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fritzski
May 9, 2003, 9:54 PM
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Wired tricams. I keep seeing these things on ebay for really cheap. Anybody had any experience with them? Are they any good?
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xcit
May 9, 2003, 10:20 PM
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I have seen them them on there to. Since they are wired I think that would defeat the whole concept of placing a tri cam in a horizontal crack. I did a search on Yahoo for them and came back with nothing.
Hmmm.........
Brandon J.
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calpolyclimber
May 9, 2003, 10:44 PM
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They look pretty funky to me... They may be new in the sense of not used, but I doubt they were made any time recently...
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davidji
May 9, 2003, 11:02 PM
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Got a URL? I just did an Ebay search on tricams (also tricam, Viamont), and only got Camp Tricams. Curious to see these other ones.
Thanks,
David
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dcclimb
May 9, 2003, 11:29 PM
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I was curious too.
I forgot to copy the link. On E-Bay just search for Viamont and check the search in titles and descriptions box. They will pop up.
I agree with CalPoly...it could just be i am biased by my CAMPs, but the look a bit funky.
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stewbabby
May 9, 2003, 11:47 PM
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3607576386&category=30107
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davidji
May 9, 2003, 11:52 PM
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In reply to: I forgot to copy the link. On E-Bay just search for Viamont and check the search in titles and descriptions box. They will pop up.
Interesting. I'm plenty happy with the Camp tricams I have, but being a gear-geek, I'd like to read reviews of these too.
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fritzski
May 10, 2003, 4:19 AM
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They're "new" items and it seems whomever is selling them is doing it pretty much thru ebay and always keeping a full set for sale every day or so.
With the spring tension the wire would provide, they may act somewhat like half a cam - when inserted against the "opening" tension of the wire. My concern would be that same tension would cause them to be a bear to remove - always wanting to creep deeper into the crack if you pushed on the wire to loosen it.
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neph
May 10, 2003, 6:11 AM
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For $40, I am sort of tempted to buy these just for kicks... :D
If there are some up for auction when I get back from my trip, I'll buy them and post a review.
*edit*
one thing i just noticed is the smaller sizes have less range than normal tricams, but the bigger ones have a greater range
for camp tricams:
.5 - 16-28 mm
1 - 20-30 mm
1.5- 26-38 mm
2 - 29-41 mm
2.5- 32-48 mm
3 - 38-54 mm
3.5- 41-60 mm
for viamont tricams:
1 - 17-22 mm
2 - 20-26 mm
3 - 22-34 mm
4 - 30-45 mm
5 - 37-55 mm
6 - 40-65 mm
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mriska
May 10, 2003, 6:29 AM
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The pictures leads me to believe that they might be manufatured in the Czech republic by a company named Kouba. This is the same factory producing cams and nuts for Hudy (Rock Empire) and I believe the Pika cams and Climbers cams also are the same. I have two sets of Kouba nuts, and the older set looks exactly the same as those tricams with regards to the cables. same colors, the largest three (black, red and blue) have the swage separate from the little part that holds the wires together, and the color-coating of the wires also looks very much like my Kouba nuts. My nuts also have a printed label on the swage similar to what you can see on the pictures. All this leeads me to be fairly certain that they are made by Kouba
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wlderdude
May 11, 2003, 3:20 AM
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Camp tricams still have a patent number on them, even though the patent expired many years ago!
I am am personal fan of slung hexes, so wired tricams to me sounds rediculous.
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pelliott
May 11, 2003, 3:55 AM
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They may have a similar range, but they aren't as strong. The smallest of the Viamont tricams can take only five kN. The smallest Camp can take ten. Here are the Camp strength ratings.
C.A.M.P Tricams
.5 Pink 10kN
1 Red 10kN
1.5 Brown 15kN
2 Purple 15kN
2.5 Blue 18kN
3 Black 18kN
3.5 White 22kN
The strongest Viamont tricam is only 15kN. I think I will stick with my Camps.
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darkside
May 11, 2003, 5:07 AM
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They look very similar to some tri-cams I saw some time ago that were made in the Czech republic. The Czechs make some nice gear albeit rudimentary and these e-bay tri-cams are ce certified so safety isn't a concern but I would check the weight. Similar Czech gear such as nuts and the tri-cams I saw were fairly heavy. I never used them though so I'm afraid I can't offer any info on performance.
