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climbsomething
Jan 21, 2004, 1:31 AM
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In reply to: Now being an elec. engineer and a numbers guy, I know my place when it comes to professional writing, but (this isn't meant to single you out climbsomething) if those of you who have writing skills submit articles, maybe they'd get better features.
I won't lie. I am a little bitter, a little green-eyed. I find it insulting as a "starving" writer that crap like Katie-Cedar-journal-buttshots get by on what must be a buddy network. I know of other climbing writers and photogs with demonstrable, superior, skills who get the cold shoulder. It's more than a little frustrating.
I am, however, confident that I will break through. And when I do that, feel free to slag my writing and arrogance next ;)
Dammit, I want my monkey too.
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jt512
Jan 21, 2004, 1:33 AM
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In reply to: Think of all the fun places you could leave your Tori Allen action figure! 2. Traded to ptpp in exchange for some big wall tips.
I really don't want to think about.... Never mind.
-Jay
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superfox
Jan 21, 2004, 1:44 AM
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I thought the best part of the article was when Tori was asked what the first thing that comes to mind when she thinks of climbing and she says "If it's outside, I hope it's sunny so I can get a tan, and if it's inside, I think 'I better call Autumn so I have someone to climb with'".
However, I thought that she was put in a completely negative light, and had there been anything redeeming about her and it her family, it would not have been published. Emily, on the other hand, is depicted as a saint who can do no wrong. No to say that she isn't one, but it is clear that the point of this article was to show how different these two people are, and any similarities would have been quickly disregarded.
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madriver
Jan 21, 2004, 2:05 AM
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...what criteria exempts this "cat fight" thread from the bowels of our beloved "community".....the fact that it has a thinly veiled reference to magazine journalism...?
...funny... 8)
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moabbeth
Jan 21, 2004, 2:07 AM
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In reply to: a few months back, in the quotes section of Climbing, they took something from her autobiograhy that went something like this: "I cant wait to get to California so I can climb on real Yosemite LIMESTONE to train for ElCap" that is not a direct quote, but none the less, it still shows her knowladge of climbing!
I remember that. For someone who spends as much time climbing as she does, that's just pathetic. If a noob made that statement, fine. But for a climber who thinks she's accomplished enough to warrant writing an autobiography on herself at her stage in life, it's just plain SAD. You'd think an editor would have caught that. Sure makes her look clueless.
The best thing about climbing outside is if it's sunny she gets a tan??? Is she really that shallow?
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dynamicpanda
Jan 21, 2004, 2:21 AM
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I agree with people that are bashing Tori. I am 16, the same age that Tori is so I think that this article (if it is truthful) gives me sort of an idea about the kind of person Tori is. She seems like the exact kind of person that I would avoid during school. My town has no gym (save the small one that my friends and I use) but i would probably be rather ashamed of myself if she showed up in the same climbing area as me. I know that sounds stupid and mean, but I can not stand people like that.
On climbing sucking, I agree. The magazine has gotten increasingly worse ever since Thesenga was fired. I know he shouldnt have set the J-Tree rock on fire, but he was way better than Jeff Achey. When Matt Samet went to R & I they lost yet another good writer (though i disagree with him on many of his opinions). Im not sure when John Long left, but without his portion of the mag, I became much less interested in reading Climbing. In my opinion John Long is pretty much the best ROCK climbing writer, whose material I have ever read. All 3 of these writers now write for R & I. Just cancel Climbing and subscribe to Rock & Ice.
One other thing, in my opinion, that thing that Katie wrote about how she used to go to comps so that she could climb a new route is a load of shit.
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granitegod
Jan 21, 2004, 2:23 AM
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Well, I can barely recall that article..... but c'mon people....she's a teenager for cryin' out loud. And let's at least give credit where credit's due: she's no slouch pulling plastic. She doesn't claim to be the top women's trad climber in the world, does she?
But until I can send something within a full number grade of her limit, even in the gym, I'm not gonna trash her. And since I may never break the 5.11 barrier again, being an old fat married fart.....I'd tell her nice send if I saw her in the gym.
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epic_ed
Jan 21, 2004, 2:23 AM
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In reply to: ...what criteria exempts this "cat fight" thread from the bowels of our beloved "community".....the fact that it has a thinly veiled reference to magazine journalism...? ...funny... 8)
Excellent point, actually. I think most of us have just been completely uninterested in any thread with the name "Tori Allen" in the title. Ashamed I even ducked in here...
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epic_ed
Jan 21, 2004, 2:24 AM
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epic_ed moved this thread from General to Community.
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camhead
Jan 21, 2004, 2:48 AM
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dude, ed, this thread does not belong in community. it is not offensive and it is certainly climbing-related.
get it back up on the front page where the masses can offer their opinions on the state of climbing culture today.
duh.
