element, I think you have to assess how much risk you are taking and how much you're willing to accept. It sounds like you're a pretty low risk climber.
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qtm
Mar 23, 2010, 7:13 PM
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I lost a really good friend over my climbing. I'd been climbing for a few years, just started taking my kid out. My friend, known him since grade school, had just started a family, so was in the "new dad mode". He really laid into me about me being "irresponsible" and "reckless". The accusations really hurt, since I felt there really wasn't a basis for them. So I gave up and stopped talking to him.
I was in "new dad mode" once as well. Gave up a lot of things I used to enjoy, to be a "better dad". Well, it took a while to figure out that giving up those things made me completely miserable, and it wasn't until I started heading back outdoors that I really remembered what it was like to be happy. I realized that all those people telling me I had to stop, didn't really understand who I was in the first place. I also figured out they really didn't know what they were talking about anyway, they were just doing/repeating what everyone else had told them. Seemed as if nobody really thought about it. Well, except my dad, he completely understood, seems like he always understood what was going on.
Today, I'm still climbing. My son climbs with me, most of my friends are climbers climbing parents with climbing kids. I'm far happier than I was back then.
It's been 10 years since I talked to my friend, maybe one of these days I'll call on him and see if he's chilled out, I'm sure he must have by now.
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shimanilami
Mar 23, 2010, 7:50 PM
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I have a 4 year old boy and 6 month old daughter. There're lots of good posts above, so I won't repeat what's been said. Nonetheless ...
I'm climbing the hardest I've ever climbed, despite the fact that I'm climbing less than BC. I attribute this to the adoption of a focused training routine. If you want to keep your performance levels up, you'll probably need to adjust your training approach accordingly.
When my son was born, I stopped climbing entirely for a month. Then I started hitting the gym once a week. After 3 months of this, I came home from work on a Friday evening to find my climbing partner parked in my driveway with all my gear loaded up, plus clothes/sleeping bag/food/beer/etc. My wife told me, "Get the hell out of here. You're driving me nuts." I didn't argue. We went to the Valley and climbed for 3 days. When I got back, my wife and I had a good chat. She told me that I was a different person when I didn't get to climb, and that she didn't like the change. (She used the word "asshole".) She appreciated that I was willing to sacrifice climbing for our family, but at the same time recognized that a compromise needed to be reached. So we worked it out. I get to climb in a gym twice a week, and one weekend a month is "mine". The rest is the family's. So far, so good.
I wish you the best. Good luck!
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dynosore
Mar 23, 2010, 7:55 PM
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I'm in almost the exact same boat as you, kidwise, agewise, length of time climbing etc. I never had any intention of stopping climbing. My wife is ok with it, and I agreed to be extra careful and scaled back some of my plans. I look at it (ie rationalize it) this way: because I get my thrills climbing, I only drink wine, I don't smoke, or use drugs and I'm in great shape. If I didn't have climbing I would tend to find self destructive ways to cut loose like I did in the past. Like so many of you, I am not satisfied by a 8-5 suburban life, I need to blow off steam somehow.
For me the gut wrencher, looking at my 9 month old whom I love more than anything in this world, is "what if I teach him to climb and it kills him someday"? Haven't resolved how to handle this one yet, luckily I have a few years.
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shockabuku
Mar 23, 2010, 8:13 PM
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I suspect you won't get much input here from those who decided to bag climbing permanently when they had kids.
Just sayin'.
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agparker
Mar 23, 2010, 8:14 PM
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I am in kind of on the other end of the climbing/kid spectrum. I have three kids (10, 8, and 4), but have just recently gotten into climbing. It has been a challenge for me to find spare time/money to devote to climbing while trying to raise three kids. I have A LOT of outdoor hobbies, so for me I think if I really want to climb I have to be willing to sacrifice some of my time/money spent on other hobbies to focus on climbing...which at the time is exactly what I am doing. I guess for any parent climber out there, you just have to be willing to make whatever compromises you feel are necessary to give you the time to climb.
Are there any other people out there who were parents before climbers? How did you handle it?
