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junkie
Dec 17, 2002, 6:43 PM
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Hi all,
Just trying to compile a list of all teh hardest trad lines in the world. All the knowledge of the www.rockclimbing.com forum is sought.
What I've got so far:
Magic Line, Ron Kauk, 14b
Bellavista, Alex Huber, 14b
Equilibrium E10 7a F8b/+, 14 a/b
Doctor Doolittle, John Arran, E10 7a F8b, 13d
Lost Horizons: Rob Candilera (sp?), 14a
Grand Illusion: Tony Yaniro, 13c
Smoked Salmon, Johnny Dawes, E8 7a/b, 13d
Thanks for any and all help. All I'm after is TRAD climbs from 13d and up.
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pbjosh
Dec 17, 2002, 7:30 PM
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If you're going for 13d+ there are some more in CA that I know of:
Stingray 13d PG, jtree, Hidetaki Suzuki
Dihedron 14a, jtree, Randy Leavitt
Book of Hate, 13d, yos, Randy Leavitt
The Nose, 13d-14b, yos, Lynn Hill
There're some stout ones in Utah as well, there's Belly Full of Bad Berries (13c/d OW I believe) and Dean Potter's new route, though I don't know what it's rated and can't remember what it's called.
In Colorado there's Country Boy, 13d, Tommy Caldwell
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rockprodigy
Dec 17, 2002, 7:57 PM
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You gotta include the East Face of Monkey Face 13c/d at Smith Rock. It was the hardest in the US for over a year.
Also I heard that the South Face of Washington Column was recently freed at 14a.
There was an article in R&I about 5 or 6 years ago that had all of the hardest trad routes at the time.
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polarwid
Dec 17, 2002, 8:52 PM
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[small]This topic was moved to the Climbing History & Trivia forum by polarwid[/small]
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junkie
Dec 17, 2002, 9:33 PM
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Does anyone know of any from abroad? Europe? Australia? Any TRAD lines 13d and up world wide?
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junkie
Dec 18, 2002, 4:49 PM
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I did not put the Nose on the list, as Lynn Hill called it 13b at the time of the ascent. Until that changes, 13b is what it's at.
As for Bellyfull of Bad Berries, I thought it was 13a or b.
Could someone confirm the grade of Bellyfull?
What about Australia? Any trad lines 31 and over down under? C'mon, there have gotta be some hardmen down there pushing the trad. France? Oh. Sorry, all the lines are bolted... Germany? Anyone else....????
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tigerbythetail
Dec 22, 2002, 4:26 PM
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In Oz there is -
Whistling Kite(31) a thin crack at Frog Butress by Paul Smith (UK)
Serpentine(30/31) mixed route at Mt. Stapylton by Malcolm Matheson (OZ)
Honorable mention to -
Ozymandias (29) 8 pitches/300 meters at Mt. Buffalo by Steve Monks (UK)
[ This Message was edited by: tigerbythetail on 2002-12-22 08:59 ]
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junkie
Dec 23, 2002, 6:22 PM
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Unfortunately I've climbed Serpentine. It's only 28/29.
But Whistling Kite is on my list!
Thanks!
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marks
Dec 23, 2002, 6:42 PM
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ultimate sculpture-e8 7a
a little particular-e6 7b
thing on a spring-e6 7a
against the grain-e6 7a
all in staffordshire,uk.
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hallm
Dec 23, 2002, 7:29 PM
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FYI, according to reports, the 14a pitch on the South Face of the Column is the Kor Roof, which is sport bolted. If I remember correctly, the rest of the route goes at easy 12.
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coclimber26
Dec 26, 2002, 8:31 PM
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Isn't bellavista in italy a 14a/b? put up by alex huber?
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rockprodigy
Dec 26, 2002, 8:54 PM
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Oh yeah, and another one is Steve Petro's "Fiddler on the Roof" in Fremont Canyon, Wyoming. It's supposedly 13d and hasn't been repeated. It looks funking hard.
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crack_head
Mar 3, 2003, 11:31 PM
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welcome to ole kentuck 5.13c
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kinz
Mar 3, 2003, 11:59 PM
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what is the route that went up in the UK a couple months ago that was arguably a 14d or maybe slightly harder? i remember if you fell at the crux the belayer had to start running down the hill to keep the climber from decking and even then it was a close call due to such a long run out.
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kinz
Mar 3, 2003, 11:59 PM
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what is the route that went up in the UK a couple months ago that was arguably a 14d or maybe slightly harder? i remember if you fell at the crux the belayer had to start running down the hill to keep the climber from decking and even then it was a close call due to such a long run out.
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iamthewallress
Mar 4, 2003, 1:05 AM
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Did Scott Burke ever offer up a # for the Nose?
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iamthewallress
Mar 4, 2003, 1:09 AM
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The controversial crux on the Direct on Half Dome is rated 5.13d.
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moeman
Mar 4, 2003, 1:19 AM
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What about that 5.13 crack rout T. Caldwell set up in Colorado? Was that trad?, and anyone know the rating?