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pico23
May 12, 2003, 5:29 PM
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I'm a huge tricam fan and looked at these as an option. The drawbacks I see are that the sling makes the tricam good for horizontal flares. These would not seem to work well in a horizontal. on the other hand they might work atleast as well in a vertical. Kind of like Forged Friends and Flex Stems work better in different types of uses. Eitherway, tricams are cheap enough to buy, stronger and probably lighter and these don't seem to be an improvement so for my purposes so I skipped. $40 might not be much but it's a weekend road trip for me and I have plenty of barely used gear sitting in boxes that doesn't really do anything for me other then remind my wife of how frivilous I can be at times.
Does anyone know why no one makes a Tricam knockoff since there is no patent???
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drkodos
May 12, 2003, 5:37 PM
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In reply to: Does anyone know why no one makes a Tricam knockoff since there is no patent???
There is no $$$$ to be made, that's why.
Overrated, underused, esoteric pieces of BS. And I say this as someone that learned to climb at the Gunks, home of the necessary tri-cams? Hardly. There isn't a tri-cam placement in the world that an Alien or small TCU won't also work.
Tri-cams were great back in the day before micro-camming units. Now there are just museum pieces. Sure, they work, but why bother?
Nothing like "hosing-the-second" with a few "well-placed" pink tricam placements at the crux....
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maldaly
May 12, 2003, 5:57 PM
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Dr. Kodos,
I'm astonished that, as a 30 trad climber, you haven't seen the light. TriCams are the lightest, stablest, most versatile piece of pro you can carry on your rack. They'll fit in to pods and holes and horizontals where nothing esle will go and save your ass. Use them in the camming mode for sure, but when you begin to groove on placing them passively, then the light will shine bright.
Never leave home without them....
Mal
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hooker
May 12, 2003, 6:02 PM
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I have over twenty of the little effers.....
I never use them anymore. There is ALWAYS a better placemnet with a more secure piece. They tend to be unstable. They can be difficult to clean, especially the pink and even more so if it has taken the full force of a leader fall.
I used to use them extensively...then I did see the light!
As for weight, they are not the lightest pieces, but they are close.
I also never really enjoyed the fact that everything is riding on the strength of that little pin that holds the webbing/sling in place.
Please, this is not a diatribe against those that use them. All you tri-cam lovers out there, don't despair, I'm not bashing you, just the gear..... :wink:
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drkodos
May 12, 2003, 6:11 PM
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I have more tricams than I know what to do with. I used to love them for all the reasons you stated. Then I realized how myopic my vision had become.
They are not stable. If using passively, why not just use a nut? In 30 years of climbing there have been times when a tri-cam offered a great placement, but with today's technology, there is ALMOST always another choice of gear. As stated above, small TCU's and aliens go anywhere a tricam goes, plus many more placements.
I have used my share at the GUNKS, but now have found that evrywhere one is needed (?), another piece usually works just as well or better.
Stirrup Trouble 5.10 comes to mind. Immediately after the traverse, a pink tri-cam was often the piece placed to protect the move up and over the bulge. For years, there was a fixed "pinkie" stuck in the pocket. Now, a green alien goes in and fits rather nicely. Easier to clean, too.
Tri-cams had their day in the sun, but that time is long passed.
I offer my tri-cams to those that want them, can give them a good home, and treat them the way they deserve. When I get to the Gunks this weekend, I will be happy to give these babies away to a new adoptive family. Anyone that wishes can show me their "tri-cam" only placements, and allow me to see if I can't set another piece in the same placement....any takers?
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atg200
May 12, 2003, 6:18 PM
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sure drkodos. can you meet me in moab? tricams are pretty indespensible for doing clean aid in the fisher towers. i don't use them as much as i used to anymore, but i do generally carry the first three with me on everything.
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murf
May 12, 2003, 6:29 PM
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Back to the original thread, I'm curious as to the stability of these wired tricams. Since tricams don't have springs and normally can't be set with a yank ( like a nut ), I depend on the "loose" sling not moving it that much. Not much of issue on a small solution pocket, but on a horizontal it might be. I picture these wired ones with the stiff wire poking out of the crack, every swing of the rope knocking it about. I suppose a long enough sling on the wire would help.
Anyone had any problems with this.
Murf
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maldaly
May 12, 2003, 6:43 PM
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I just bid on these to see if they're any good. I suspect they'll suck but will post my opinions after I've tried them.
