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braon
Sep 25, 2003, 3:54 PM
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Question for those of you with a couple of walls under your belts ... How many walls have you bailed off of and how many have you actually summited? Also, what are some of the different reasons you've had to bail? Slow parties ahead, weather, dropping the pig ... whatever. Were you solo, with a partner, in a threesome (kinky :wink: ). Just trying to get a feel for others' experiences so I have an idea of what to expect as I start to explore this new (for me) facet of climbing.
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dingus
Sep 25, 2003, 3:58 PM
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I'm 5 for 8... bailed on 3.
Bailed from Texas Flake area on the Nose due to congestion (4 parties, 2 of them with 4 members each) betwixt us and the top. (the raps were far scarier than the climbing!)
Bailed from Half Dome when my partner refused to lead the next pitch. (p2)
Bailed from a wilderness wall FA attempt when my wife called and asked that I come home ASAP.
DMT
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bandycoot
Sep 25, 2003, 4:29 PM
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Bailed on Half Dome when temperatures soared to 105+ We were drinking gallons of water each day and still extrememly dehydrated... Plus the hike in killed us!
Josh
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epic_ed
Sep 25, 2003, 4:48 PM
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Bailed? Did someone say "bailed"? Oh yeah! I'm the freakin king of bail. Read some of my TRs to get an idea of why, but it genereally comes down to inexperience. I'm two for...six. Bailed off the Prow twice; Zodiac once; Prodigal Sun once; Moonlight Buttress once.
Not once have I bailed because the route was too difficult or because I came across a section that I couldn't/didn't want to lead. It's always been because of logistics and moving too slow to make enough progress to finish in a reasonable amount of time. Anchor CFs, change over between pitches, and hauling has killed me on previous walls. The only way to over come that is more practice.
When I started planning to do walls I focused quite a bit on my systems and movement while leading. I'd hop on all sorts of stuff and feel experienced enough to lead most any A3/C3 pitch out there (expando stuff excluded at this point). Problem is, there's not a lot of multi-pitch aid stuff I've climbed so while I have lead a lot of aid pitches, I haven't done nearly enough pitches back to back in order to work out the whole anchor/haul/change over stuff. My advice is to make absolutely sure you are working these aspects of big wall climbing into your training mix. It's as important as learning moving systems while on lead and can shut you down completely if you're not prepared.
Ed
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crotch
Sep 25, 2003, 4:54 PM
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Bailed 4 pitches up S. Face of Washington's Column - Brought too much crap, partner hurt his back manhandling the bags. First wall.
Bailed 6 pitches up S. Face of Washington's Column - Partner fell, core shot to rope. Scared. Retreat.
Bailed 3 pitches up Pan-American Route - Too hot, not enough water, too slow.
Bailed 9 pitches up Rainbow Wall - Storm, epic rappels in watercourse.
Bailed 10 pitches up Triple Direct - Too slow, too lame.
Total success rate 6 of 11. Now, the times that I did make it up, we could have used any of the above excuses to justify bailing, but we kept going anyways.
Edit to add: Bailed 4 pitches up Moonlight Buttress - Rain some time between bailing off SFWC and the Pan-Am.
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brutusofwyde
Sep 25, 2003, 4:56 PM
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Bailed on East Buttress El Cap after one bivy, wall stomach.
Got it the next year, bivying twice.
Bailed Leaning Tower -- Wall stomach
Climbed Leaning Tower.
Climbed it again.
Climbed Prow on Washington Column.
Climbed Skull Queen in Winter.
Climbed South Face Column.
Climbed South Central.
Bailed off Bastille Buttress due to no bat hooks.
Bailed again due to Wall Stomach
One of the few climbs remaining on the "Double Grudge List"
Bailed off Tribal Rite due to snowstorms.
Climbed Half Dome.
Climbed it again.
Stormed off from the 11th pitch.
Climbed it again.
Bailed at the base trying HDIAD. Wall Stomach.
Bailed off Golden Bough near Ribbon Falls in rainstorm.
Climbed Golden Bough.
Climbed Gold Wall.
Climbed Lurking Fear.
Bailed off West Buttress El Cap due to multiple hornet stings on the approach.
Climbed Magic Mushroom.
Climbed Salathe' Wall.
Bailed off Salathe Wall due to partner injuries sustained in a fall on Free Blast.
Climbed Salathe Wall again.
Climbed Muir Wall.
Climbed Nose.
Climbed Tempest.
Climbed Zenyatta Mondatta.
Climbed Tangerine Trip.
Climbed Zodiac.
Bailed off Banzai on Calaveras Dome in deluge.
Bailed off Banzai on Calaveras Dome in deluge.
Bailed off Banzai on Calaveras Dome in deluge.
Climbed Banzai on Calaveras Dome in heat wave.
Bailed off Cinco de Mayo when ran out of time.
Finished the route the next year.
Climbed South Face Lone Pine Peak.
Bailed off Windhorse (S. Face Lone Pine Peak) due to weather.
Bailed off Windhorse due to lack of time.
Completed Windhorse the following year.
Bailed off Hairline (E. Face Whitney) ran out of time, needed more bolts
Completed Hairline the following year.
Bailed off Summer Ridge (S. Face Lone Pine peak) because we were trying Winter Route and got off route.
Completed Summer Ridge 17 years later.
This is by no means a comprehensive nor chronological list, but it gives a flavor for my failures and successes.
Brutus
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krillen
Sep 25, 2003, 5:00 PM
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What's "Wall Stomach?"
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epic_ed
Sep 25, 2003, 5:05 PM
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Otherwise known as "snail eye" or "small sack" syndrome. Scared. For whatever real or imagined reasons. Scared.
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iamthewallress
Sep 25, 2003, 5:12 PM
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1. summit
2. bail (too slow/cf'ed)
3. bail (too slow/cf'ed)
4.5 bail (partner ill, too slow)
4. bail (snail eye)
5. summit
6. summit
7. bail (stormed off)
8. bail (stormed off)
9. sort of a bail...only going as high as we could get in two days anyway...