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mungeclimber
Mar 4, 2003, 1:42 AM
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In reply to: You gotta include the East Face of Monkey Face 13c/d at Smith Rock. It was the hardest in the US for over a year. Also I heard that the South Face of Washington Column was recently freed at 14a. There was an article in R&I about 5 or 6 years ago that had all of the hardest trad routes at the time.
East Face of Monkey Face I thought was bolted by bouldering the moves out bolt to bolt???
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caseyhyer
Mar 6, 2003, 7:28 PM
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Scott Burke told me he thought it was a 14a. He spent over 300 days on it and did it on top rope last I knew. I haven't seen him for a few years.
Scott Carson from IME has done some super hard cracks just north of Lake powell
He did one that was around 13c/d and red pointed while placing.
That is also were noway jose is 13d
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me_lad
Mar 6, 2003, 8:31 PM
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Recently Adrian Berry sent BLIND VISION E10 7b.
Which is a contender for hardest trad line ever with Ron Kauk's Magic line.
Its in england somewhere at frogatt or somewhere..
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camhead
Mar 6, 2003, 8:55 PM
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As I recall, Belly Full of Bad Berries is an easy 5.13...
I agree with Kinz, we need some of the Brits to represent their Gritstone in this thread.
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bvb
Mar 6, 2003, 9:21 PM
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gee, did consensus ratings ever settle out for the van belle cracks (vanbelladrome, the van belle syndrome) in yosemite? they were both in the high 5.13 range last time i checked.
let's check with ronamick...i'm sure he's done them both :roll:
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phoenix
Mar 7, 2003, 12:25 AM
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Located at Index, WA is a dead vertical/overhanging finger wrenching crack call City Park: this crack has only seen two lead ascents. Skinner rated it 13.C, but after 17 years and only two ascents...I'm thinking it might be a little harder. :shock: Has anyone heard of a third ascent?
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arsenalcrater
Mar 7, 2003, 1:47 AM
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Yeah, I think that route you are asking (Tommy Caldwell) is called T.H.I.O.. The "Honeymoon is Over. I think he rated it at 13c. Pretty smooth for that elevation...it's on the Diamond of Long's Peak...and I think he did it with no falls. If I'm wrong about the beta I still won't apologize, 'cause that's a pretty damn good accomplishment. Also, wasn't there a 13c/d put up on the Eiger a few years ago by a husband/wife team???
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phoenix
Mar 7, 2003, 1:54 AM
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The Honeymoon is Over has bolts...does that consitute trad? Perhaps it is more contingent on the number of bolts used...like the Bacher-Yerian isn't exactly a sport climb.
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yossarian
Mar 7, 2003, 3:17 AM
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In reply to: Located at Index, WA is a dead vertical/overhanging finger wrenching crack call City Park: this crack has only seen two lead ascents. Skinner rated it 13.C, but after 17 years and only two ascents...I'm thinking it might be a little harder. :shock: Has anyone heard of a third ascent?
Some would argue only one ascent as the 2nd had camhooks for feet.
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bigwalling
Mar 7, 2003, 6:59 AM
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I know a route that will go at 14a or so but I'm not telling. And it is a finger crack. :)
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rockprodigy
Mar 7, 2003, 6:30 PM
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In reply to: East Face of Monkey Face I thought was bolted by bouldering the moves out bolt to bolt???
There are no bolts on the East Face. What are you talking about? According to the guidebook (which hasn't been updated since '92). It was never actually redpointed, I believe it was "pink-pointed" (may have been yo-yo'd, I don't have my book with me, so I'm not positive) and Alan Watts never got around to doing the full redpoint, what with all the other kick-ass routes to be done.
Nevertheless, it's a splitter finger crack, 13c/d done in '83 and was the hardest route in the country for over a year.
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grandwall
Mar 7, 2003, 6:58 PM
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Zombie Roof 5.13a
Sixty-Nine 5.13c R
Shallow Penetration. Beside Sixty-Nine, a harder line. I don't think anyone's freed it yet.
Cobra Crack on the backside of the Chief (potential grade of 14a apparently). Also, no ascents but if you're looking for a project...
Squamish has spoken.
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badphish
May 5, 2003, 10:29 PM
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what about trauma? its like a 13r/x right?
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peas
May 5, 2003, 11:52 PM
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Thank you grandwall. I was going to have to go home and get out the guidebook tonight. You saved me that effort.
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mesomorf
May 6, 2003, 12:44 AM
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In reply to: another one is Steve Petro's "Fiddler on the Roof" in Fremont Canyon, Wyoming. It's supposedly 13d and hasn't been repeated.
Doesn't count. Manufactured.
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squeek
May 6, 2003, 10:10 PM
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Quite a few hard trad routes in the UK, which are E10 7a/7b. The only one to have been repeated is Equilibrium which is E10 7a UK, which apparently converts to 5.14a according to one chart.
The climb Adrian Berry climbed Blind Vision was E10 7b, so is harder than that (theoreticaly at least.)
It's converting between grades though, and the UK grade system is harder to directly convert than most.
Grade table - http://www.rockfax.com/miniguides/grades.html
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brianinslc
May 6, 2003, 11:49 PM
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Yaniro's Boogeyman in the City of Rocks. 5.14a?
Can't recall, but seemed to be another in that catagory at the City as well.