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kovacs69
Mar 23, 2010, 8:17 PM
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dynosore wrote: I'm in almost the exact same boat as you, kidwise, agewise, length of time climbing etc. I never had any intention of stopping climbing. My wife is ok with it, and I agreed to be extra careful and scaled back some of my plans. I look at it (ie rationalize it) this way: because I get my thrills climbing, I only drink wine, I don't smoke, or use drugs and I'm in great shape. If I didn't have climbing I would tend to find self destructive ways to cut loose like I did in the past. Like so many of you, I am not satisfied by a 8-5 suburban life, I need to blow off steam somehow. For me the gut wrencher, looking at my 9 month old whom I love more than anything in this world, is "what if I teach him to climb and it kills him someday"? Haven't resolved how to handle this one yet, luckily I have a few years.
Good point...but "what if" you teach him to drive a car and he dies in a car wreck?? If you live by "what if's" you will not be living at all. I try to live like it will be my last day...someday it will be.
Teach him to climb as safe as possible. You cannot protect them all of the time. All you can do is "your best" in the end.
JB
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lena_chita
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Mar 23, 2010, 8:39 PM
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agparker wrote: I am in kind of on the other end of the climbing/kid spectrum. I have three kids (10, 8, and 4), but have just recently gotten into climbing. It has been a challenge for me to find spare time/money to devote to climbing while trying to raise three kids. I have A LOT of outdoor hobbies, so for me I think if I really want to climb I have to be willing to sacrifice some of my time/money spent on other hobbies to focus on climbing...which at the time is exactly what I am doing. I guess for any parent climber out there, you just have to be willing to make whatever compromises you feel are necessary to give you the time to climb.
Yes.
I have tried climbing before I had kids, but while I really liked it, I wasn't a 'climber' back then. It was just something fun i tried with friends.
I didn't really start climbing until my younger one was 18 months old, and then the bug really bit me.
My kids are 11 and 7 yold now.
I do not htink it is really relevant. Regardless of when you start climbing and become serious about it, you still have to find time for it and that time has to come from somewhere, and finding that time is harder if you have children to take care of.
In my case climbing took time away from other leisure activities and eclipsed them, most other "hobbies" got completely dropped.
I know people who enjoy dabbing in many things and are happy with doing a little bit of this, and a little bit of that. You know-- go climbing to the gym maybe once every couple weeks, go on a weekend trip maybe once or twice a year, do some hiking here and there, some camping here and there, and some yoga here and there, and some knitting here and there.
I know people who focus on one thing primarily, be it yoga, knitting painting or climbing, they get seriously obsessed about it.
I am of the latter category, though before I got seriously into climbing, I was more of the former category.
It sounds like you are still trying to figure out which category you are in, or maybe you are transitioning from first to second. 
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dingus
Mar 23, 2010, 8:39 PM
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Establish your routine now or lose it forever.
My girls are 18 and 13 and at one point I had 9 females living in this house.
I tried to trade off weekend days - I take off Sat, the little woman took off Sunday.
If I get this weekend (sans kids) to go climbing, she gets next weekend to do whatever she wants (while I babysat)
It worked out for the most part.
Cheers
DMT
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olderic
Mar 23, 2010, 8:52 PM
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dynosore wrote: For me the gut wrencher, looking at my 9 month old whom I love more than anything in this world, is "what if I teach him to climb and it kills him someday"? Haven't resolved how to handle this one yet, luckily I have a few years.
I didn't want to get sucked into this thread because it is mostly the same old same old that has been hashed out many times before. But this one struck a cord.
A couple of my kids did end up as climbers (and a couple others did not) they weren't pushed (too much) but certainly encouraged when they showed interest. Will my son has turned into a prolific climber beyond anything I could have imagined. And that has led to some very uncomfortable moments:
1. belaying when he is leading a 12d/13a trad climb while placing the gear (it had previously only been led on pre-placed gear).
2. Decidng we need to solo the next 1000 feet of 5th class alpine rock because night is falling.
3. Hearing "you know I always used to beat Alex Hannold in the comps...".
All true. All things you would do (or listen to) from an equal partner. Not the type of things you want to be doing with your kid. Be careful of what you wish for.