10. summit
11. summit
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brutusofwyde
Sep 25, 2003, 5:18 PM
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In reply to: Otherwise known as "snail eye" or "small sack" syndrome. Scared. For whatever real or imagined reasons. Scared.
(nodding) It can manifest itself in many ways up to and including actual physical symptoms such as nausea, small but critical injuries, or sudden problems at home. The bottom line, as Crotch so aptly put it, is:
In reply to: Now, the times that I did make it up, we could have used any of the above excuses to justify bailing, but we kept going anyways. |
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flamer
Sep 25, 2003, 5:33 PM
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Bailed off spaceshot: first wall moving too slow. 4pitch's up
Bailed off the Prow: couple of French pricks moving way to slow in front of us- partner lost motivation. 2pitch's up
Bailed off Swoop Gimp or be Dust: partner got me in way over both our heads, should have listened to the little voice in my head... 5pitch's up.
climbed Prodigal son: with help from another party, should not have believed the lies an Ex GF told me about her climbing ability....
Bailed off solo attempt on Moonlight: WAY to many people up there...and they were dropping stuff! 4pitch's up
Bailed off spaceshot in a day attempt: Climbing with 3 one partner demanded we bail....5pitch's up.
Climbed the Prow: This felt great, this is when I really started enjoying walls
climbed Moonlight in 9hrs.: This started a trend and passion for me Light is right!
Climbed touchstone in 8hrs: did this the day after moonlight, super fun route.
Climbed S face Washington's column 10 1/2 hrs.: Fun Fun.
Climbed Lurking Fear: Fun route with great partner/friend
Climbed WFLT in 9hrs: First climb with new partner met some really cool Swede's
I fully believe you learn alot from bailing! It took me awhile before I really started to enjoy climbing walls. . I've learned alot about people from climbing/bailing off walls.
josh
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iamthewallress
Sep 25, 2003, 5:36 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Otherwise known as "snail eye" or "small sack" syndrome. Scared. For whatever real or imagined reasons. Scared. (nodding) It can manifest itself in many ways up to and including actual physical symptoms such as nausea, small but critical injuries, or sudden problems at home. The bottom line, as Crotch so aptly put it, is: In reply to: Now, the times that I did make it up, we could have used any of the above excuses to justify bailing, but we kept going anyways.
...If only...There were definitely times when I was so genuinely incompetant that I could not have finished in this century with any amount of courage. But there were also times, when I stood at the base and wanted to hurl. Or got to the top of the first or second pitch and decided that bailing would only get harder as I went up, and that since my jelly-guts told me that I would be bailing sooner or later, I might as well make hay...Before my next-to-last summit, I got the snail eye in the living room as I looked at all of our gear. I started to sob wondering how I'd ever be able to budge the bag. By the next day when we set to leave, I'd worked out some of my jitters. The last summit was kind of cool snail-eye-wise in that we decided just the day before to go for it. This won't work if you have a lot of logistics to work out, but for us it meant that by the time we got done getting our stuff in order, it was time to go...No time to start worrying.
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ep
Sep 25, 2003, 7:31 PM
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I've summited 13 times (6 times with partners, 7 times solo) and failed 9 times for the following reasons:
3x - fear, once on route, once at the base, once in the parking lot
2x - ran out of time
1x - rain, never made it to the base
1x - crowding at the base, never started up route
1x - really slow party ahead, rapped off
1x - jury duty, did a U-turn in Oakdale
All but two of these were solo attempts that failed. I tend to give myself a lot of slack to chicken out when alone. There are numerous times I've planned to do a wall alone and never even got out of the driveway. Sometimes false bravado can keep a party of two going. But not always.
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apollodorus
Sep 25, 2003, 7:46 PM
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I've never bailed, but only because of more experienced partners. Taking too much stuff on my most recent 3 walls was a definite advantage, even though they took a long time to go up. Tenacity and the will to continue in the face of adversity (like dropping half our food, water and gear halfway up SE) is often the key to the summit.
Lost Arrow Direct; swung leads; 9-83
Excalibur; led 12 pitches; 6-02
Scorched Earth; led no pitches; 9-02
Bermuda Dunes; led 8+ pitches; 6-03
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bumblie
Sep 25, 2003, 8:04 PM
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In reply to: Bailed from Half Dome when my partner refused to lead the next pitch. (p2)
Too funny. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Know thy partner.
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braon
Sep 25, 2003, 8:37 PM
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Thanks for all the input, guys. Sounds like if I want to have any success, I really need to sack up and prepare myself mentally before I even think about leaving my garage.
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drunkenmonkey
Sep 30, 2003, 9:59 AM
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Braon
very sensible question and one that i was thinking about a lot last year. I, like you, am new to this aid climbing game but at the moment I have the good fortun to have a 3 for 3 record.
Prow 4 days
(ran out of water 1/2 day from top, forced bivy on top & heat stroke on the way down, mmm nice!)
Zodiac 4 days clean
WFLT 18hrs
this hit rate i expect to decrease (significantl) in the coming years but i put this early success down to preperation and determination.
My friends and i read everything we could get our hands on, tried out all of the different systems we heard about and even, god forbid, worked on our cardio. This put us in the position of being able to do all of the tech stuff without thinking too much and gave the best part of our concentration each day to dealing with life on the wall which was a hug departure from the norm as well as the vertical.
If your starting aid climbing just practice every technical element you can before you get on the wall, after that its easy! I think!
Take it easy :wink:
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ricardol
Sep 30, 2003, 3:48 PM
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well .. my experience is rather limited .. but i watched many parties bail on zodiac and other routes on the captain this september ..
.. whatr i noticed was that most of them bailed on the 2nd or 3rd day .. (before the 1/2 point) ..
.. i also noticed that mentally i didn't start enjoying the route until i had passed the 1/2 point... before that all i wanted to do was be somewhere else..