For a trad lead, I'd say Lynn's ascent of the Nose, with the changing corners pitch especially, has to rank right up there...
Brian in SLC
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rockprodigy
May 7, 2003, 1:47 PM
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In reply to: Doesn't count. Manufactured.
Care to elaborate? I've never heard anything about that being manufactured...did Petro do it?
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high
May 18, 2003, 1:19 AM
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some would also argue that City Park in Index, WA has never been freed by anyone with feet...tood skinner reportedly hung all over it during the month that he camped under the one pitch route, and after he finally pieced it together bailed off of onto Godzilla -thus never completed a true, complete free ascent. what a fag. bring on the hubers, i'd like to see them get on it...anyone got their number? they can crash at our pad, free room and bonghits.
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crackaddict
May 18, 2003, 2:06 AM
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How come there are no off widths on here?
Like
Lucille 13a
Trench warfare 12d
And Belly Full of Bad Berries is only an easy 13
Are we so blinded numbers on here?
I can see that these are not rated 5.14. But are some of the hardest wide cracks to climb. Which is also one of the hardest techniques for most climbers to master.
Someone needs to give these climbs some credit.
They are hard trad lines
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antagonism
May 18, 2003, 2:26 AM
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Adam Stack sent China Doll at 5.13 c/d in Dream Canyon, Colorado. This was an old aid line with bolts, but when he sent he placed all of his own gear.
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hasbeen
May 18, 2003, 4:59 AM
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Unless something has broken, the South Face of the Column is about 13a/b. Kevin Thaw and I worked on it about 10 years ago. It was pretty easy at first but we broke a jug off, making it harder. We never went back to redpoint it but Kevin did the hard part on TR. However, there was still another jug in the roof. It that pulled, I could see it being really hard.
There was one other part that was hard, the bolted section off the next pitch. It might be 14. We went over to Skull Queen and back across and figured it would need a bolt to do safely. About 5.12 our way.
John Dunne has two routes rated 5.14. One is up some gulley in the Lake District with a 2 hour approach. The other is way out there in, like, northern Scottland with an insane approach. I forget a exactly. It's suppose to have protected 5.14 but a death fall off of 5.12 on a 160' pitch. There must be some info around somewhere.
There are stacks of 13+ headpoint routes in England.
John Duran did Date With Death, which he rated 14a. However, the crux is bolt protected but the bottom is super scary crack climbing with bad pro. It's controversial, and I think has been declared much easier, via toprope. It doesn't have a second ascent.
This is all old stuff. There must have been some newer hard routes. Isn't there a bunch on El Cap? Lurking Fear must be that hard, at least. And the Muir got freed at 14, right? What sis that kid from England do up there, Leo Holding? I reckon something else hard. I know he and Kevin had at something last year.
You might try asking Mick at Rock Fax. He usually knows this stuff.
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rockprodigy
May 20, 2003, 1:59 PM
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In reply to: bailed off of onto Godzilla
He bailed onto Godzillay because some local A-hole (much like yourself) smeared grease into the crack. I can't understand why anyone would do this, especially if you have no hope of climbing the route yourself, which can be said for every climber in the entire state of Washington.
He was well past the crux anyway.
Takes-one to know-one, Na-nah-na-nah-na-nah-na!!
When you've sent 5.13 trad in impeccable style, then you can pass judgment on the likes of Todd Skinner. Otherwise, shut up.
Hey, I see you live in Washington, why don't you go send it? If a "fag" like skinner can do it, I'm sure you can to!
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rockprodigy
May 20, 2003, 2:05 PM
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Here is my reference for the South Face:
http://www.stanford.edu/.../yos/longhf.htm#wash
I haven't climbed it, so I'm just going off this website. Here's what he says for the crux pitches:
"FFA - Matt Wilder, 10/3/02
-start with 2 pitches to Dinner Ledge, using a 60 meter rope
-p3 (Kor Roof): 5.8 to 5.10 move to V10 (crux boulder problem at roof) to 5.11a diagonal crack above the roof.
-p4: face climb right of the aid line (towards Skull Queen), 5.11b, then back left across the aid line and make a thin undercling left on a small feature, 5.12c. "
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rockprodigy
May 20, 2003, 2:14 PM
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In reply to: How come there are no off widths on here? ... ...Are we so blinded numbers on here? .... ...Which is also one of the hardest techniques for most climbers to master
I doubt many people would argue that wide cracks are difficult, however, they are not the hardest cracks around. If more people climbed wide cracks, they would get climbed more, but people don't because they are unpleasant.
Here's a paraphrase from a wide-crack master, Craig Luebben: "These wide cracks aren't that hard. If people had some place to train for these techniques, they would get done all the time, the problem is, there's just nowhere to train." I don't remember the exact wording, but he said that after the "summer of the offwidth" when he repeated 3 notorious wide cracks (I believe Trench Warfare and Lucille were among them).
In reply to: Trench warfare 12d
This has seen multiple ascents, at least 4 I know of, probably way more.
In reply to: Belly Full of Bad Berries
...also seen multiple ascents.
...not many ascents, but that's 'cause nobody climbs at Vedauwo (sp?)