Mal
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pico23
May 12, 2003, 9:04 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Does anyone know why no one makes a Tricam knockoff since there is no patent??? There is no $$$$ to be made, that's why. Overrated, underused, esoteric pieces of BS. And I say this as someone that learned to climb at the Gunks, home of the necessary tri-cams? Hardly. There isn't a tri-cam placement in the world that an Alien or small TCU won't also work. Tri-cams were great back in the day before micro-camming units. Now there are just museum pieces. Sure, they work, but why bother? Nothing like "hosing-the-second" with a few "well-placed" pink tricam placements at the crux....
Wow, that is pretty strong. I never carry more then a set of cams and oddly enough never bitch (ok rarely) about having to protect pockets or flares. Sure with hybrids of offset friends I could probably still protect those flares but then I'd have to carry at least another set of cams to cover my bases on a onsight lead. I totally disagree that tricams are useless. As a matter of fact they are the most used piece of pro on my rack. I use em as nuts, cams, and even ocasionally a runner. Personally, I think you can get by without cams between the Red Alien and the #2 Camalot with a rack of tricams.
And so what if the second needs tension to pull the tricam out. 99% of the time difficulty getting them out is the SECONDS fault. I've watched people just start yanking on them for no reason without even trying to work em out. My feeling is if there was a stance for me to place the gear from there is a stance for the second to remove it from and if not that is what tension is for. The only time I'd truly believe a tricam is difficult to get out is if it was fallen on. And even then a little finesse is usually the key.
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pico23
May 12, 2003, 9:13 PM
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In reply to: I have over twenty of the little effers..... I never use them anymore. There is ALWAYS a better placemnet with a more secure piece. They tend to be unstable. They can be difficult to clean, especially the pink and even more so if it has taken the full force of a leader fall. I'm not bashing you, just the gear..... :wink:
No offense taken but I don't think there is always something better. Hourglass shaped cracks?? Especially close to the ground I don't like running 24" runners to keep my SLCD's in tiny constrictions from walking above or below into a flared area. A hex or better a tri cam placed passively really sticks and protects me from groundfall. I just don't trust cams on that type of crack. My oppinion is that those who use them often love them and those that don't lack to competence to place them. At the very least the tricam is an effective belay anchor in place of cams which can be placed and cleaned faster most of the time on the climb (no argument there even from me).
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petsfed
May 12, 2003, 9:13 PM
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I've found that if you use them only as a camming piece, they are quite easy to clean. Place the nut tool at the flattest spot and give it a good pop, then pinch the sides and extract. But then again, I only use the pink and red ones, and then only in horizontal placements. Otherwise they're not on the rack.
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sheldonjr
May 12, 2003, 9:16 PM
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Hey Kodos,
I'll take em off your hands! I'm not gonna be in the gunks, but you can mail em to me if you want to get rid of em that bad. PM me and I'll give you my address. (No, seriously.)
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rgold
May 12, 2003, 11:03 PM
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I'm not a tricam evangelist but I do carry a few instead of the corresponding size stoppers. In passive mode, I find them better than stoppers---the rails allow them to be placed around pebbles and other irregularities, and I place them passively perhaps 90% of the time. I view their camming properties as a rarely-needed but occasionally useful extra benefit.
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drkodos
May 12, 2003, 11:11 PM
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At a certain point of my gunks climbing I was addicted to the things. I never went anywhere without the pink and the red. Sometimes, two of each, for mental protection.
Therapy and trips to other areas have left them gathering dust in the garage.
I do, however, like the idea of using the rails around pebbly features. (Myopea and old age prevent me from freely thinking.) I will try it this weekend (weather permitting), on my two week trip back east to the home-land (like the swallows returning to Capistrano). This rail/pebble idea got me thinking of another area besides the Gunks where they may be quite useful, where I've never thought of using them....crack climbing at the Cathedral Spires in Needles South Dakota......
Thanks for the inspiration.....
I still don't think I need three of each color.... :wink:
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atg200
May 12, 2003, 11:24 PM
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no, you don't need three of each color.
they are wonderful in the needles. i've used them for at least pyschological pro in between crystals and chickenheads. they are also great in the crystally cracks.
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phugganut
May 13, 2003, 12:24 AM
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Tricams absolutely rock! The smallest 5 are always on my rack and often get placed, especially the smallest 3. Also, I agree with what somebody else previously posted about cleaning them: they're not hard to clean IF you know how.
As for the Viamont, I've no personal experience with them. I am a bit leery of them, primarily b/c of the wire instead of the sling, so I've not bid on them despite seeing them on Ebay all the time.
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davidji
May 13, 2003, 12:50 AM
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In reply to: I still don't think I need three of each color.... :wink:
I had been mostly carrying the smallest 4, but a recent climb made me decide to again start carrying the next two. IIRC it was an easy, thin crack in Yosemite.