.. so keep your head down and push until you get more than 1/2 way through a wall .. and you'll probably make the top
..also helps to carry plenty of water and food .. i got lucky that i got good advice on how much to bring..
-- ricardo
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jliebgott
Sep 30, 2003, 3:52 PM
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Bailed on WF of Leaning Tower - people crux
Summit WF of Leaning Tower
... decided walls too much work.
... decided walls are fun.
Summit on East Buttress of El Cap (sorta a wall)
Bailed on Half Dome IAD - people crux (8 parties above)
Bailed on Washington Column (euroVan head gasket fails, destroys all hope).
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dingus
Sep 30, 2003, 4:38 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Bailed from Half Dome when my partner refused to lead the next pitch. (p2) Too funny. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Know thy partner.
Too true! As it is, the guy who bailed on me is one of my main partners and a very very good friend. We've been climbing together for more than 10 years. We STILL climb together frequently.
The thing is this... he puts up with my bullshit so I put up with his. Yeah, he refused to take the next lead and I was unwilling (and too sullen) to lead every pitch. And we bailed.
It rained, hard, the very next day. So in our defeat we patted each other on the back for our "wise" decision, hehe.
He's also summitted two walls with me and he's no quitter at heart.
I love my partners.
DMT
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elrojobdugs
Sep 30, 2003, 4:45 PM
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are u including routes where u could have continued but chose not too... for example climbing a nice route, but not wanting to do the second pitch...???
otherwise i bailed on one that i just wanted to try, it was some insanely impossible overhanging 5.13 or somethin
but i dont have the most routes under my belt... so hopefully ill have some more
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flamer
Sep 30, 2003, 8:13 PM
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Dude I hope you're a troll and just not as stupid as you sound.
Two words- BIG WALL!!
josh
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iamthewallress
Sep 30, 2003, 8:25 PM
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In reply to: Dude I hope you're a troll and just not as stupid as you sound. Two words- BIG WALL!! josh
Sadly, josh, some of the pitches that sent me back to the ground were a mere 5.11+ (aka a too-slow C1) :wink:
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flamer
Sep 30, 2003, 8:39 PM
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Mel,
I pretty sure he's talking about sport climbing....he's certainly not talking about climbing walls...
josh
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iamthewallress
Sep 30, 2003, 8:47 PM
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In reply to: Mel, I pretty sure he's talking about sport climbing....he's certainly not talking about climbing walls... josh
I realized that. I was just joking because a lot of my "walls" are free climbs for the exceptionally able... :oops:
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elrojobdugs
Sep 30, 2003, 10:09 PM
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In reply to: flamer wrote: Mel, I pretty sure he's talking about sport climbing....he's certainly not talking about climbing walls... josh In reply to: iamthewallress wrote: I realized that. I was just joking because a lot of my "walls" are free climbs for the exceptionally able...
whoops i posted before thinking... brain fart pfffft... scuse me :oops:
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rvega
Sep 30, 2003, 10:47 PM
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Bailed off Snake Dike which was to be my first big wall. Why? Took us six hours to find it. Did only the first three pitches and hiked back to Curry Village in the middle of the night. Lame.
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iamthewallress
Sep 30, 2003, 10:55 PM
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Word nazi alert....
If its < Grade V and goes free at 5.10 or less, most people probably wouldn't consider it a "Big Wall".
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braon
Sep 30, 2003, 11:04 PM
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So would less than grade V be a little wall? :wink:
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atg200
Oct 1, 2003, 2:02 AM
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In reply to: Bailed off Snake Dike which was to be my first big wall. Why? Took us six hours to find it. Did only the first three pitches and hiked back to Curry Village in the middle of the night. Lame.
yeah, i sympathize. humping the portaledge and the pigs up to the base of snake dike is a lot of work, and the hauling sucks. next time try an easier wall like zodiac on el cap. good luck!
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lambone
Oct 1, 2003, 3:26 AM
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Every time I have had to bail off a wall (4), it has been because my partner(s) wasn't ready to commit.
This pretty much sucks ass, especialy when you are totaly gung ho for the climb...but when they are your good friends, what can you do...blaming them doesn't help things, and might end a good friendship.
Better just to let it go and try again sometime. After you go through enough uncommited partners you'll decide to just do it on your own.
Not until you try it alone, will you know if it was only your partners who were uncommited...or if you yourself was just as much to blame.
Any other reasons are just cheap excuses not to commit to the adventure.
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ecowain
Oct 2, 2003, 7:14 AM
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rvega, why back off Snake Dyke just because it got dark? It's a moonlight classic! Of course this does make it hard to see the bolts. (I think I can still hear Scott calling down "I think I missed the bolt" just before he reached the end of the rope :-))
One thing I did think seeing Half Dome in the moonlight was that it looked skiiable. I wonder how far down the summit slabs you could ski before any snow cover would slide off and down the side ;-)
On the failing walls bit, jugging on WFLT's lower pitches in the dark were nearly enough to make me call off my first wall!
ecowain.
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bigwalljunkie
Oct 3, 2003, 5:23 PM
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i am lucky that i have had more success then failure..i figure that you need to be mentally strong and accept the fact that your route du jour is fun yet dangerous and you'll be able to diminish fear and step up
1. Summit on "lurking fear"
2. bailed on "zodiac" in july due to shitty weather( rain and lightning), (3 fixed)
3. summit on "eagles way"
4. Summit "Zodiac"
5. bail on " PO Wall" due to partner problems ( 1 fixed)
6. Failed on " ten days after" washingtons column ( 2 fixed)
7. Summit on "the Sheild"
8. Failed on " wall of early morning light" due to weather ( rain/snow) ( rapped 6)
8. Summit on " Salathe" 16 hours
9. Summit on "jesus built my hotrod" leaning tower
10. Summit on " Reticent wall" el cap
11. failed on winter attempt of "Big Chill" Half Dome
12. Summit on "Nose" El cap 23 hours
13. Summit on " Sea of Dreams"
14. Summit on "Zenith"
15. Summit on " Magic Mushroom"
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ricardol
Oct 3, 2003, 8:24 PM
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In reply to: Not until you try it alone, will you know if it was only your partners who were uncommited...or if you yourself was just as much to blame. Any other reasons are just cheap excuses not to commit to the adventure.