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roclimb
May 20, 2003, 3:58 PM
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the Herr Roof in Pennsylvania is about 5.13d
~Rob H
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crackwhore
May 20, 2003, 5:04 PM
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who has repeated Belly full-o-bad Berries and Liquid Sky on the six shooter ??
it took steph and dean 2 years of on and off effort to free Epitaph,
although someone with smaller fingers might do so quicker, this probably qualifies as one of the harder single pitches done yet.
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hasbeen
May 20, 2003, 5:27 PM
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Okay, the roof could be V10, but that ain't 5.14 unless you're pumped when you do it. And I guarantee you he's not pumped at that point.
They did the SQ traverse across the top of the little roof. Without adding a bolt, that seems pretty stout as it's a pretty bad fall on really insecure climbing. But climbers are better now, so maybe it's a cake walk these days.
Anyway, it's cool that it finally got ticked.
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rockprodigy
May 21, 2003, 5:21 AM
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In reply to: who has repeated Belly full-o-bad Berries and Liquid Sky on the six shooter
Eric Decaria, for one, and I'm pretty sure a few others, but I'm not about to dig through all my back issues to find the references. I think Brad Jackson's done it, but dont quote me....
Liquid Sky has been repeated at least once. Besides, dangerous is different than hard. It's "only" 5.12, remember?
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alpinestylist
Jun 1, 2003, 10:05 PM
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Matt Lizzenby of Grand JUnction, CO
you've never heard of him, but he sends OW like no other I know of.
He flashed Liquid Sky with a friend of mine. I know he's sent Trench Warfare and a host of other nasties.
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clintcummins
Jun 11, 2003, 7:24 AM
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In reply to: Okay, the roof could be V10, but that ain't 5.14 unless you're pumped when you do it. And I guarantee you he's not pumped at that point.
The 5.14a got put on the page as an attempt to compare it with other
routes. But of course such a comparison of a short very hard section
to something else like a long sustained pitch is probably futile.
And as was pointed out in another post, it's bolted there, so it's
not a trad pitch as sought by the original post in this thread.
In reply to: They did the SQ traverse across the top of the little roof. Without adding a bolt, that seems pretty stout as it's a pretty bad fall on really insecure climbing. But climbers are better now, so maybe it's a cake walk these days.
http://www.stanford.edu/...os/SouthFaceTopo.jpg
In reply to: Anyway, it's cool that it finally got ticked.
Clint Cummins
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clintcummins
Jun 11, 2003, 7:35 AM
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In reply to: Scott Burke told me he thought it was a 14a. He spent over 300 days on it and did it on top rope last I knew. I haven't seen him for a few years.
the pitch. He had to do it differently than the way Lynn Hill
did it, because he is taller and did not fit into the way she
stemmed it. So let's say the rating is rather height-dependent.
Clint Cummins
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clintcummins
Jun 11, 2003, 7:51 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Located at Index, WA is a dead vertical/overhanging finger wrenching crack call City Park: this crack has only seen two lead ascents. Skinner rated it 13.C, but after 17 years and only two ascents...I'm thinking it might be a little harder. :shock: Has anyone heard of a third ascent? Some would argue only one ascent as the 2nd had camhooks for feet.
I agree that Hugh Herr's ascent belongs in a separate category
because of his special footwear. But it was still an interesting
accomplishment, and not easy.
Just recently I found out about a third/second free ascent of City Park,
by Chris Schlotfeldt, in the fall of 1999. He led it with preplaced gear.
He also toproped it 5 times. Although it was not a redpoint like
Skinner's ascent (except Skinner had one piece of gear that he
lowered from and did not clean), even on preplaced gear or toprope
it qualifies as free by some definition. And in the original post in
this thread, Kauk's route Magic Line was listed as a free trad route;
it was led with preplaced gear.
There are a few more details on Chris Schlotfeldt's ascent(s),
a topo and photo at:
http://www.stanford.edu/~clint/index/index.htm
near the bottom of the page, under Updates.
Darryl Cramer told me he has heard of at least one other
claim of a free ascent of City Park as well.
Clint Cummins
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rockprodigy
Jun 11, 2003, 5:10 PM
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Clint, thanks for the info. That's a cool topo for City Park. Do you know what the correct rating is on the RNW Face of Half Dome? When Dean Potter did his linkup of HD and El Cap, Climbing magazine quoted him as saying he and Alex [Huber] both think the 2nd to last pitch is "solid 12d". Yet, in the rest of the article they say the route is 12a which is the only other rating I've seen for it.t.
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xxxxgold
Jun 21, 2003, 11:47 PM
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I saw someone asking about routes in Australia that are entirely trad. Malcolm Matheson is the undeniable king of Australian trad climbing. The Great Shark Hunt weighs in at about 13d on the YDS, 30/31 on the Ewbank scale. Another route worthy of mention is Welcome to Barbados, this route is only around 13b/c but it is a 50 metre long pitch, consisting entirely of roof! Just the weight of the rack is enough to make me sore... For anyone wanting a pic of this climb go to http://www.onsight.com.au/gallery/locations/index.htm and choose 'The Grampians' in Victoria, it is on the second thumbnail sheet in the middle of the bottom row. Plenty of other inspirational photos too for anyone interested in Australian climbing.