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lena_chita
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Mar 24, 2010, 2:12 AM
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olderic wrote: dynosore wrote: For me the gut wrencher, looking at my 9 month old whom I love more than anything in this world, is "what if I teach him to climb and it kills him someday"? Haven't resolved how to handle this one yet, luckily I have a few years. I didn't want to get sucked into this thread because it is mostly the same old same old that has been hashed out many times before. But this one struck a cord. A couple of my kids did end up as climbers (and a couple others did not) they weren't pushed (too much) but certainly encouraged when they showed interest. Will my son has turned into a prolific climber beyond anything I could have imagined. And that has led to some very uncomfortable moments: 1. belaying when he is leading a 12d/13a trad climb while placing the gear (it had previously only been led on pre-placed gear). 2. Decidng we need to solo the next 1000 feet of 5th class alpine rock because night is falling. 3. Hearing "you know I always used to beat Alex Hannold in the comps...". All true. All things you would do (or listen to) from an equal partner. Not the type of things you want to be doing with your kid. Be careful of what you wish for.
I have thought of this, too. I wonder how Alex Hannold's parents feel when they see photos of him soloing...
It is purely theoretical at this point, but when I hear people gush over my little girl climbing some boulder problem in the gym and say stupid things like "she is the next ...(insert random famous climber name here)... " -- I feel that prideful glow, but I also do wonder about whether it a good thing to encourage her further, and where would this lead.
But in a way, it would be the same if she were doing anything else. It is great to watch her progress in gymnastics, but would I want her to be one of those Olympic gymnasts whose latest serious injury is being discussed on TV and whose tear-streaked face is shown in an intrusive close-up as she is limping away from a bad fall and dashed dreams of a medal?
We encourage our children to excell at what they do, and to pursue their passion, but at the same time we want them to stay at the "safe recreational level" where stakes are minimal?
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JasonsDrivingForce
Mar 24, 2010, 2:32 AM
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+1 and your little girl rocks by the way! Keep doing whatever it is your doing. She definitely seems to be enjoying it.
lena_chita wrote: olderic wrote: dynosore wrote: For me the gut wrencher, looking at my 9 month old whom I love more than anything in this world, is "what if I teach him to climb and it kills him someday"? Haven't resolved how to handle this one yet, luckily I have a few years. I didn't want to get sucked into this thread because it is mostly the same old same old that has been hashed out many times before. But this one struck a cord. A couple of my kids did end up as climbers (and a couple others did not) they weren't pushed (too much) but certainly encouraged when they showed interest. Will my son has turned into a prolific climber beyond anything I could have imagined. And that has led to some very uncomfortable moments: 1. belaying when he is leading a 12d/13a trad climb while placing the gear (it had previously only been led on pre-placed gear). 2. Decidng we need to solo the next 1000 feet of 5th class alpine rock because night is falling. 3. Hearing "you know I always used to beat Alex Hannold in the comps...". All true. All things you would do (or listen to) from an equal partner. Not the type of things you want to be doing with your kid. Be careful of what you wish for. I have thought of this, too. I wonder how Alex Hannold's parents feel when they see photos of him soloing... It is purely theoretical at this point, but when I hear people gush over my little girl climbing some boulder problem in the gym and say stupid things like "she is the next ...(insert random famous climber name here)... " -- I feel that prideful glow, but I also do wonder about whether it a good thing to encourage her further, and where would this lead. But in a way, it would be the same if she were doing anything else. It is great to watch her progress in gymnastics, but would I want her to be one of those Olympic gymnasts whose latest serious injury is being discussed on TV and whose tear-streaked face is shown in an intrusive close-up as she is limping away from a bad fall and dashed dreams of a medal? We encourage our children to excell at what they do, and to pursue their passion, but at the same time we want them to stay at the "safe recreational level" where stakes are minimal? |
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haleymay
Mar 24, 2010, 6:37 AM
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agparker wrote: I am in kind of on the other end of the climbing/kid spectrum. I have three kids (10, 8, and 4), but have just recently gotten into climbing. It has been a challenge for me to find spare time/money to devote to climbing while trying to raise three kids. I have A LOT of outdoor hobbies, so for me I think if I really want to climb I have to be willing to sacrifice some of my time/money spent on other hobbies to focus on climbing...which at the time is exactly what I am doing. I guess for any parent climber out there, you just have to be willing to make whatever compromises you feel are necessary to give you the time to climb. Are there any other people out there who were parents before climbers? How did you handle it?
I was a parent before a climber too. I have a 4 yr old and 2 yr old and have only been climbing about a year. The hardest part for me is finding time/money for climbing w/o feeling guilty about taking it away from them. Being a stay at home mom makes this guilt worse, as well as having a non climbing spouse and friends.
I actually posted a post similar to this a while ago and got some really excellent advice that I think about when I go climbing and it helps me feel less guilty about taking some time for myself.