.. i whole heartedly agreee ..
i was so scared to get on zodiac last month that i searched high and low foro a partner .. and twice i scored partners .. one at camp4 and one at the base ..
.. both partners bailed on me .. (for lots of different reasons) .. and so finally it came down to making a choice -- either go at it alone .. or not do it at all .. i'm glad i choose to have the adventure
-- ricardo
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nefarius
Oct 12, 2003, 6:58 PM
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First off, can't tell you how impressive your choice and climb were, Ricardo! When I hung out with Pete in Yosa week ago, it was all he could talk about for a few minutes. Right on, man!
After having bailed on my first wall attempt, only yesterday, this post hits home hard! My partner (janeofthejungle) and I were forced to bail off of Leaning Tower (before we got off of the ground) due to the number of parties ahead of us. There were 8 people on the wall, all of them on the lower half. The last group hadn't even gotten their last person on pitch one by 2:30.
I am sooo bummed to have had to bail, ESPECIALLY when it was due to things beyond my control. Reading this post and seeing just how often it happens made me feel better. I think it's sympathy, not empathy that REALLY makes us feel better. When I got home, my fiance was really bummed too, and certainly empathized with me. And, even being a climber herself, I'm not sure she understands the undertaking we set out for, what it meant to us and how it felt to have to bail... It sucks A$$, doesn't it?
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climbingcowboy
Oct 13, 2003, 12:08 AM
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Count me in I bailed this year on my first attempt at a wall the Prow. Lots of issues why. I think next year I'm going to try to get someone who has summited before as my partner, so I'll have a kind of a back up to make sure we make it up, but I still want to lead all the harder pitches. I know I'm going up it this time. The first time was all good though I learned alot, and come this spring nothing will stop me from summiting, even if its just out of being to stubbern to quit. :wink:
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bandycoot
Oct 13, 2003, 12:41 AM
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I'm amused that this thread is up on the front page again. I just returned from a successful bid for the Regular NW Face of Half Dome. 3 days, including approach. I lead every pitch with the wife jugging/following. It was spectacular. I found the only thing that really scared me was the weather because that was out of my control. I almost suggested not doing it because we had been in Tuolumne the previous few days and it was COLD. Fortunately the weather was perfect down in the Valley and we were able to do it with 3 gallons of water between the 2 of us from car to car! Light is right....
Josh
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dirko
Oct 13, 2003, 1:51 AM
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I'm 5 for 9. That's about averege, I guess? It helps not to solo them.
Hey, but I'm 3 for 4 in the rain. That's the real stat.
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climbhigher
Dec 5, 2003, 12:18 AM
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If you solo, everybody is happy or nobodys happy. Here's my record.
1st wall 1st grade VI summit Diagonal to Dunn Westbay, Diamond longs peak (1996)
Summit Lunar X (No fixing Lines) (1996)
Summit 6hrs Touchstone (No fixing Lines) (1996)
Summit Moonlight Butt 11/2 days. (9 hrs. if you count speed accents like Pete does Ha Ha ha ha ha.....) (NO fixing Lines) (1997)
Failed soloing Prodigal Son only got one pitch off the ground (1997)
Summit Solo Prodigal Son in a Proud 5 days.(No fixing Lines) (2002)
Failed speed soloing Spaceshot (one pitch up the head wall) i wussed out (1997)
Failed with partner and soloing after partner left ,Idi odyessey Zion. rain and for the most part, i wussed out!!!!! (2002)
Summit Washingtion Column fixed 3 pitchs. (2002)
Failed Speed accent of Lurking Fear bailed 11th pitch. Once again didn't (2002)want to suffer partner was going to slow and it all came down to "I WUSSED OUT!!!"
Summit Zodiac - (No fixing Lines) 1/2 pitch when Orientals got in our way. (2002)
Summit The"Nose" My dream climb!!!!! (No Fixing Lines) proud 7 days sleeping on all the ledges. (2002)
So i have been pretty fortunate only to fail speed climbing walls
and i guess i got a pretty weak Wall resume..... Compared to some people.
I plan on spending another season in the Valley next summer and add to my big walling experience. I learned alot and have had no negative experiences on any of these walls success or failer.
Oh yeah i lead the 2 first two pitchs of Never Never Land....1st pitch 5.8 i lead or i guess you could say i soloed it since i used a 6mil static line because sean forgot the lead line and i was pissed and the 2nd pitch was a sandbag A1 170' foot traverse pitch with two pengi's and lots of hooking for Pete and gang. It was seans first real traverse aid clean and it was a difficult one. It only took him 5hrs!!! to clean it (LOL). It just Was not my GIG. Pete has a diferent kind of idea when it comes to wall climbing then me. I don't like fixing ropes and having stuff scattered from one end of El Cap to the other end. Plus, Pete has Ghetto gear. Get some new gear PETE!!! Hell, I lived in the dirt of camp 4 for 5 months and still I have better gear then yours.
I am glad you guys topped out. I thought you guys got the chop and was Talus food when i didn't see you guys for 3 days after you guys got to Thanksgiving ledge??? I was going to go up to the talus at the bottom of Lurking Fear and claim my Hybrid aliens back.
I send ground- up for the most part. I like Royal Robbins style of wall climbing for the added adventure.
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climbhigher
Dec 5, 2003, 4:25 PM
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Hey I love to Spray....LOL. No problem for me as long as you are honest with youself and with everybody else.
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ricardol
Dec 5, 2003, 5:08 PM
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that part is true ..
pete's gear is pretty ghetto ..