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petsfed
Jun 22, 2003, 2:32 AM
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A lot of people climb at Vedauwoo. On the weekends. And they're all from Fort Collins. I have to fight them off with a stick.
For what its worth, Jay Anderson rated Lucille 13a after nearly a decade of battling the beast for the first ascent. Then Craig Luebben did the second ascent onsight, said it was 12d, and that rating has remained. A grand total of 6 unique redpoints have occurred. Luebben apparently did the 4th free ascent as well. The reason it has not seen more is because off-widthing is hard enough with out feldspar scalpels ripping at your flesh through a crack that makes me cry just to look at.
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rockprodigy
Jul 17, 2003, 4:18 PM
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I just got back from a trip to the N. Cascades in Washington. We did Liberty Bell, and I would like to add the second pitch, "Lithuanian Roof" to the list of hard trad lines. It's rated "only" 13a or b, but it looks pretty hard...mostly fixed gear, however.
While we were there, we stopped at Index...climbed Gorillas and got to look at City Park on rappel. First of all, it's not overhanging...possibly vertical but that is it. I would say that it definitely is free-able, and I don't doubt that Skinner could have done it way back then. I won't speculate on the grade (ha, ha), but it is "all there"...decent finger locks the entire way with feet that would be considered very good by Indian Creek standards.
As to the question of why it hasn't been repeated. We were there in July...it was hot as balls and the humidity felt like Alabama. I guess there are very few "redpoint-able" days in any give year there...probably less than 10 days when you would seriously be able to give it an attempt...some time in the fall or spring (maybe it's wet in the spring?) So assuming it's in that time period, you have to avoid the rain which is almost every day during that time.
It's also not like an I-Creek climb that you can walk up to with no beta and send...it's very beta-dependent...varying pin scar fingerlocks. So, not only do you have to have a good day for the redpoint, but you have to have the thing wired before you try it.
Finally, Washington ain't exactly the center of the universe for hard free climbing. Good rock climbers don't live there, and they don't travel there either...all the good climbers are mountaineers, and mountaineers don't usually climb 5.13 cracks. If this were in California, Utah, or Colorado, it would have seen many ascents by now.
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melekzek
Jul 17, 2003, 4:40 PM
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In reply to: Also, wasn't there a 13c/d put up on the Eiger a few years ago by a husband/wife team???
Is it Robert/Daniela Jasper? Their route Symphonie d´libertee on Eiger northwall is 8a 10- (5.13b/c) but I have no idea whether it is a bolted climb or trad.
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slabbyd
Jul 17, 2003, 5:54 PM
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Climbing a 5.9 then speculating about how easy the neighboring 5.13 is makes you sound like a fool IMHO.
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offwidthclimber
Jul 17, 2003, 6:08 PM
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In reply to: Finally, Washington ain't exactly the center of the universe for hard free climbing. Good rock climbers don't live there, and they don't travel there either...all the good climbers are mountaineers, and mountaineers don't usually climb 5.13 cracks. If this were in California, Utah, or Colorado, it would have seen many ascents by now.
way to go, UTARD. that statement shows you're an ignorant jackass who obviously knows nothing about climbing in WA.
and rappelling past a route doesn't mean you have any idea about its alleged difficulty. it's all baseless speculation. what a joke. did you hop on and give it a try?
heh. tool.
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snafflehound
Jul 17, 2003, 7:17 PM
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Actually, OWC, I believe the term is "troll"
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stuck
Jul 17, 2003, 8:04 PM
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I can assure you, there are plenty of excellent rock climbers in washington. There is me for example, and i can name a handfull of sickeningly strong boulderers. There is also a fair share of awesome roped climbers.
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rockprodigy
Jul 17, 2003, 8:23 PM
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In reply to: I can assure you, there are plenty of excellent rock climbers in washington. There is me for example, and i can name a handfull of sickeningly strong boulderers. There is also a fair share of awesome roped climbers.
I hereby retract my statement that there are no good free climbers in Washington...that was stupid to say, as if I would know.
What I do know is that City Park hasn't been repeated by a complete person...why is that?
Is Todd Skinner really that good? I think he's a great climber, but come on...all his other routes have been repeated.
It must have something to do with its location, right?
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stuck
Jul 17, 2003, 8:34 PM
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Yes, location does have a lot to do with it. If city park were in California it would most likely be greasy as plumbers ass crack. True Washington has fewer climbers than many (most?) states, but one shouldn't make the assumption that there is a dearth of quality rock and badass climbers.
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hasbeen
Jul 18, 2003, 12:07 AM
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That story on City Park, by Jeff Smoot, is outstanding. I recommend it to anyone that's interested in climbing history. He's right on about Todd, sorta, but I think he didn't capture the positive side to him enough. Sure, he's been a bit ethically shakey and driven by ego, but he's a gem of a guy. Just tops. One of the most positive and infectious guys you can be around. If you can hang out with Todd and not be psyched about life, then ya might as well give it up.
Ultra technical cracks like this are just fascinating to climb. Any more stories like this out there?