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quiteatingmysteak
Mar 24, 2010, 7:10 AM
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In reply to: these non-climbing friends started getting out of their way to "get me on the right track", pointing out that I've had my fun, but now it's time to grow up.
Your friends sound like douchebags who'se wives won't let them have fun and want you to join them in the annual superbowl party. It'll be great to bond once a year, you might even get to use the F word every once in a while.
My mom climbed in college, and quit for the same reasons you are citing now. Eighteen years later, she can't get enough of it. She will tell you in a heartbeat that she would have climbed if she had the time (I grew up broke-ass, parents worked multiple jobs).
Being a good father doesn't mean making yourself miserable. It means loving your children and helping them grow into functioning people.
No one should make this decision for you, though it sounds like you already have. A friend I work with used to climb, but not since he had his kid. i asked him to go out one weekend, he said the wife would never let him. "doesn't she want you to be happy?" "You don't understand, it doesn't work like that."
His wife SUCKS. You should be able to be happy. Should you be gone every single weekend, and training hard in the gym every night after work? Hell no. But get away with your partners once in a while and unwind. If you want to. If you want to be in a family where there is constant stress because all you do is give and give and give and no one appreciates it, or you don't have a say in anything going on in your life, go for it. I've seen it a million times.
(This post was edited by quiteatingmysteak on Mar 24, 2010, 7:11 AM)
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quiteatingmysteak
Mar 24, 2010, 7:22 AM
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olderic wrote: dynosore wrote: For me the gut wrencher, looking at my 9 month old whom I love more than anything in this world, is "what if I teach him to climb and it kills him someday"? Haven't resolved how to handle this one yet, luckily I have a few years. I didn't want to get sucked into this thread because it is mostly the same old same old that has been hashed out many times before. But this one struck a cord. A couple of my kids did end up as climbers (and a couple others did not) they weren't pushed (too much) but certainly encouraged when they showed interest. Will my son has turned into a prolific climber beyond anything I could have imagined. And that has led to some very uncomfortable moments: 1. belaying when he is leading a 12d/13a trad climb while placing the gear (it had previously only been led on pre-placed gear). 2. Decidng we need to solo the next 1000 feet of 5th class alpine rock because night is falling. 3. Hearing "you know I always used to beat Alex Hannold in the comps...". All true. All things you would do (or listen to) from an equal partner. Not the type of things you want to be doing with your kid. Be careful of what you wish for.
I have to comment on this, because though I don't have children (should be obvious from the above post :D) I have a younger brother who climbs with me from time to time. Most of the time I do the leading, or whatever, but sometimes he'll jump on the sharp end. When I climb with people, they are CLIMBING PARTNERS, not brother/friend/dad/mom/sister. The relationship is different, and I force myself into being an even half of a working dynamic.
However, every once in a while, I'll watch his foot pop out on lead on some sketchy gear, and go "OH SH!T THATS THE LITTLE GUY!!!"
How you can belay your son on a 12d trad route is beyond me! But good for him, and good for you.
Side note, my mom met alex honnold at the Red Rox Rendezvoo and he talked to her for like 20 minutes about taking HIS mom out climbing and what a blast it was. Mum was very impressed with the lad!
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clee03m
Mar 25, 2010, 8:17 PM
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Hi, I'm married to a non-climber and about to have a baby any day. Just wanted to let you know our weekend arrangement. We have a 3 weekend cycle: my weekend, his weekend, family weekend. During my weekend, I am free to do as I please and my husband would take care of the kid. While I am breastfeeding, he will come with me to the crag and take care of the kid and belay when I am feeding the baby. On his weekend, I can climb as long as I take care of the baby. On our family weekend, I won't climb and do something we both enjoy. We have a similar cycle for weekday as well. My husband has said more than once how nice he thinks we have this arrangement because he likes the idea of being able to have hobbies independent of fatherhood.
I have both climbers and non-climbers as friends, and everyone has been very supportive of my choice to climb both in pregnancy and beyond. While climbing may be more dangerous than playing golf, being inactive and unhappy isn't very good for your health, either. Just make sure your wife gets her equal share of her own time and climb.
And I know, I know, things might change when the baby is here because I may not want to leave the baby with anyone even if it is his own father, blablabla. Still doesn't hurt to plan with what I can see as the most likely future.