Few pieces polarize climbers as much as those do. And your opinion is interesting, as you been on both sides.
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mheyman
May 13, 2003, 1:57 AM
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There isn't a tri-cam placement in the world that an Alien or small TCU won't also work.
Tri-cams were great back in the day before micro-camming units. Now there are just museum pieces.
??? Even the 1/2 Tricam isn't in the micro cam range. Width isn't what is unique to a Tricam. It is in a relatively wide but shallow crack that they sometimes work where a cam, no cam will.
Mark Heyman
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pico23
May 13, 2003, 2:03 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I still don't think I need three of each color.... :wink: If you decide they still suck, or just want to get rid of a few, I'll gladly pay shipping for sizes 3.5-6. Dunno how much I'd use 'em--I've never used those sizes before. I had been mostly carrying the smallest 4, but a recent climb made me decide to again start carrying the next two. IIRC it was an easy, thin crack in Yosemite. Few pieces polarize climbers as much as those do. And your opinion is interesting, as you been on both sides.
Honestly, having anything bigger then a #4 seems counter productive. Like you I'd get em if they were free just to try them out but I have up to a #4 which I carry sometimes. The bigger they get the more unstable and the less advantage they have over a cam. I'd love to rack that big yellow (#7 I think) just for laughs.
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maldaly
May 13, 2003, 2:27 PM
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Allright, I'll keep this thread going a little longer. I've been using TriCams for 20 years (or something like that) and am very comfortable with them in lots of situations. I carry the .5, 1, 1.5 all the time.
I also carry the #5 (gasp)
This size is killer. It covers the range of a 2.5 - 3.5 Friend and weighs less than a #1 Friend. I don't use it in place of cams in parallel side cracks (That would be stupid) but I find it incredibly useful in weird block stacks, huecoes, and fractured rock. It's amazing in weird alpine or desert terrain. When Mark Twight and Jeff Lowe were descenting off the N. Face of Nuptse, Twight dropped his rappel rig and ended up doing 37 rappels using the #5 as his rappel device. That's a funny story but don't run out and buy a #5 for a rap rig. If you have one sitting at the bottom of your gear pile, throw it on your rack some day and see how many weird places you can get it to fit.
Mal
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sheldonjr
May 14, 2003, 9:51 PM
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I actually saw a guy racked up with that HUGE one.. I was totally blown away. He said he loved it. :? :?:
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cadaverchris
May 14, 2003, 10:32 PM
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Back to the Viamont tri-cams....
i saw a stuck one in a horizontal placement at Annapolis Rocks MD.
the sucker was in there good, and has probably been there for a while. I tried to weasel it out, and then i noticed that the rails were bent and broken by other would be pirates of booty gear!
now if hammering a nut tool to try to remove it provided enough force to break of a piece of the rail, i don't think I'd trust it to keep my butt off the ground!!!
just a very subjective opinion on the viamonts
-chris
[edited for spelling]
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pico23
May 15, 2003, 3:41 AM
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In reply to: now if hammering a nut tool to try to remove it provided enough force to break of a piece of the rail, i don't think I'd trust it to keep my butt off the ground!!! just a very subjective opinion on the viamonts -chris [edited for spelling]
Just to play devils advocate...pounding on any piece of gear with a nut tool is a bad idea. Once I heard my wife trying to get a green alien out all of a sudden I hear tap tap tap. I'm like whats going on. she goes I can't get this alien out. I SCREAMED YOU AREN"T HITTING IT WILL A NUT TOOL ARE YOU. Anyway, I stopped her, down climbed and removed the piece in one quick motion. The point is I'm not a big fan of pounding on my gear to get it out. Think about a regular tricam, those suckers are strong and simple but if you pounded on that pin with a nut tool you'd seriously weaken the tricam. IMO pounding a piece is the absolute last resort.
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brutusofwyde
May 18, 2003, 9:50 PM
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In reply to: There isn't a tri-cam placement in the world that an Alien or small TCU won't also work.
Yes, there is. In fact, there are many:
I don't know of any aliens or small TCUs that will work where a #7 tricam will.
Also,
Around the far right side of the base of Chouinard Falls at Lee Vining, on the side of the rock everyone ducks behind to pee, is a flared slanting crack that will take a pink tricam but no other piece. We found it this last winter after an extensive search.
Hope this helps!