Are there any cracks as hard as Magic Line? Does anyone know if anyone's ever attempted that thing? Friend of mine belayed Kauk on it a bunch and said it was absurd. I've been on Coffin' Nail (I think tha's the name), which is one of those ultra thin technical nightmares that make you wonder how much more technical something can get (solve a section one time, then forget how it went and can't even move the next). Well Kauk used to do laps on it training for ML. Hmmm.
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kalcario
Jul 18, 2003, 12:26 AM
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*I've been on Coffin' Nail (I think tha's the name), which is one of those ultra thin technical nightmares that make you wonder how much more technical something can get (solve a section one time, then forget how it went and can't even move the next). Well Kauk used to do laps on it training for ML. Hmmm.*
You mean Stigma?
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hasbeen
Jul 18, 2003, 2:05 AM
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No, not Stigma. This is left of that. I think a bit left of Crack A Go-Go. Old aid line that's now bolted. REALLY thin, not like Stigma, which is sorta thin (but steeper).
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akd
Jul 18, 2003, 4:01 AM
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Junkie,
I don't know if people had already mentioned it, but there's a very hard trad line in Sweden, rated 8b+ or 5.14a.
The name is Puss Pa Morfar (Kiss on Grandpa, or something like that), and before Magnus Lindstedt sent it, Neil Gresham deemed the line impossible (after rapelling it down).
Here's a link to the video, which lacks of quality, but is a must see just for watching the magnificent effort of the climber.
Note: there's NO pre-place gear...
http://www.highsport.se/filmer/
2:40 secs, and almost 4 megas
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alwaysforward
Jul 18, 2003, 5:27 AM
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Did Dean Potter rate his one pitch free ascent of Tombstone?
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alpnclmbr1
Jul 18, 2003, 5:41 AM
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Puss Pa Morfar
That was a sweet video, thanks.
re: the comments on fiddler, if you look at it, it sure looks like it was pinned out to fit someone's hand size. Can't say by who.
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bolthappy
Jul 18, 2003, 1:34 PM
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WARNING:
It started when a link to this tread was posted on a North West Spray board,www.cascadeclimbers.com. Incited by the slam of Washington climbers by ROCKPRODIGY pages of spray soon rolled of the keyboards. Than a few of the hardcore sprayers sent each other PM's, soon there was talk of a car pool to hunt down this wanker and kick his ars, it then grew to such great proportions that a tour buss has been rented and a road trip is in the works. The local spraymasters, one from Canada, one from Washington and one from Oregon, with posts in the thousands ,these are no cubical warriors they spray 24/7's and are proposing a hack, First they are going to hack into his computer steal some pictures of ROCKPOO and post them on porn sites , fill his email with disgusting spam, and last burn his hard drive with a mega virus that can jump through the screen and eat your face if you try to delete it.
:shock: :twisted:
BOHICA
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rockprodigy
Jul 18, 2003, 6:28 PM
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In reply to: WARNING: It started when a link to this tread was posted on a North West Spray board,www.cascadeclimbers.com.
Well you still haven't given any explanation better than mine for why City Park hasn't been repeated.
I checked out my thread on cascadeclimbers.com, and they're offering money to Canadians to come down to Index to try it.
YOU TELL ME!
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bolthappy
Jul 18, 2003, 7:07 PM
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Just a joke ,lighten up dude .It's all about fun!!!
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brianinslc
Jul 18, 2003, 7:38 PM
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In reply to: ...First they are going to hack into his computer steal some pictures of ROCKPOO and post them on porn sites....
Hate to drop dime, but, you need look no further for a picture of "rockpoo" than page 73 of your current Rock and Ice magazine (September? Already? What up with that...).
You can tell he's a poser. Just look at him, starin' at the dirt, hands in his pockets...lookin' ever so slightly guilty about "something"...
(man this is a funny thread...!)
Sorry, Mike...(har har)...
Brian in SLC
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rockprodigy
Jul 18, 2003, 8:05 PM
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In reply to: Just a joke ,lighten up dude .It's all about fun!!!
I'm light...don't worry....now if everyone else would just do the same.
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bolthappy
Jul 18, 2003, 10:47 PM
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Is that him, no wonder he is so light, it's those ears, their like dumbo's , can he FLY ?
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hangdogwatchdog
Jul 19, 2003, 7:17 AM
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In reply to: That story on City Park, by Jeff Smoot, is outstanding. I recommend it to anyone that's interested in climbing history. He's right on about Todd, sorta, but I think he didn't capture the positive side to him enough. Sure, he's been a bit ethically shakey and driven by ego, but he's a gem of a guy. Just tops. One of the most positive and infectious guys you can be around. If you can hang out with Todd and not be psyched about life, then ya might as well give it up. Ultra technical cracks like this are just fascinating to climb. Any more stories like this out there?
I am sorry to inform you that your leg has been pulled. That's right, you heard right. That story on Smoot's site is is an imaginative interpretation of Skinner's climb. Amazing, since Smoot was there to see it. But here's the way it really went down. Todd had several pieces of pro placed leading to about the 90-foot level on this 120-foot pitch. His rope stretched from the ground where he stood, through his highest piece and back down to his belayer. It was nearly dark, and Todd climbed up (top-roped from his highest piece) to the crux, climbed right through and after about 10 or 15 feet he moved right onto Godzilla. He questioned Jeff about the difficulty of the Godzilla mantle move ("10c" was the reply), then finished by climbing Godzilla.