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davidnn5
Mar 25, 2010, 8:23 PM
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clee03m wrote: Hi, I'm married to a non-climber and about to have a baby any day. Just wanted to let you know our weekend arrangement. We have a 3 weekend cycle: my weekend, his weekend, family weekend. During my weekend, I am free to do as I please and my husband would take care of the kid. While I am breastfeeding, he will come with me to the crag and take care of the kid and belay when I am feeding the baby. On his weekend, I can climb as long as I take care of the baby. On our family weekend, I won't climb and do something we both enjoy. We have a similar cycle for weekday as well. My husband has said more than once how nice he thinks we have this arrangement because he likes the idea of being able to have hobbies independent of fatherhood.
Heh. This all sounds a bit... Farfetched. Reading the bolded text, it sounds like your husband is going to belay you while you're climbing and feeding the baby?
I also can't see the obligatory x months/years of "wtf this has completely turned my life upside down and even going SHOPPING has become incredibly difficult to organise!"
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clee03m
Mar 26, 2010, 2:19 PM
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Good god, no. Even I'm not that optimistic. My husband will belay my climbing partners when I'm unavailable because I'm breast feeding. We used to climb quiet a bit together so he is a competent belayer. He will otherwise babysit when I'm climbing or belaying not feeding.
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dynosore
Mar 26, 2010, 2:44 PM
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kovacs69 wrote: dynosore wrote: I'm in almost the exact same boat as you, kidwise, agewise, length of time climbing etc. I never had any intention of stopping climbing. My wife is ok with it, and I agreed to be extra careful and scaled back some of my plans. I look at it (ie rationalize it) this way: because I get my thrills climbing, I only drink wine, I don't smoke, or use drugs and I'm in great shape. If I didn't have climbing I would tend to find self destructive ways to cut loose like I did in the past. Like so many of you, I am not satisfied by a 8-5 suburban life, I need to blow off steam somehow. For me the gut wrencher, looking at my 9 month old whom I love more than anything in this world, is "what if I teach him to climb and it kills him someday"? Haven't resolved how to handle this one yet, luckily I have a few years. Good point...but "what if" you teach him to drive a car and he dies in a car wreck?? If you live by "what if's" you will not be living at all. I try to live like it will be my last day...someday it will be. Teach him to climb as safe as possible. You cannot protect them all of the time. All you can do is "your best" in the end. JB
Driving a car is necessary for the most part. Climbing is absolutely optional.
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kovacs69
Mar 26, 2010, 3:18 PM
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dynosore wrote: kovacs69 wrote: dynosore wrote: I'm in almost the exact same boat as you, kidwise, agewise, length of time climbing etc. I never had any intention of stopping climbing. My wife is ok with it, and I agreed to be extra careful and scaled back some of my plans. I look at it (ie rationalize it) this way: because I get my thrills climbing, I only drink wine, I don't smoke, or use drugs and I'm in great shape. If I didn't have climbing I would tend to find self destructive ways to cut loose like I did in the past. Like so many of you, I am not satisfied by a 8-5 suburban life, I need to blow off steam somehow. For me the gut wrencher, looking at my 9 month old whom I love more than anything in this world, is "what if I teach him to climb and it kills him someday"? Haven't resolved how to handle this one yet, luckily I have a few years. Good point...but "what if" you teach him to drive a car and he dies in a car wreck?? If you live by "what if's" you will not be living at all. I try to live like it will be my last day...someday it will be. Teach him to climb as safe as possible. You cannot protect them all of the time. All you can do is "your best" in the end. JB Driving a car is necessary for the most part. Climbing is absolutely optional.
Ok...what if you teach him to ride a bike and he gets hit by a car, what if you teach him to play baseball and he gets hit in the head, what if you teach him to fly a kite and he gets hit by lightning? Life is full of "what if's". The point is you can not spend your time dwelling on the "what if's"...if you do you would never leave home...unless you live in tornado alley, hurricane zone or ...well you get the point.
JB
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dingus
Mar 26, 2010, 4:19 PM
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No no no no climbing is not optional.
DMT
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climbingaz
Mar 26, 2010, 7:02 PM
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Great thread! My little boy is two years old today!!! Happy Birthday little buddy!
I'm not going to lie....becoming a parent has put a dent in my climbing, but I'm totally fine with that. I get out when I can (not as often as I used to), still get to the gym once or twice a week. But here is the thing...you just gotta incorporate the growing family into the sport.