-- ricardo
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mtnjohn
Dec 5, 2003, 5:33 PM
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I so hope that I've been suckered into a troll,
I man people really aren't hauling & bivying on The East Butress of El Cap
or SnakeDike.
It's got to be a joke, right?
right?
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dirko
Dec 5, 2003, 5:40 PM
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Nevermind my top-outs...sometimes you're just fuct.
7/01--SFWC--A hard case of "solo thy first wall" disease, initiated by girl problems. Luckily the illness did not prove to be chronic. A 30-foot whipper and light rain provide justification for the bail. (Bail actually caused by my acute lack of climbing skill.)
7/01--HD(IAD)--Who was I kidding? The 25-pound back was not fun to jug with. Also we lack neccessary free-climbing speed.
7/03--SFWC(IAD)--Started a fight with climbing parter/girlfriend. Brilliant.
That makes me 4 for 7. Just do it.
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mauta
Dec 5, 2003, 6:44 PM
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I have read this long thread about bigwallers and their stories about route bails...Very interesting indeed. I just want to add the following:
As a simple sport climber (and not particulary gifted, by the way...), i think that NONE OF YOU REALLY FAILED.
To have the commitement and mental strenght to afford those kind of routes is already a personal VICTORY. To make to the TOP is an "extra", just that.
:wink:
PD: AFAIK, the first time R. messner arrived at the base of nanga Parbat for his solo attempt, he realized he was not yet mentally prepared for such a climb, and bailed... Some years after, he returned and accomplished the first ever solo ascent of an 8000m peak.
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tradclmbr
Feb 23, 2006, 3:46 PM
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1 for 3
1. bailed on WFLT > woke up on awahnee after a great first day and a starry night to find dark clouds closing in on the valley...partner and I (both new to this) decide to bail (instant decision...and suddenly both of us very happy). I have to go clean 5/6 that he had fixed the day before. Rap from 6 back to awahnee put heart in my throat. Luckily free climbing studs had fixed lines on 1-4 to ease our bail. Rain starts when we hit the 4th class traverse providing ego-salvaging validation for bailing
2. bailed on shield (actually 2 pitches above mamoth before turning off on shield). Moving too slow (me) and more experienced parnter (wisely) came to the realization that though I was eager and he wanted to believe > I was in no way ready to pull up onto that headwall.
(interlude) Confidence shot... friend makes comment from Eiger Sanction about me coming up with an exit plan since I have so much experience with bailing (forget exact quote).
4. Launch up Lurking Fear with two easy going guys and summit after 2 nights, no problems, much fun.
(post-script) Confidence restored and foolish enough to try again
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camhead
Feb 23, 2006, 4:37 PM
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Whoa, this is quite a thread ressurection!
Anyway, the first and only wall that I tried was a bail. Tried to do the regular South Face of Mt. Watkins, took WAY too much gear, approach and hauling were miserable (imagine hauling on 1000 feet of chossy 5.4 to get to the base of the route). We got to just below the Sheraton Watkins ledge, but couldn't get to it, as a big rainstorm soaked the runout slab pitch below it.
So we bailed.
Next time, I'm sticking to the steep stuff!
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dingus
Feb 23, 2006, 4:51 PM
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OK then!
Lets see, since then, 3 more bails on 2 routes, summited on both courtesy of Brutus, haha. I'm sure I have many more bails before I sleep (hopefully!)
DMT
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alpinestylist
Feb 23, 2006, 5:43 PM
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I would hope I was 50/50
On just teh Diamond alone I would suspect Im 6 up 20 tries? Guess (all styles, winter/summer, aid/free, camp/push)
El Cap....probably 9 for 15?
The Black 4/6 (thats 2 heinous hate hikes out in winter!)
Other spots about the same
I bailed way more when I was younger, now I bail from my house, instead of 3rd pitch mostly. If I make it too the trail better success rate these days.
You only fail when you quit
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healyje
Feb 23, 2006, 5:47 PM
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In reply to: Bailed? Did someone say "bailed"? Oh yeah! I'm the freakin king of bail. Read some of my TRs to get an idea of why, but it genereally comes down to inexperience. I'm two for...six. Bailed off the Prow twice; Zodiac once; Prodigal Sun once; Moonlight Buttress once.
Ed,
Never met you or talked to you, only read your posts on ST, and I haven't done a wall yet. But for some strange reason I think, after I try a solo, that you're the one I'd rather get on a wall with than almost anyone else. Sure, there are the experienced dream partners like Werner, Ammon, Ivo (and Texplorer), but somehow I get the sense it would be all the more satisfying to top out with you than anybody else. Who knows? But you keep at it as you are actually a source of considerable example and inspiration for me...
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rockkid55
Feb 23, 2006, 5:52 PM
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Would Snake Dike (aka Snake Hike) be considered Big Wall? I didn't think so. A buddy of mine got up one morning and said, "Let's do snake dike." We were stupid and did not get info on finding the climber's trail that leads to Lost Lake and all that.
So. We spent about five hours looking for it. When we found it, we ran our asses up the trail and then I stepped on a rattle snake and freaked out and fell down the hill. We decided to turn back.
But its a good thing we did, if, according to some posters, snake dike requires bloody portaledges. We just brought a minimal rack. We'd heard it was just long run-outs between bolts.
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krusher4
Feb 23, 2006, 5:55 PM
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7 for 15 not even 50/50. Weather....and getting sketch out....
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brutusofwyde
Feb 23, 2006, 6:19 PM
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In reply to: I so hope that I've been suckered into a troll, I man people really aren't hauling & bivying on The East Butress of El Cap or SnakeDike. It's got to be a joke, right? right?
No troll. I've bivied on Snake Dike. Best way to be at the front of the line.
I've also hauled and bivied (and then retreated) on E. Butt El Cap. Learned more about climbing walls on that one trip than any one trip since. Wouldn't recommend it these days, but E. Buttress was a lot less crowded in 1978. And a lot of walls were a lot harder.