Later, a paragraph in Rock & Ice informed us that he had climbed around some grease that had been placed in the City Park crack, but that since the last 30 feet of City Park was only 5.12, he had accomplished the "first free ascent" of City Park.
What is important to note is that Todd placed no gear on this ascent. In fact, he didn't even clip his rope into a single piece. He just top-roped to his highest piece and then climbed through, finishing off route. If such tactics are acceptable by today's standards, they certainly weren't back then when Todd claimed the first free ascent.
And, so we see, you can't believe everything you read or hear. If you're impressed that a nonlocal climber came in and "skooped" City Park from under the noses of the locals in Washington, you might as well know how unconventional and artificial Todd's ascent really was. He basically top-roped this pitch (and NOT EVEN ALL OF IT). Washington climbers were top-roping this pitch in the 1970's.
Just thought you should know.
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rockprodigy
Jul 21, 2003, 1:39 PM
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In reply to: And, so we see, you can't believe everything you read or hear.
This is particularly funny. We're supposed to disregard Smoot, but listen to you??
I suppose you were there, and witnessed this ascent?
Please tell me what motivation Smoot has to lie about this historic climb...that's the only thing I can't figure out. Obviously Skinner would have his reason to stretch the truth (and why not go along with the "Todd Skinner's a liar" hype), but why does Smoot care? Let's hear the conspiracy theory....
I also would think that Yo-yo'ing something like that, where the gear is placed in the jams, and with the rope in the way would make it more difficult, not less.
Of course, we've already established that I'm an idiot.
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hangdogwatchdog
Jul 23, 2003, 12:22 AM
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I have no theories about Jeff's motivation. It could be that Jeff wanted to reinterpret the facts to make the ascent seem more valid, to make his story sound more heroic. It could be as simple as that is just the way he remembers it. All I know is that I witnessed the ascent. What I saw and what Jeff wrote match perfectly, except for the part about placing gear. My friend and I were high school punks at the time....we hopped a bus to Index and camped on a flat boulder in the quarry for a week. Todd was a cool guy....asked us what we were cooking for dinner and other small talk .....just before he climbed it, and we were impressed that anybody could put the moves together since we had both tried to top-rope it.
I have no motivation to revise history. However, having been there to witness such a "historic climb", I think you should hear the facts as they unfolded before my eyes.
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hasbeen
Jul 25, 2003, 7:49 PM
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Well I'll be a fig newton.
hmmm, knowing Todd, I can see how he might exaggerate a yo-yo ascent into a redpoint ascent in such a situation. However, I would bet that he did, at least, place all those pieces on lead during subsequent attempts. Still, this is interesting...
Don't know Smoot, or you, but apparently someone isn't telling the truth. There is a bit in Smoot's story (good nonetheless) where he mentions that Todd fell off and didn't make mention of pulling the rope or gear, perhaps assuming we'd just assume he did. So maybe that's the grey area. However, if he didn't place a single piece on the ascent, well, that would be blatant to leave out. Furthermore, he stated that the climb was very easy (5.11) where Todd moved right. The topo of the second ascent concurs--I think it said 10+. Now, if it's 10+ then skipping it for an on sight 10c mantel would be considered burly. If it's 5.12, that would be another matter entirely.
I guess it all doesn't matter much in the end, because we all know at least what WE did, and have to live with it, but I find it an interesting tale all the same.
Thanks for sharing.
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hangdogwatchdog
Jul 26, 2003, 5:43 AM
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Dear Miss Studette (I was just in your neighborhood!),
I think in a yo-yo ascent, you're allowed to continue from your highest piece. You must lower to the ground or a rest ledge well below the crux and try again. If you then climb all the way to the anchor, without placing a single piece, it's a valid yo-yo ascent. I think that is what I witnessed, although I didn't see how Todd placed the pieces that the rope passed through when he completed his yo-yo ascent. Another thing I remember is that he used chalk to draw horizontal lines across the crack to mark the best jam placements (although I couldn't tell if he' labeled them "right" and "left").
As far as bailing onto Godzilla is concerned, he did this from a point on City Park such that at least 20 feet of hard climbing was avoided. The Godzilla move is not 10c but is commonly thought to be 5.9, and it is lower than the point where most people move out of the Godzilla corner and over to the shared City Park/Godzilla belay. The section of City Park that he did not complete is.....I'm not a 5.12 climber, but I've done plenty of 5.11. I top-roped Equinox in Josh on-sight, and the last 20 feet of City Park is certainly harder than that.
I don't think Todd ever claimed this was a red-point ascent, but Smoot's account leaves the impression that it was. Anyway, this thread brings up interesting questions. Namely, at what point can a "free ascent" be claimed? First top-roped ascent? If so, must it be continuous? First yo-yo ascent? First pink point? Red point? Purple point? Brown point.....wait, that one has already been covered in the mention of first top-rope ascent. First on-sight? First lycra-free ascent? In summary, is City Park still open for a FFA in the most general meaning of the words?
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studs
Nov 18, 2003, 10:23 PM
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Washington climbers werenot TRing City Park free in the 70s.