My wife and I climbing Royal Arches when she was 4 months pregnant. My little boy has been to Yosemite twice, J-Tree once, all over the state of AZ. He goes to the gym with me and walks around in his harness.
I think the main difference is I cannot go do those all day, multi-pitch trad lines that I so love. Now it's mostly sport climbing crags...aurgh.
Oh, by the way, we're expecting our second little boy at the end of July!!
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kovacs69
Mar 26, 2010, 7:30 PM
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Oh and I am more worried about my kids getting bitten by a venomous snake than I am of them falling while climbing. At least I have some control of the climbing aspect. Snakes can sneak in while you are distracted. Where I climb any kind of injury / snake bite can be fatal because of the time involved in getting out.
As you can see from my pictures I do run into quite a few snakes.
JB
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dingus
Mar 26, 2010, 8:02 PM
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kovacs69 wrote: Oh and I am more worried about my kids getting bitten by a venomous snake than I am of them falling while climbing. At least I have some control of the climbing aspect. Snakes can sneak in while you are distracted. Where I climb any kind of injury / snake bite can be fatal because of the time involved in getting out. As you can see from my pictures I do run into quite a few snakes. JB
I am FAR FAR FAR more concerned by my kids getting poison oak than snake bit and we hang in prime rattlesnake country.
Peoples' fears of snakes are irrational, yours included.
DMT
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climbingaz
Mar 26, 2010, 8:08 PM
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Oh, I almost forgot. My kid is a trad climber and doesn't care for quickdraws. You gotta bring 'em up right!! hahaaa
(This post was edited by climbingaz on Mar 26, 2010, 8:10 PM)
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karmiclimber
Mar 26, 2010, 8:36 PM
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Don't give up climbing. Be there for your wife, especially in the first year. My daughter's father went climbing every weekened. Basically he told me I didn't matter because I wasn't good at climbing. Plus I made the decision to breastfeed...so it wasn't like I could just leave her. Anyway, he was an extra special douche...which is why we aren't together anymore. So don't lose your climbing, but don't lose your time with your child either...it goes REALLY fast. Good luck!
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kovacs69
Mar 26, 2010, 8:53 PM
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dingus wrote: kovacs69 wrote: Oh and I am more worried about my kids getting bitten by a venomous snake than I am of them falling while climbing. At least I have some control of the climbing aspect. Snakes can sneak in while you are distracted. Where I climb any kind of injury / snake bite can be fatal because of the time involved in getting out. As you can see from my pictures I do run into quite a few snakes. JB I am FAR FAR FAR more concerned by my kids getting poison oak than snake bit and we hang in prime rattlesnake country. Peoples' fears of snakes are irrational, yours included. DMT
DMT,
I am certainly not afraid of snakes. I love finding snakes and I can't wait to pass that on to my kids. But I know that kids will be curious before they will understand the dangers even if emphasized by me.
Hell the other day I saw a snake quickly making its departure into some underbrush. I reached out without thinking grabbed it by the tail and pulled it back out. My climbing partner, who is afraid of snakes, said "Who do you think your are, Steve Irwin?" I have to admit...I didn't even check to see what kind it was until it would have been too late. Lucky me it was a rat snake.
I can see my kids doing that. Can you imagine if it was a rattle-snake, water-moccasin or copperhead? I see these types of snakes all the time where I climb and where my kids would play around during a day of climbing.
As for poison ivy / poison oak...well there is an irrational fear. It can't even slither up on you and really won't take you by surprise. We have pretty much wiped it all out where we climb so I really don't worry about it.
JB
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dingus
Mar 26, 2010, 9:10 PM
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kovacs69 wrote: Hell the other day I saw a snake quickly making its departure into some underbrush.
Exactly.
In reply to: I reached out without thinking grabbed it by the tail and pulled it back out.
No WONDER you worry about your kids.
In reply to: As for poison ivy / poison oak...well there is an irrational fear.
Says the guy who grabs fleeing snakes by the tail, lol.
MY point about however, was not that poison oak is some menace, rather that snakes are even less so.
Hey, don't go grabbing no tiger by the tail brother!