The East Buttress of El Cap took three days for the first ascent.
Why has it got to be a joke?
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climbhigher
Feb 23, 2006, 6:49 PM
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Hey, We where going to go do nutcracker in 3 days. But, woke up the next day with a big hangover. Guess that woud be a joke.
What all the Big Wall Veterans say is, If you push through the first 2 days, Your sucsess rate and enjoyment of the climb goes way up.
I am 10 for 14. These are on all easy to moderate walls. Have not climbed a "Hard" El Cap route yet.
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tradclmbr
Feb 23, 2006, 6:53 PM
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wow.........I really did (unknowingly) resurrect this post originating in 2003 (must have clicked on a related posts link). Still - somewhat comforting to know that bailing (still) isnt an anomoly!
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grippedclimer
Feb 23, 2006, 6:57 PM
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I love this Thread. If there was one thing I am good at it is bailing on walls!
1) West Face Leaning Tower - Summit
2) Suth Face/Southern Man of Washington Column - Summit
3) Moonlight Buttress - bailed on pitch 2 from rain.
4) Moonlight Buttress - Summit in 30 hour push in winter.
5) Prow on Washington Column - bailed from rain on p2.
6) Prow on Washington Column - partner got gripped jugging 1st pitch. Crapms in forearms - it was funny!
7) Lurking Fear El Cap - Summit
8) Muir Wall - not really Muir wall, jugging up fixed lines w/ haul bags to the heart w an ahole partner. I decided to bail, not fun!
9) Muir Wall - Bailed on Pitch 3. Partner and I got psyched out.
10) 10 days After Washington Column - Summit
11) Prodigal Son - bailed 2 pitches up from rain.
12) Lunar Ecstacy - bailed after my long 4 hour lead on C3 pitch 5. Ran out of time.
13) Zodiac on El Cap - nearly crapped my pants after taking a 30 footer near the end of the first ptich. Said screw it and went free climbing.
14) Spaceshot - summit.
After years of counseling I am fine! I am over wall climbing! hehe
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dingus
Feb 23, 2006, 7:05 PM
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I've learned book volumes from my master Brutus but perhaps the most lasting lesson(s) is this:
A. There is no shame in bailing. Period. and
B. When that dude latches on to the leg of a route, he don't let go. 1, 2, 3, whatever... if the route is worthy of his attention, he will be back to bring it home.
Tenacity coupled with a laid back, 'hey man, we're gonna have some fun, eat some good food and drink some beer while we're up here' is far preferrably to my way of thinking (and living) to the old Royal Robbins black and white 'searching, ever searching' angst and shit.
The last climb I did with Brutus I had to rig a belay directly beneath this god awful Sword of Domocles chockstone, with a hideous 9 inch overhanging crack running up its side. We weren't sure if the damn thing was even attached to the wall and a serious fall woulda rung my bell in maybe even a fatal way (long story).
The dude laughs the grave diggers' laugh... arranges 3 big bros and 2 Valley giants off the back of his harness and LAUNCHED UP THAT FUCKER.
Me? I was perfectly happy to jug it. The point is, in the midst of a very serioud wilderness wall outting, one we had previously bailed from for time... the man was back to settle a score. The alternative pitch was 150 feet of gruesome gardening... the man from Wyde opted for his home turf.
Cheers Brutus.
DMT
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guanoboy
Feb 23, 2006, 7:35 PM
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I guess i'm 9 for 20.
reasons for bailing
time constraints:
Partner had to catch a flight 1x
Winter soloing is really slow 3x
Not rested before start, moved too slowly 1x
injury
Partner broke foot 1x
Partners got altitude sickness 2x
Cut rope 1x
weather
Deep powder snow made access too difficult 1x
idiocy
off route (wrong mountain! - discovered at sunrise) 1x
I have succeeded on routes in winter and i've succeeded soloing (even soloing in winter) but these conditions have dramatically reduced success.
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skinner
Feb 23, 2006, 8:41 PM
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In reply to: Otherwise known as "snail eye" or "small sack" syndrome. Scared. For whatever real or imagined reasons. Scared.
In reply to: off route (wrong mountain! - discovered at sunrise) 1x |
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epic_ed
Feb 23, 2006, 10:56 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Bailed? Did someone say "bailed"? Oh yeah! I'm the freakin king of bail. Read some of my TRs to get an idea of why, but it genereally comes down to inexperience. I'm two for...six. Bailed off the Prow twice; Zodiac once; Prodigal Sun once; Moonlight Buttress once. Ed, Never met you or talked to you, only read your posts on ST, and I haven't done a wall yet. But for some strange reason I think, after I try a solo, that you're the one I'd rather get on a wall with than almost anyone else. Sure, there are the experienced dream partners like Werner, Ammon, Ivo ( and Texplorer), but somehow I get the sense it would be all the more satisfying to top out with you than anybody else. Who knows? But you keep at it as you are actually a source of considerable example and inspiration for me...
Thanks, Joe! I think it would be fun. Aren't you heading to Zion some time soon for that solo attempt?
A few more bails and one solo summit (Spaceshot) have been added since that first post. I figure I'll keeping going back to do Zodiac until I get it right. Another rematch with Moonlight may be in the works for April (David? any luck yet).
And if Kevin would make some plans to get his ass down here from the Great White North, I might be able to hook up with him for a wall, too!
Ed
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epic_ed
Feb 23, 2006, 11:03 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Otherwise known as "snail eye" or "small sack" syndrome. Scared. For whatever real or imagined reasons. Scared. Ok, can someone elaborate for- Mr. Naive (me).. "snail eye"?
Womens equivalent to "small ball" syndrome. I think Wallress coined that one.
Ed
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skinner
Feb 23, 2006, 11:23 PM
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In reply to: And if Kevin would make some plans to get his ass down here from the Great White North, I might be able to hook up with him for a wall, too! Ed
I'm workin on sometime around the end of April buddy!