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crotch
Nov 18, 2003, 11:08 PM
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Add Peachy .13c? (Whitney Portal) to the hard wide-crack list.
In reply to: How come there are no off widths on here? Lucille 13a Trench warfare 12d And Belly Full of Bad Berries is only an easy 13 Are we so blinded numbers on here? |
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wallwombat
Nov 18, 2003, 11:50 PM
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The Great Shark Hunt - 13d- Mount Buffalo Gorge, Australia.
FA- Malcolm Matherson
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studs
Nov 19, 2003, 12:05 AM
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Whats Peachy all about? FA etc.
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dabhaid
Dec 12, 2003, 6:53 PM
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Divided Years, Mourne Mountains Ireland,
climbed by John Dunne:
http://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/profiles/dunne/
it's rated at E10, which (if the site I went to has done its' conversions correctly) is beyond 5.14d! It's mentioned in a climbing book I have as being possibly the most difficult naturally protected route in the world.
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joshy8200
Dec 12, 2003, 8:18 PM
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No one is talking up to two climbs that Dean Potter put up???
I can see that maybe this crack climbs are not technically as demanding as others, but both of these things are like over 250ft pitches. I also figure that a lot of the hard "trad lines" are done with gear pre-placed. I think Potter only pre-placed one piece of gear (well I think the article said Steph Davis placed it while standing on Potter's shoulders). I think that taking as little gear as possible then running out the sections after the cruxes is just amazing endurance/ability/talent/strenght/focus.
Plus I don't see why everyone is not talking up his free ascents of both El Cap and Half Dome in a day! Is this just too incredible, too insanely driven for us to comprehend. I'm just in awe of Potter's ascents. His style and energy are really inspiring.
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lostinvegas
Dec 12, 2003, 9:08 PM
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A crack line in Korea, FA by You Hyeong Kim in 90s is rated 13d. I don't know the name or exact location, but I think it's in In Su Bong, near Seoul. And I believe it wasn't bolted. Sorry I don't have more detail info.
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arkansasclimber
Dec 12, 2003, 9:52 PM
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Epitaph, Concepcion(potters most recent crazy crack) are crazy. i agree with josh that these climbs may not be insanely burly. They're 230 feet long. They took Dean Potter 2 years and 12 days to do they're probably pretty hard.
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youreup
Dec 12, 2003, 10:12 PM
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I haven't seen Zodiac mentioned yet, I believe 13d was the rating given. Since it's a popular wall route, there is a bunch of "pre-placed" gear that's fixed.
Muir goes at 13+. Lurking Fear goes at 13+ as well though the crux is face/slab climbing.
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rokshoxbkr19
Dec 12, 2003, 11:52 PM
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Anyone who knows me knows I have to mention Zion at least once every post, so here it is. I am not sure of the names, but I know there are some insance 5.13 or even .14 routes up there, anyone know names, I think monkeyfinger has some crazy stuff.
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hema
Dec 13, 2003, 8:31 PM
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For the old continent a really top contender might bi Didier Berthod's Greenspit in the Valle dell'Orco, Italy. The route is and old bolted project, but Didier chopped the bolts and did the FA with prepalced gear. He graded the route F8B+ (5.14a), but stated that as crack-climbing is not that much practiced here in Europe the grade might be as hard as 9a (14d).
For more info on the climb have a look at: http://www.planetmountain.com/english/News/index.html?-database=newseng&-layout=scheda&-response=Detail.html&-recordID=33413&-search
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ouflyboy9
Dec 13, 2003, 9:25 PM
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welcome to ole kaintuck...13c i believe, in Red River Gorge
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amygdala
Dec 13, 2003, 9:33 PM
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In reply to: John Dunne has two routes rated 5.14. One is up some gulley in the Lake District with a 2 hour approach. The other is way out there in, like, northern Scottland with an insane approach. I forget a exactly. It's suppose to have protected 5.14 but a death fall off of 5.12 on a 160' pitch. There must be some info around somewhere.
The 1995 John Dunne route is "Divided Years E10 7a" (possibly 8a+/8b with big fall potential, which Dunne tested) in the Mourne Mountains in Ireland - unrepeated to date, but rumour has it Neil Gresham of second ascent of Equilibrium fame, and Simon Moore, Ireland's own, but Sheffield based, are both considering the second ascent. As usual with Dunne's routes, everyone rubbishes them as overgraded, but they take ages to get repeats, and whether or not this route is E10, it was almost certainly the hardest trad route around in the British Isles at the time...I guess people just csn't believe a big guy like Dunne can climb that hard. His routes Parthian Shot, Breathless in the lakes, and others, deserve a mention too...
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rokshoxbkr19
Dec 13, 2003, 11:31 PM
Post #93 of 93
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Registered: Oct 30, 2002
Posts: 767
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I know the T Wall has 5.13 trad leads, Grand Contusion is 5.13b/c I believe and there are harder routes, I also read in Climbing last year about this kid who was climbing a sport route 5.14 a or b and people said they bet he couldn't trad lead it and then he did. It was his first lead I believe and it mentioned how he had to borrow all this micro gear anyone know what I am talking about.
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