DMT
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kovacs69
Mar 26, 2010, 9:29 PM
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dingus wrote: kovacs69 wrote: Hell the other day I saw a snake quickly making its departure into some underbrush. Exactly. In reply to: I reached out without thinking grabbed it by the tail and pulled it back out. No WONDER you worry about your kids. In reply to: As for poison ivy / poison oak...well there is an irrational fear. Says the guy who grabs fleeing snakes by the tail, lol. MY point about however, was not that poison oak is some menace, rather that snakes are even less so. Hey, don't go grabbing no tiger by the tail brother! DMT
If I don't grab it by the tail then nobody else will believe that it was there. I want to hold it for everyone else to see. Let me tell you...if I find big foot in the hills where I climb he better look out because I won't be grabbing him...I will be jumping on his back and holding on for dear life.
JB
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laurelja
Mar 26, 2010, 9:49 PM
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You go girl. Just as some wives can be bi*@hes about their hubbies leaving to climb, hubbies can be assw*#es too. I started climbing when my daughter was 7. She'd came to the gym with a book and a bag of M&M's and I'd climb as long as I felt she was having fun (she'd boulder occasionally). I never took her out, that was my time to focus on me and my partner and climbing. I never wanted any one to take care of her nor take care of anyone else's kid at the crags. We all make our decisions, find balance in what you want to do and what is right for you and your child (and spouse), and be happy about your choices. If you decide to have a child, decide how that will impact your life..your choice in conjunction with your child and spouse. Your climbing does not have to drop off, if it does don't bemoan what is naturally going to occur: finding balance between being a parent and spouse and your own needs.
She is 18 now and off at college and I can climb all the time.... I sure miss those times with her (climbing or not).
Life changes, it all good
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karmiclimber
Mar 26, 2010, 9:52 PM
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Exactly! Sounds like you did good by your daughter :-)
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baba44713
Mar 27, 2010, 9:30 AM
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Woah... thanks for all the feedback.
To address some issues:
The inherent risk, or perhaps perceived risk of climbing is what I'm worried about the most. I know that this activity is in reality very safe, or better said as safe as you make it to be taking into account the choice of partner, route etc., but the thing is I never actually thought about the risk until now. Or better said, it never really bothered me. In addition to climbing I ski, I cycle, I drive the frikkin car on the freeway. If we're talking statistic, everything is dangerous; climbing only makes this danger more obvious and palatable and easier to point out. However it's one thing when someone says I'm immature and irresponsible for putting my life in danger because of some early onset of midlife crisis - I was putting up with this for a long time and it never really bothered me. But when someone starts pointing out that I'm about to be a parent and to get my head together, THEN it starts bothering me.
A huge part of the problem is that almost all of my non-climbing friends are parents, while the vast majority my climbing friends aren't. Those few of the climbing variety that did get children simply phased out from our climbing gang somehow - adding to my paranoia.
As for the thing that my worry is neglecting my wife and child over climbing - this really isn't the issue for me. I love to climb, but it doesn't mean that I cannot put it on hold or slow it down. A training or two in the gym during the week, one weekend in a month or two on the rocks and I'm happy. Even pausing six months or a year completely does not concern me. However the notion of giving it up COMPLETELY is what I simply cannot fathom - packing my gear for good, saying goodbye to all of my climbing friends and joining the non-climbers and their neverending talks of how funny that thing their kid said yesterday was and how good it is to throw a BBQ party once in a while, all that fresh air and everything. Ugh.
So, again, thanks for all the feedback. I guess I am a little bit more encouraged to NOT give up climbing, even though - as someone said - all those folks who were in the similar situation and who did give up aren't really going to post here, right?
Cheers!
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dingus
Mar 27, 2010, 10:58 AM
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baba44713 wrote: As for the thing that my worry is neglecting my wife and child over climbing - this really isn't the issue for me. I love to climb, but it doesn't mean that I cannot put it on hold or slow it down. A training or two in the gym during the week, one weekend in a month or two on the rocks and I'm happy. Even pausing six months or a year completely does not concern me. However the notion of giving it up COMPLETELY is what I simply cannot fathom - packing my gear for good, saying goodbye to all of my climbing friends and joining the non-climbers and their neverending talks of how funny that thing their kid said yesterday was and how good it is to throw a BBQ party once in a while, all that fresh air and everything. Ugh.
These dudes went on an expedition. As they were sorting gear the team came on the case of Jack Daniels.
"I think that's TOO MUCH WHISKEY!" The lead guy said.