In reply to: Womens equivalent to "small ball" syndrome. I think Wallress coined that one. Ed
Thanks for clearing that up
I don't think I've ever seen a snails eye to make the coloration
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golsen
Feb 24, 2006, 12:40 AM
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Bailed on Touchstone in Zion, about 1982, way too slow.
Returned a year later and sent.
Success on the Titan 1983 (I know its not a wall but it is a big pile of sand).
Success on Space Shot, Zions.
Bailed on Lowe Route N. Face of Angels Landing, again too slow,
Returned a year later and sent.
Bailed on Half Dome attempt in a day due to weather.
Bailed on Mt. Hooker in the Winds, technical difficulties and rain 7 out of 9 days.
Success on 3 of 3 Free Climbing walls in the Black.
Success on the Yellow Wall, the Diamond (another free climb in a day, but still a big wall IMO).
Bailed on Nose in a Day. Rapping from the Great Roof is quite a ways.
Returned to NIAD, 17 hours.
Sent Salathe in 23 hours.
That is 5 failures and 10 successes and two of them I have not been back to.
Failures were mainly because of speed. But on Mt Hooker, we had no topo, thought we were on a new route and it was hard, scary, wet, lonely and cold. 7 hook moves in a row off of the belay with a poor looking knifeblade crack to go to and wondering if we were really going the right way. I admit, I chickened out and my partner didn’t want it either. That was about 7 pitches up. After rapping off it totally dumped so it was fortuitous.
I agree with some here that you can learn a lot from those failures. One thing I learned after rapping off from the great roof of El Cap, that it was safe to get off that thing. When contemplating a day ascent of the big stone, it helps to know that you can bail easily. There are times to bail and times to keep on.
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iamthewallress
Feb 24, 2006, 2:39 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Otherwise known as "snail eye" or "small sack" syndrome. Scared. For whatever real or imagined reasons. Scared. Ok, can someone elaborate for- Mr. Naive (me).. "snail eye"? Womens equivalent to "small ball" syndrome. I think Wallress coined that one.
It's something that I've heard others say...I can't take credit.
It's when you have a big boner for a route, and then you actually get to the base and it wilts like a snails eye does when you touch it.
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skinner
Feb 24, 2006, 2:58 AM
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Ah okay then.. there's been many a time that I've "wilted" just from looking at the approach :)
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holdplease2
Feb 24, 2006, 6:56 AM
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Snail Eye:
You know, how when a snail has its "eyes" all extended out, and then you touch it and it sucks into its head, like nothing?
Well, you're stepping onto a bad hook, your dick is the snail eye, and it just got touched.
Thats gettin' snail eye.
-Kate.
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lambone
Feb 24, 2006, 6:57 AM
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Funny pmyche, actually I think I remember the bails more than the summits, they were certainly more emotional.
2 bails on WFLT...partner issues, it is allways their fault right?
1 bail on Tangerine Trip (p4), partner flake but he pulled through on 2nd attempt.
2 Bails on North America Wall (p2), partner flake and '04 October death storm.
5 EC summits, 3 LT summits, and 3 WC summits.
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texplorer
Feb 25, 2006, 1:21 AM
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Big walls are all about:
- planning
- getting a good partner
- waiting for the right weather
- being able to suck it up when your partner's huevos (snaileye) shrink
- and of course a little luck.
I know people that brag about their "epics." Some seem to revel in mishaps. While these make for entertaining stories I find that many times they are the result of poor planning and pure stupidity. While I am no genius or climbing juggernaut, I try to learn from others mistakes especially when confronting a new challenge. In additionto that, streamlining your own operation from previous experiences is important too. Probably what gets me up most things is a balls-to-the-wall attitude. I especially liked reading about Bridwell on the FA of the P.O. wall telling his disenchanted partners if they weren't with him then they could walk the plank. While I have never told a partner to walk the plank I try to embody the Bird's sentiments when climbing a daunting wall. You'll be surprised and proud of what you can accomplish with good planning, advice, and a good attitude.
Going down is only the option of last resort. I think we all to often leave ourselves an "out." Sometimes nature and bad luck will conspire against you but luck seems to have less to do with things the more I climb.
Anyway, just a few thoughts-
Tex
14 Walls savored to the summit
1 Bail endured to Sickle Ledge
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healyje
Feb 25, 2006, 2:24 AM
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Karsten - you da man!
pmyche - LOL! Good one...
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hosh
Feb 25, 2006, 3:55 AM
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The only time I tried a "wall" (though it really wasn't a "wall"), my partner and I sat down and talked long and hard about going up or turning back, on a really nice ledge (if only we had bivy gear!)... In the end, we decided to turn back due to weather moving in (cold and fast), lack of water (we literally ran out) and too much crap we didn't need relay and not enough crap we did need. We were moving way too slow (only 5 pitches in 9 hours!) due to nasty route finding, hard sections of climbing, and the fact that everytime we turned around to admire the view, it was absolutely breath-taking. We spent a lot of time at belay stations just drop-jawed and wide-eyed. The lamest thing was that another party (two of our friends, one of whom just happened to be a professional guide) just a rope-length to our left sumitted in the same time that it took us to get a little less than half way then bail. yeah, we're lame and weak. But we sure had a good time! The rest of our trip was spent in a tent on an ice feild in the rain. Lame. But, at the end of it all, I was the Champion of the Chess board, and that's almost as good as sumiting (yeah right)!
hosh.
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skinner
Feb 25, 2006, 5:11 AM
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In reply to: Snail Eye: You know, how when a snail has its "eyes" all extended out, and then you touch it and it sucks into its head, like nothing? Well, you're stepping onto a bad hook, your dick is the snail eye, and it just got touched. Thats gettin' snail eye. -Kate.
Ok.. I DEFINITELY get it, been on that bad hook.. been touched!
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addiroids
Feb 25, 2006, 5:14 AM
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My record is like 18 successes (counting Spaceshot as a "wall") and 4 fails, and 1 fixed rope for us.
