|
tanner
Feb 26, 2003, 6:57 AM
Post #51 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2002
Posts: 491
|
I'm enjoying this topic,
|
|
|
|
|
jerryderl
Feb 26, 2003, 6:57 AM
Post #52 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 5, 2002
Posts: 39
|
My previous reply was in reference to copperheads latest reply.
But I must go to bed now. Just remember tomorrow when you right 2/26/03 on your check, that it is in reference to someone who DID exist and claims to be God.
|
|
|
|
|
jerryderl
Feb 26, 2003, 7:01 AM
Post #53 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 5, 2002
Posts: 39
|
In reply to: Anyone of true intelligence and intellectual enlightenment will understand that it is nearly impossible to reverse brainwashing, especially when it has been ingrained in people since they were young.
It can be tough to change one's mind about religion. But when people see God work it can happen quickly.
|
|
|
|
|
tanner
Feb 26, 2003, 7:04 AM
Post #54 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2002
Posts: 491
|
well I think this thread died, oh well
|
|
|
|
|
tanner
Feb 26, 2003, 7:14 AM
Post #55 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 28, 2002
Posts: 491
|
Its all good, I should go to sleep any way
Peace out
Tanner
|
|
|
|
|
easysteve2
Feb 26, 2003, 7:24 AM
Post #56 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 22, 2003
Posts: 26
|
I don't know what kind of question this is, but's it's bull, without god we wouldn't have what we climb on, thank him and do what he asks, after all, you've gotten everything you've wanted for over a two thousand years.
|
|
|
|
|
rckfreek
Feb 26, 2003, 7:59 AM
Post #57 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 4, 2002
Posts: 149
|
Well i am a bit suprized that this thread hasn't been ripped on for its topic yet.
However, the first thing that i have to say is that if climbing and sex are more important to anyone than thier love for and devotion to God than according to Luke 18:18-30 (the parable of the rich young ruller) that person can not inherit the kingdom of God.
This is not to say that God has not created sex as a beutiful thing (in a marital context) and that he has not blessed us with the great things on this earth to use for our joy (i.e. Rocks and mountains ect.) But these things should be looked at as exactly that, blessings from God. Paul says in Philippians 3:7 that what ever he has gained on earth (any blessings) he now counts them as rubish (or translation from the greek human crap).
There is a verse somewhere in the new testament that i am not being able to recal a verse referance for that says even Satan will bow at the glory of Christ at the second comming. This glory is so much greater than anything here on earth that there is no reason to even worry about the things of this earth.
- Rock Freek -
Ryan
|
|
|
|
|
rockpossum
Feb 26, 2003, 9:43 AM
Post #58 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 11, 2002
Posts: 230
|
There's an old Canadian comedy team McLean and McLean that do a piece called Jesus was Just a Guy. Sort of sums it up.
I've had a lot of theological training, in spite of this I have come to the conclusion that God couldn't possibly exist as most western religions describe him.
An omnipotent being micro-managing the universe allows (promotes) suffering and ignorance on such a massive scale? This is some sadistic SOB your God. Playing out some childish little game with us to see who loves him the most? Wouldn't even want to have a beer with your God.
Please, nature is God, my dyslexic dog is god, your god I want no part of.
Cheers.
P.S. Bible thumpers please save your vitriol for someone else, your book was translated and edited by a bunch of medieval German scholars and reflects their ideas and prejudices more than Christ's message.
|
|
|
|
|
godsmybelayer
Feb 26, 2003, 10:35 AM
Post #59 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 11, 2003
Posts: 117
|
copperhead, search for a thread called 'faith for the fall', I found that and I think if you read it all the way through you'd be suprised at what other options are out there!!! It's quite lengthy however!!!
|
|
|
|
|
rainer_henfling
Feb 26, 2003, 12:50 PM
Post #60 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 12, 2003
Posts: 27
|
Although I love climbing and and being in nature, I couldn´t see any sense for my life witout God. I think, on this topic, anybody has to find his own way. Mine is the one with God, and he is very, very important for me, but I don´t mind other people not believing in him.
As I said, you´ve to decide on your own.