Brutus
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brutusofwyde
May 18, 2003, 10:07 PM
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In reply to: Back to the original thread, I'm curious as to the stability of these wired tricams. Since tricams don't have springs and normally can't be set with a yank ( like a nut ), I depend on the "loose" sling not moving it that much.
Huh?
Most placements, I yank those suckers tight enough that my second needs a hammer to get them out.
Brutus
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savedbymynuts
May 19, 2003, 7:01 AM
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It seems the wire would act as a spring to force the cam to pivot on the wider side. Hence making it more of a active caming device then the original tricam.
Relating to the stuck piece. I prefer stuck pieces then pieces that do not hold.
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pico23
May 19, 2003, 7:53 PM
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Just wanted to add some first hand *second hand* information. I was climbing in the Gunks this weekend and at the top of Madam G's a climber had some gear attached to the rappel anchors. I noticed some Viamont Tricams. He was not american (from his accent probably Germatic) although he only spoke english to his party.
Anyway, I asked about the Viamonts and he said he loved them. Most of his gear was older Rock Empire and other eastern European gear, BTW. Anyway, I asked all the questions you guys have been asking and he said that
1) The stability of the wire bail vs. the webbing?? As per the climber you do need to extend them with a long sling to keep them steady. However, he said he always extended lowe tricams as well so this was no different.
2) Are they unstable in horizontals??? He said he normally places them in horizontals placed actively with a long sling and the spring tension tends to keep them in place better then a webbed lowe tricam even with rope drag.
3) Have you used lowe tricams and how do they compare??? He said they compared quite well and in certain situations were better then lowe tricams because of the tension. He also noted they were cheaper and more durable but he was unsure of the US pricing of either. He said he did not use these passively and not often in horizontal cracks either.
I hope some of this might help. I think these Viamonts are pretty much like a Lowe, either you love em or you don't.
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kpj240789
May 10, 2005, 2:16 AM
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I bought a set on ebay today, just for sh**s and giggles. They should be here in a few days. I hope they're somewhat useful.
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gunksgoer
May 10, 2005, 2:51 AM
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i saw them recently and was kinda curious. even if they turn out to be shit it seems they could be nice for rap stations and leaver pieces at that price.
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scrapedape
May 10, 2005, 2:59 AM
Post #43 of 51
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Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 2392
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In reply to: I just bid on these to see if they're any good. I suspect they'll suck but will post my opinions after I've tried them. Mal
Two years on, any opinions Mal?
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harrisha
Jun 18, 2005, 5:15 AM
Post #44 of 51
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Registered: Oct 31, 2003
Posts: 314
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In reply to: They may have a similar range, but they aren't as strong. The smallest of the Viamont tricams can take only five kN. The smallest Camp can take ten. Here are the Camp strength ratings. C.A.M.P Tricams .5 Pink 10kN 1 Red 10kN 1.5 Brown 15kN 2 Purple 15kN 2.5 Blue 18kN 3 Black 18kN 3.5 White 22kN The strongest Viamont tricam is only 15kN. I think I will stick with my Camps.
kN ratings mean little in reagards to whether or not a piece will hold your fall. Sure that 2kN micro nut might weld into place and then have the cable strip away, but under normal circumstances the Viamonts seem plenty strong. You have to keep in mind that those kN ratings are the point of failure in which the gear physicaly breaks and not the point at which placements fail. Whether a placement fails or not depends on many variables, and you will be hard pressed to find a situation where the kN rating is one of those variables.
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harrisha
Jun 18, 2005, 5:22 AM
Post #45 of 51
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Registered: Oct 31, 2003
Posts: 314
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Here is the web address http://www.viamontgear.com. I didn't check the specs as it is 1:20 AM and I've been up packing for a trip to Boundary Waters and now want to go to bed, but they look heavier than those made by CAMP (they seem to use more material for the piece itself).
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madrock
Aug 20, 2005, 4:43 AM
Post #46 of 51
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Registered: Dec 11, 2002
Posts: 255
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These look pretty good.
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jbolts
Sep 7, 2005, 6:31 PM
Post #47 of 51
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Registered: Jul 31, 2005
Posts: 24
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Well these are stil for sale on Ebay....what's the verdict nay or yay? :?:
bolts
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lajhanata
Sep 20, 2005, 5:19 PM
Post #48 of 51
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Registered: Sep 19, 2005
Posts: 81
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So I bought a set of these wired tricams off of e-bay in late May and have climbed on them all summer. To tell you the truth, they aren't that different than a Camp tri-cam, which I also climb on a lot. Both have basically the same camming action and both are a little tricky to place in comparison to a nut or an SLCD. The difference is mostly in the wire, which has the benefit of providing a better substitute for a wired nut than a normal CAMP tricam, but also makes the Viamont number more prone to walking and harder to place actively in the small sizes.