First wall ever was SFWC. We were slow, I had to get back for a wedding...Gumbies.
#2 was WFLT. We had Spaz fix the last pitch for us b/c it was dark, and it was only my second wall. He wanted to pass us (IAD) so we just worked together with him and he returned the favor. Lesson here folks...If someone wants to pass, you help them do it if they want. Don't be dicks and not let someone pass!!!!
#3 Prodigal. Fixed to 3, and bailed from 8 the next day due to swinging leads and being gumbies again. Partner didn't wanna climb in the dark.
#4 Moonlight. Fixed to RB, and bailed at 9am due to rain.
#5 Prow. Buddy hyperextended his knee bad on a fall on P2 after the roof belay. I had to make 3 trips back to the car b/c he couldn't carry weight. That was my night of food poisoning in C4 where I honestly threw up 40 times that night.
FINALLY I MET MY CURRENT PARTNER!!!!!
We did the Prow in 6 hours after fixing to 2 the day before...topped out at 2:30pm!!! Holy shit...I like this stuff!!!
We have done Zod (2days), TT(2.5 days), NA(6 days), Prow(F&F), SQ(18hrs), TDA(F&F), WDD(15hrs), RRHD (day), LibCap(F&F), Keeler (10 hrs), Conness (12 hrs), Space Shot (6 hrs), Moonlight (7.5 hours), Lunar X (2days), Swoop Gimp (F&F), Cosmic Trauma (2days), and many others (only count V's and VI's except for SpaceShot b/c everyone else counts it).
I have wanted to bail on every route except for Moonlight. I have wanted to quit climbing on half of the routes and have said it to myself in my head. The thing about doing a wall with a partner is that both of you are very busy and don't have a lot of time to go play, so if you bail, not only are you screwing yourself, but you are fucking over your partner who spent $100 minimum to get to the Valley (or Rockreation for real rock walls) for gas and food, and now you are being a pussy. If weather is imminent and death will result, bail.
However if you are just going to be uncomfortable, or god forbid...suffer...keep on it. Just think about how those Bavarians are way harder than you are. Drag the fucking wedgie out of your pussy and keep climbing. Yes it will hurt, and yes, it will take longer than you want, but you decided to do it, so do it.
I like how someone said that if you make it over 1/2 way to the top, you are psyched and the bailing thoughts leave. Have faith in the system, have some sack, and commit.
Also, DON'T BITE OFF MORE THAN YOU CAN CHEW!!! I should be leading A4 walls now, but we are conservative in our objectives. Get some successes and do stuff attainable at first. Planning on Mesc or PO this April though, so that should be fun. Learn how to lead in blocks and short-fix. It will cut 1/3 of your time off!!! It ain't hard to figure out.
Good luck bro!!!!
TRADitionally yours,
Cali Dirtbag
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far_east_climber
Feb 25, 2006, 9:37 PM
Post #73 of 76
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Registered: Sep 30, 2003
Posts: 873
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How can I most honestly state my history?
Bailed WFLT P7- 2 slow parties ahead. Held up for 8 hours by someone on a pitch.
Bailed Prow IAD P6 - 2 long falls by partner, somewhat scratched up, motivation lost.
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far_east_climber
Feb 25, 2006, 9:38 PM
Post #74 of 76
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Registered: Sep 30, 2003
Posts: 873
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How can I most honestly state my history?
Bailed WFLT P7- 2 slow parties ahead. Held up for 8 hours by someone on a pitch.
Bailed Prow IAD P6 - 2 long falls by partner, somewhat scratched up, motivation lost.
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flamer
Feb 25, 2006, 11:51 PM
Post #75 of 76
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Registered: Oct 22, 2002
Posts: 2955
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How funny! I just got back from Zion and find this thread raised from the dead!!
Well let's see I guess we're all adding to our previous list's, so....
Since the last episode.....Crap! Does it have to be in order???
Summited Spaceshot....Actually showed up to try a 2nd ascent on the back side of The Great White Throne...got stuck in the mud trying to get too it....no go! So, same day decided on SS. Left the car at noon (in March) topped out just at dark...like 6hrs? Can't remember the exact time! Not that it matters, cause damn it was fun! Cool new partner..this was our first climb together.
Bailed off the Halli wall in the Black canyon, 5 pitch's up started raining/snowing about bed time....no fly on the ledge, bivy sack leaked, "sleeping" in water fall. The next morning? DOWN!! then back up the gulley, blah. Learned alot on this attempt though, my partner and I made good descion's(well other than not bringing a fly!). He wrote a TR about it on this site....
Summited Skull Queen F&F....had alot of fun with a new partner. Funny though, Now she doesn't RETURN MY CALLS?????? (yes I'm giving you shit!)
Summited OG Route on the Rainbow wall, Red rocks. 6.5 hrs. This route is incredible. Had a blast with another new partner, josh let's climb this spring? LOL, another new partner? Maybe there's a pattern?
Summited Reg. route on Halfdome. Interesting story...drove 2 straight days to get to the valley, set up camp, got to sleep about 1am. Woke up at 5am. Biked over to the trail head. Hiked the death slabs, climbed the route in 12hrs. Got lost getting back to the base(there was alot of snow up there early June2005!) Got lost in the death slabs...bivied!! My first unplanned bivy. First light we high tailed it to the Cafe. Great experience!
This time with an old friend/partner! Pattern broken!
Summit Lunar X, 13hrs no fixed ropes. This was done on wednesday(feb. 22nd 2006) what a sweet route. Super fun day with a great friend/partner.
Holy marathon post!
So I'm 12 for 18.
josh
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climbingcowboy
Feb 26, 2006, 8:55 AM
Post #76 of 76
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Registered: Jun 24, 2002
Posts: 1201
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Well I'm 50% now failed on the Prow but made it on SFWC. Man thats sad I really need to get on some more walls. Just gotta find a partner first. HINT HINT anyone
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