Rainer.
|
|
|
|
|
theooze
Feb 26, 2003, 12:55 PM
Post #61 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 18, 2003
Posts: 619
|
In reply to: An omnipotent being micro-managing the universe allows (promotes) suffering and ignorance on such a massive scale? This is some sadistic SOB your God. Playing out some childish little game with us to see who loves him the most? Wouldn't even want to have a beer with your God.
Well said. My feelings exactly.
Good trolling today. Can't reel em in fast enough.
|
|
|
|
|
talons05
Feb 26, 2003, 2:37 PM
Post #62 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 23, 2001
Posts: 1435
|
Many of you are wielding scriptures as if they are the golden light of truth. However, you must remember that they were written by MEN. "Oh, god told me to write this" Really? God told you to say that Women should serve their husbands? Oh.... And he said that you should put up with whoever is in power, whether good or bad? Hmm... Oh, and GOD's the one who gave you those commandments? Very original, except that they are found in nearly every religion, even those predating yours... Hmm... I'm sorry, but just because you get butterflies in your stomach when you sit en masse with your fellow cultists and pray to your idol doesn't mean it's for real. You can get the same feeling in the movie theater. It's a better show anyway. The christian god is a creation of those in power. This ficticious god has been used by MEN to justify some of the most horrible atrocities in human history. You feel sorry for me? I'm going to hell? Your ignorance makes me sick. Bring on the inquisition.
A.W.
|
|
|
|
|
wishiwaswest
Feb 26, 2003, 2:42 PM
Post #63 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 21, 2003
Posts: 966
|
Well regardless of whether you believe in God or not, and personally I don't care if you do or not, (just don't try and push your FAITH on me), since creatures have been living and dying on this earth for a bazillion years, it's a good chance that some molecules of their physical bodies have been incorporated into every square inch of the land we tread upon and the rocks we climb. You can debate all you want about what happens to a persons soul, even debate whether or not souls exist, there will be no proof until someone actually dies and comes back to tell us all about it....and don't bring Jesus into this....there is no proof he came back...only FAITH in the fact that he did....there is more "proof" of "reincarnation" than there is in "resurrection" (and please note the quotation marks)....but I digress....
When I die, spread my ashes over the land from the mountain tops and let me contribute to the flourishing of future life....just don't step on my toes...OK?
Oh and if hell is climbing and sex....then hell is heaven to me.....
|
|
|
|
|
waggas
Feb 26, 2003, 2:44 PM
Post #64 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 2, 2002
Posts: 52
|
In reply to: In reply to: As for that old “but all this couldn’t have been created by chance†routine…. In a virtually limitless universe, they chances are that virtually everything that’s possible will exist at one point or another…. Where did the virtually limitless universe come from?
If you want to play that game, where did God come from? And who does God believe in? :roll:
|
|
|
|
|
rckfreek
Feb 26, 2003, 4:31 PM
Post #65 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 4, 2002
Posts: 149
|
Well i am anything but a bible thumper, i do however beleive in what it says, and that it is the word of God. I am not going to get into a debate in this troll of a topic as to wether God exists, if you would like to think that you came from a rock and your bro is a chimp that is great. And if you don't beleive in God than why are we even talking about climbing or Heven, with out God there is no heven.
And if you want to say that the bible has no proof and other religions came up with those things first than it simply shows your ignorance to the facts.
I am not by any means going to try to push what i beleive on anyone, but if you are going to say that i am for simply stating my beliefs than you are doing non the better by stating your beliefs.
Climb Hard
- Rock Freek -
|
|
|
|
|
onamission116
Feb 26, 2003, 4:37 PM
Post #66 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 24, 2003
Posts: 60
|
I agree; what kind of heaven wouldn't be nice and hilly and not have sex. :shock:
|
|
|
|
|
climbjs
Feb 26, 2003, 4:38 PM
Post #67 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 1, 2002
Posts: 379
|
(The agnost replies).......
Climbing!!!!! :twisted:
|
|
|
|
|
acrophobic
Feb 26, 2003, 5:00 PM
Post #68 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 8, 2002
Posts: 368
|
Which God and Which Heaven?
What if you follow Shinto or Buddhism?
Are you discriminating against my beliefs??