So off they went. All to soon our erstwhile leader learned... a case of Jack Daniels?
I wasn't nearly ENOUGH!
Now you don't be doing that 'once ever other month... or so.... dear.... is good for me! Why I can go SIX MONTHS DARLING, a YEAR!!!!!11111
See that spot on the couch? The worn spot on the TV remote <next> channel button? That middle aged fat guy with a teenager who 'just wants to get back into it?'
Don't let that be you man. Encroachment is not just a football penalty. Climbing encroachment is a serious malady!
DMT
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Kartessa
Mar 27, 2010, 4:08 PM
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Just my $0.02
Those non-climbing buddies who try to judge you and your choices can suck it. Those climbing buddies who gave up on something they love to stay home and let their identities be consumed by their new spouse and child can suck it too, they're pansies with no sense of self.
The first few months, you have no control in your life, baby will rule you and the easiest way to get through it is to go with the flow but once they can sleep through the night, has daily routines and the universe is at peace again, it'll be time to take back your life... Or at least a little piece of it.
I'm a single mum, with ZERO contact with the father (I like it that way, less drama), and when I'm not broken, I get out to the gym/cragging at least 2-3 times a week, usually with my son. I manage a nice out-of-towner sans baby once every two to three months too.
My grandmother always tells me that I'm being irresponsible and wreckless, but then again, she offers to babysit for me every Saturday. Maybe she does get it after all.
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karmiclimber
Mar 29, 2010, 1:09 PM
Post #46 of 51
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Registered: Mar 11, 2004
Posts: 1058
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Sounds like you have your head on straight. That is a totally normal fear! I went through that. I was afraid I would be injured (or worse yet, die) climbing and that would be selfish because my daughter needed me. The one thing that made me feel better? LOL....picking out godparents I really trusted and making a great will. Honestly, I think that will give you some good piece of mind. It is better to do what you love and risk injury or even your life, than sit at home fretting about death. You would want your daughter to LIVE her life...and you should give a good example :-)
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agparker
Mar 30, 2010, 3:52 AM
Post #47 of 51
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Registered: Nov 12, 2009
Posts: 11
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Godparents...and half a million in life insurance.
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karmiclimber
Mar 30, 2010, 3:13 PM
Post #48 of 51
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Registered: Mar 11, 2004
Posts: 1058
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Yes, just make sure that "death by rockclimbing" is covered under your policy. Non-parents don't understand, but taking care of details like this will make or break my push for summit or decision to go for the next bolt on a run out climb.
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clee03m
Apr 11, 2010, 5:23 PM
Post #49 of 51
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Registered: Oct 29, 2004
Posts: 785
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agparker wrote: Godparents...and half a million in life insurance.
LOL I was about to say the same thing. Good to know, while disability insurance seems to include a rock climbing exclusion for the most part, life insurance doesn't seem to have that. Actually a trust may not be a bad thing--in case both you and your spouse die.
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petsfed
Apr 11, 2010, 7:56 PM
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Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 8599
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Speaking as a person without children, I really have no input.
However, as a child of happy parents, I can assure you that the only way to grow up in a healthy fashion is to have happy parents. "Staying together for the kids" leads kids to be deeply dysfunctional, as do a lot of other "for the kids" decisions.
Your kids will pick up on resentment, even if you don't. Obviously, a balance has to be struck between your responsibilities and your desires. But that balance is a lot more complex than just fulfilling physical needs like food and shelter. Parenting is about ensuring that your kids reach adulthood as healthy, happy (mostly) adults, not just ensuring that they reach adulthood alive. Make your parenting decisions accordingly.
The only bit of insight I have for you is that I was least happy with diminished climbing when it happened on somebody else's terms. If you climb less because you want to spend time with your kid and your child shows no interest in climbing, or is too young to climb, you'll probably be really comfortable with your choice. But if you climb less simply because of what other people say, you'll be miserable.
By the way, per hour spent doing it, climbing is MUCH more dangerous than driving. But per person doing it, climbing is safer than driving. Its just that the entire world spends A LOT more time driving than climbing, so the real impact is lost in the noise.
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shockabuku
Apr 12, 2010, 12:19 AM
Post #51 of 51
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Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4868
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Just got back from a nice day of climbing with two of my daughters (12 & 17). New crag (to us), up a scree gully in the canyon. Beautiful scenery, very nice climbing. The older one says "We need to come back here next weekend".
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