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coldclimb
Jan 21, 2004, 4:44 AM
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In reply to: dude, ed, this thread does not belong in community. it is not offensive and it is certainly climbing-related. get it back up on the front page where the masses can offer their opinions on the state of climbing culture today. duh.
Actually this whole thread is devoted to attacking an individual, which is expressly forbidden in the TOS. At best, it doesn't even deserve community.
How can so many people hate somebody so much when they have never even met her? I personally form no opinion of a person until I have met them personally, and can see for myself whether everything that everybody says is true or not. It would be a definite display of stupidity to do otherwise.
Sheesh.
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moabbeth
Jan 21, 2004, 4:54 AM
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In reply to: How can so many people hate somebody so much when they have never even met her?
I don't see anyone on this site screaming that they hate her. She's willingly put herself out as a public figure in the climbing world, writing a friggin autobiography at 16 for goddsakes...she wants people to listen to what she has to say. Which is why she was interviewed for a magazine. We can't help how she presents herself. I only see people in this thread offering opinions on Tori's own words. If her own words present her in a negative or shallow light, that's something that only Tori can change.
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madriver
Jan 21, 2004, 2:21 PM
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moabbeth wrote:
In reply to: I don't see anyone on this site screaming that they hate her. She's willingly put herself out as a public figure in the climbing world, writing a friggin autobiography at 16 for goddsakes...she wants people to listen to what she has to say. Which is why she was interviewed for a magazine. We can't help how she presents herself. I only see people in this thread offering opinions on Tori's own words. If her own words present her in a negative or shallow light, that's something that only Tori can change.
....hmmmmm....given your recent melodramas on this site....glad to see your sympathetic about a 15 year old girl.....
love,
MR 8)
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edge
Jan 21, 2004, 2:49 PM
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Well, speaking as someone who has met both girls and both parents on several occasions, I will say that Emily is a great kid.
Tori...
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bnjohns
Jan 21, 2004, 3:56 PM
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I think Katie Brown overplays her hand in that article right at the end when she writes "n Emily I've seen something recognizable and understandable, but in Tori I see a girl I want to understand but don't think I ever will." (p. 114)
This statement placed some doubt in my mind about whether the rest of the article was entirely, as they say, fair and balanced. Emily certainly comes off as much cooler, but that might be (at least partly) because Brown identifies with Emily more than with Tori.
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olive
Jan 21, 2004, 4:31 PM
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In reply to: I think Katie Brown overplays her hand in that article right at the end when she writes " n Emily I've seen something recognizable and understandable, but in Tori I see a girl I want to understand but don't think I ever will." (p. 114)
This statement placed some doubt in my mind about whether the rest of the article was entirely, as they say, fair and balanced. Emily certainly comes off as much cooler, but that might be (at least partly) because Brown identifies with Emily more than with Tori.
I agree; when I read the article I thought to myself that the article is more about Katie Brown than Tori and Emily; or it was more about what Katie thought of Emily and Tori. It had the sense that Katie Brown was looking at them and thinking about her past. I think she does identify with Emily and thus might reflect her in a more favorite light.
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evan
Jan 21, 2004, 4:47 PM
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warning: possible thread hijack...
Climbsomething,
I'm not going to weigh in with an opinion concerning the article in question; however, you've made several disparaging remarks about someone else's work that I happen to like. I realize that a person's opinion regarding the relative value of a piece of journalism rests largely on matters of personal taste, but I think you may have been rash in lambasting one of the authors you named.
I briefly skipped through Cedar Wright's last piece in Climbing magazine. I would have to read it again to form an opinion on the merits of the work, much less the overall style of the piece as a whole. I do know that you've mentioned his name several times on this forum in the context of less-than-inspiring climbing corespondents.
It takes a truly talented writer to create a first-person narrative that doesn't stink of narcissism or gets bogged down irrelevancies; that's why I don't write trip reports.
Maybe I just have bad taste, but I suggest you find a copy of Alpinist 2. There's an article in that issue called "The Uncertainty Principle" by Cedar which details some of his trials and tribulations freeing an aid line on Sentinel Rock in Yosemite with the late Jose Peraya. Cedar's most recent work notwithstanding, I hope you have read or take the time to read this article before forming such a strong opinion on Cedar's work as a whole. I'll do the same, and promptly make my way to Chapters to loiter in the periodicals and scrutinize his latest piece of work.
Regards,
Evan
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epic_ed
Jan 21, 2004, 4:55 PM
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Ed feeding into thread hijack...
I agree. That article in Alpinist was nice work. I also thought the article in Climbing was rather pitiful. Speaks volumes to me about the quality of the editing going on at Climbing at the moment.
Ed
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holdplease2
Jan 21, 2004, 5:07 PM
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Tori may not come off as a genuis. She also may not have enough insight into how people will respond to what she says well enough to pose with the skill of an adult climber, but based on my experiences with her, she is not a terrible girl and she is not a bad climber.
-Kate.