CLIMBING! :twisted:
Nothing like the threat of damnation to subvert people’s minds! Main reason Japan never has had any large religious wars. There is no guilt or damnation in their Shinto religion like many.
Kinda like the hell is exothermic paper!
“I think we can safely assume that once a soul gets to hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls are leaving. As for souls entering hell, let's look at the different religions that exist in the world today. Some of these religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, then you will go to hell. Since there are more than one of these religions and people do not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all people and souls go to hell. “
SEE YOU ALL ON THE FIREY CLIFFS! :lol:
|
|
|
|
|
holmeslovesguinness
Feb 26, 2003, 5:02 PM
Post #69 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 10, 2002
Posts: 548
|
The concept of heaven and hell (in almost any religion) seems like a pretty neat and convenient tool for enforcing societal norms on a population. Fear of eternal damnation for the non-believer is also a pretty potent recruiting tool for a religion.
And yeah, come on, who honestly thinks that the bible has been translated verbatim from the original text? If there was only one way to interpret the word of God, why are there so many different 'flavors' (Catholics, Protestants, etc) of Christianity?
|
|
|
|
|
acrophobic
Feb 26, 2003, 5:13 PM
Post #70 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 8, 2002
Posts: 368
|
Well the concept of heaven if a tool of hope. It gives people purpose and some need that. You can’t prove it right or wrong.. so really they have everything to gain. If they are right, the will know they are right. If they are wrong and it doesn’t exist… well they are dead anyway so it wont matter :p
When you have eternal reward for following, contrasted with eternal suffering for not following, it was a pretty powerful converting tool for bringing the pagans “into the fold”.
nowadays though we are exposed to many more religions and ideals.. are are not so quick to follow they things said to be true with no backing!
I FOLLOW ZEUS! The Greek had more documentation and myths on him that X-ians do with the bible... and there is just as much "proof" he exists.
|
|
|
|
|
collegekid
Feb 26, 2003, 5:28 PM
Post #71 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 7, 2002
Posts: 1852
|
hail zeus!
|
|
|
|
|
spider-woman
Deleted
Feb 26, 2003, 5:30 PM
Post #72 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered:
Posts:
|
We can not "prove" God's existance. If we did, there would be no need for faith, which is the foundation of many religions. As for someone saying that God is just playing a torturious game with our lives, that just goes to show how much we really don't know. How can we even try to comprehend the plan God has for us. He who has infinite wisdom compared to us stupid mortals. We can gain some insight into life with the scriptures, even if they were just written by men.
It is my belief that God just wants us to be happy, hence rock climbing. Many people then say, "Why is there so much unhappiness?" Well, God gave us agency to do whatever we want. Sometimes we use it to make ourselves unhappy and sometimes we make others unhappy. Good thing this life doesn't last forever, so we can (if we're good) experience eternal happiness which in my opinion will include climbing.
Sorry to get all religious, but with nobody here to shut me up, I just couldn't help myself.
|
|
|
|
|
vulgarian
Feb 26, 2003, 5:34 PM
Post #73 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 13, 2002
Posts: 381
|
In reply to: Umm, what if you had to choose? Would it affect your answer if you knew there was no climbing in heaven? Or no sex in heaven? What if you could only climb in hell (technically caving, but still) and could only have sex in hell, even though you are constantly roasting like a christmas goose? And in heaven you have to sit around praising God all day and they don't even allow weed or TV? What would you choose?
To me, the way this question is structured, I have two very clear ways to answer. I can be a free thinking individual of free will to seek my spirtuality as it is meaningful to me. Or I can be a mindless idiot and "sit around praising God (the great Ego) all day.
I choose hell.
|
|
|
|
|
collegekid
Feb 26, 2003, 5:35 PM
Post #74 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 7, 2002
Posts: 1852
|
social engineering...that's all religion is. Designed to control the masses.
I suppose religion eases the pain of being effemeral, by promising eternity. Too bad i can't get over all the war and crap that religion has caused, otherwise i might support religion.
|
|
|
|
|
collegekid
Feb 26, 2003, 5:43 PM
Post #75 of 123
(5263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 7, 2002
Posts: 1852
|
just posting to show off my new signature
|
|
|
|
|
|