My nimrod partner placed one of my brand new nuts in a slot that was too small for it (#8 black diamond Nut), and then pounded it until it looked like a copperhead before giving up and leaving it at the top of Haystack at Lovers. Since then I've been sporting the #3 viamont tricam in its place with a great deal of satisfaction. It places especially well with the wired angle of the triangle deep in the crack (when weighted the wire causes the whole piece to dig deeper into hourglass cracks), but also places active with a little finger manipulation. Their easiest placements are pretty similar to ideal Tricam placements, but they are a little more of a right triangle shape, less of a scalene like the Camps (that's why they have a better range in the big sizes).
Other miscellaneous stuff: the #6 has a little extra junk in the trunk (weighs a lot and gets tangled on the rack easily); the wires definitely take a lot of use to break in effectively but are handy for setting; they require a little placement practice; the swaging wears off after hard use; the holes in the bigger ones make them easy to dislodge with a nut tool (even if you've got to pound them for some reason, you're just damaging the inside of the hole); the #1 (way smaller than a .5 tricam) is tricky to place with one hand and hard to remove; and lots of people are persnickety about their tricams and are afraid to rack these wired ones.
Overall, I like them as part of my nut rack especially in the alpine when I'm running a thin rack (more placement options than a normal nut). When I'm just at the crag I usually have the Viamonts on my nut rack (minus the #6) and a few Camps hanging out on the back. I prefer the Camps for anchors, but place the Viamonts more on the move. The whole thing is sort of splitting hairs because they take each others' place nicely. I will say that the Viamonts are a steal price wise, and they ship pretty fast (Czech Republic to Tahoe in 6 days). I'm happy.
Lajhanata
PS- Viamont doesn't make as big a range as CAMP. I love the big CAMP pieces for replacing my 3, 3.5, and 4 Camalots on alpine routes with long approaches. My partner saved his party on the Mathes Crest with a #6 Camp tricam. CAMP definitely has the best design for these big ones. Imagine the Weight of a solid #7 Camp tricam, then imagine it wired and walking out of an anchor. Stick to the small sizes Viamont.
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healyje
Sep 20, 2005, 5:32 PM
Post #49 of 51
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Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4204
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They work on the same idea, but with less versatility. The principal drawback to the design is the stiff wire which makes them great to place (in both verticals and horizontals), but can make them exceedingly difficult to remove due to the "spring" action the wire is constantly exerting on the piece - in essense there is no "trigger bar" you can squeeze to relieve the spring tension while getting them out.
What Malcolm said...
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lajhanata
Sep 20, 2005, 5:50 PM
Post #50 of 51
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Registered: Sep 19, 2005
Posts: 81
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The spring tension seems over rated to me. It's sort of a pain for the #1, but thats because of the space tolerances (I have the same problems with my .5 CAMP, though not as bad as the smaller Viamont). Other than that the tension on the wire is pretty minimal. It's definitely not going to hold the piece there in a fall, so a simple yank almost always removes the piece if it isn't placed well. Besides, the tension wears out after good use. I'd also like to say that the wire tension isn't particularly helpful in placement either. In fact, it's more of a problem there than anywhere else because the springiness of the wire tends to falsely set the cam on any little crystal it can reach. Thus, I don't place these pieces very deep if I can help it. Still, a Nut tool pulls these pieces easier than a CAMP in most cases.
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healyje
Sep 20, 2005, 5:54 PM
Post #51 of 51
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Registered: Aug 22, 2004
Posts: 4204
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In reply to: The spring tension seems over rated to me. It's sort of a pain for the #1, but thats because of the space tolerances (I have the same problems with my .5 CAMP, though not as bad as the smaller Viamont). Other than that the tension on the wire is pretty minimal. It's definitely not going to hold the piece there in a fall, so a simple yank almost always removes the piece if it isn't placed well. Besides, the tension wears out after good use. I'd also like to say that the wire tension isn't particularly helpful in placement either. In fact, it's more of a problem there than anywhere else because the springiness of the wire tends to falsely set the cam on any little crystal it can reach. Thus, I don't place these pieces very deep if I can help it. Still, a Nut tool pulls these pieces easier than a CAMP in most cases.
I'll defer to your obviously more thorough experience with them - mine was short-lived and they went back on ebay immediately and that was my impression of them, but the wires were all new and quite stiff.
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