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climbsomething
Jan 21, 2004, 5:39 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: dude, ed, this thread does not belong in community. it is not offensive and it is certainly climbing-related. get it back up on the front page where the masses can offer their opinions on the state of climbing culture today. duh. Actually this whole thread is devoted to attacking an individual, which is expressly forbidden in the TOS. At best, it doesn't even deserve community. How can so many people hate somebody so much when they have never even met her? I personally form no opinion of a person until I have met them personally, and can see for myself whether everything that everybody says is true or not. It would be a definite display of stupidity to do otherwise. Sheesh.
I am not charmed by Tori's tactics, and/or those of her management squad. There. I didn't call her a nastyname. But even I wonder how fair the article was. I am willing to bet both Emily and Tori are a mix of angelic and innocent and she-wolf. It hasn't been that long since I was 16. I know teenage girls are usually a mix of nasty and nice. Maybe one more than the other, and maybe Tori is one of those girls who I'd have detested across homeroom, but I suspect the article was skewed nonetheless. Just look at these forums. It's popular opinion that Tori Allen is a self-serving, egotistical, fluff-brained, overhyped, underdressed, spoiled bitch. Why would the magazine portray any different? (they did run the quote about Tori wanting to climb Yosemite limestone... surely, she's not the only climber to say something incredibly stupid, but she's one of the less popular ones) You know climbers with an inner (or not-so-inner) cattiness are eating that piece up for its portrayal. Again, look around here.
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camhead
Jan 21, 2004, 5:50 PM
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right on hillary, yo.
In reply to: Actually this whole thread is devoted to attacking an individual, which is expressly forbidden in the TOS. At best, it doesn't even deserve community. How can so many people hate somebody so much when they have never even met her? I personally form no opinion of a person until I have met them personally, and can see for myself whether everything that everybody says is true or not. It would be a definite display of stupidity to do otherwise. Sheesh.
shaddupayamouth, coldclimb. you're just mad you ain't hittin' dat izzass.
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dingus
Jan 21, 2004, 6:54 PM
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In reply to: Actually this whole thread is devoted to attacking an individual, which is expressly forbidden in the TOS. At best, it doesn't even deserve community. How can so many people hate somebody so much when they have never even met her? I personally form no opinion of a person until I have met them personally, and can see for myself whether everything that everybody says is true or not. It would be a definite display of stupidity to do otherwise. Sheesh.
You sound all high and mighty and I don't believe you for a New York Minute. You don't form opinions of people you never met???
That means you have no opinion of George Bush, Osama Bin Laden or Peter Jennings, right? Kaka.
When we choose to participate in the theater of the public, then public opinion WILL BE FORMED. There is absolutely zero, LESS THAN ZERO, you can do about it, too.
And I fail to see this blatant attack you ascribe to this thread.
DMT
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madriver
Jan 21, 2004, 7:02 PM
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dingus wrote:
In reply to: You sound all high and mighty and I don't believe you for a New York Minute. You don't form opinions of people you never met??? That means you have no opinion of George Bush, Osama Bin Laden or Peter Jennings, right? Kaka. When we choose to participate in the theater of the public, then public opinion WILL BE FORMED. There is absolutely zero, LESS THAN ZERO, you can do about it, too. And I fail to see this blatant attack you ascribe to this thread. DMT
...agreed..
....if you post on this site about what and where you climb (spray) be prepared for opinions you may not agree with....
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brianinslc
Jan 21, 2004, 7:09 PM
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In reply to: On climbing sucking, I agree. The magazine has gotten increasingly worse ever since Thesenga was fired. I know he shouldnt have set the J-Tree rock on fire, but he was way better than Jeff Achey. When Matt Samet went to R & I they lost yet another good writer (though i disagree with him on many of his opinions). Im not sure when John Long left, but without his portion of the mag, I became much less interested in reading Climbing. In my opinion John Long is pretty much the best ROCK climbing writer, whose material I have ever read. All 3 of these writers now write for R & I. Just cancel Climbing and subscribe to Rock & Ice.
Arrghh...sputter, gag, ack...
Achey is a bright beacon in the Climbing wilderness...geez, thumb thru some old issues and read his stuff...loooong history of writing for the mags...and a fine job on reissuing "Climb!"...
Anyhoo, really glad to see him sign on. Will be interesting to watch the direction...
Brian in SLC
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iamthewallress
Jan 21, 2004, 7:20 PM
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In reply to: epic_ed moved this thread from General to Community.
Comments on R&I are worth a forum, but comments, both positive and negative, on Climbing and several professional climbers that have contributed to Climbing are the relegated to the "non-climbing related" "Choss Pile" of Community?
If people were talking about how arrogant Bachar was reported to be back in his hay day would it get nixed too our would it be considered "Climbing History and Trivia? I think that the public remarks of the superheros who are getting paid by the climbing industry that we all support to make public remarks about being superheros is fair game for discussion.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
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