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andy_reagan
Mar 7, 2004, 9:26 PM
Post #26 of 35
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free solo. its much more enjoyable. if you're not ready to ascend the climb solo style then youre not ready for the climb.
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berserk
Mar 7, 2004, 10:50 PM
Post #27 of 35
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Registered: May 15, 2003
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Quote:
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Hum... so I cant call mi sellf a Rockclimber till (I) led
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Sounds harsh, but a lot of climbers (especially the more seniors) would say exactly that!
And for the previous post where I'm bagged for using the passanger analogy. Well, I admit it was a poor one. However, you took it out of context and refer to someone who's 2nding. That's another story all together. Seconding is again harder than simply top-roping, as you have to stop and fiddle around to remove the gear placed by the leader. And on a trad-ascent this can sometimes be an adorous task, especially since you don't want to hang in the rope whilst doing so, to make your 2nd clean.
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mungeclimber
Mar 8, 2004, 12:34 AM
Post #28 of 35
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In reply to: Sure it would be a first ascent, but don't do it ground up if you can rap bolt it. That is of course just my opinion but to me if its not a mixed route, and putting bolts up isn't opposed to the local ethic then why not rap bolt it well. Frequently routes that have been bolted on lead have poorly placed bolts that are either maligned or replaced so why not do it the best you can the first time around.
weak sauce
there's no adventure in that, but even rap bolters flub placements.
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vegastradguy
Mar 8, 2004, 3:40 AM
Post #29 of 35
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free climbing and top roping are mutually exclusive in terms of describing how to get up a climb.
types of climbing:
Free Climbing
Aid Climbing
ways of ascending:
on lead
on TR.
completely separate issue. many crags around the West have TR only climbs and local ethics say keep them that way. and they all have FA. if you can TR a route, dont bolt it. just because it doesnt have bolts doesnt mean that it 'needs' them!
oh, and yeah, i've led a climb or two, and the mental game of course comes into play and yeah, its completely different between TR and lead, but both count as free ascents. sheesh.
ps- if you cant bolt a climb from the ground up, go home. that's just pathetic.
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berserk
Mar 8, 2004, 4:14 AM
Post #30 of 35
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Registered: May 15, 2003
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Quote:
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oh, and yeah, i've led a climb or two, and the mental game of course comes into play and yeah, its completely different between TR and lead, but both count as free ascents. sheesh.
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Again, you're missing the point. Top-rope is NOT a free ascent, it never has been, at it never will be. Does the word FREE mean anything to you????????????
Quote:
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ps- if you cant bolt a climb from the ground up, go home. that's just pathetic.
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No-one's making this clame. It's all in your own head dude! If you want to top-rope it, then do so. But don't claim the first free ascent. Sure, you may claim the first top-rope ascent (FTRA), but as soon as someone frees it, well the FTRA goes out the window. And if bolting is a no-no, that's well and fine too. Just means that it want have any FFA until someone bold enough comes along and solos it, or simply is capable of finding some gear placements where you didn't. You might be surprised!!!
And why is top-rope not looked upon as a free ascent? Well, that is very simple. Traditionally, any climbs was a means to get to the top, and new routes with new difficulties were always challenged. "I got to the summit by route X, now let's see if I can get up by route Y". Hence you had to (and still have to) start from the ground and work yourself up. By setting up top-ropes, you've already been to the summit via another route. Defeats the purpose, really.
Now, if you cannot see that, I'm giving up. There's only a limited amount of time one bothers trying to explain things to the lesser intellect.
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jv
Mar 8, 2004, 4:40 AM
Post #31 of 35
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Registered: Sep 26, 2003
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In reply to: Again, you're missing the point. Top-rope is NOT a free ascent, it never has been, at it never will be. Does the word FREE mean anything to you????????????
Equinox - 5.12c
FA: John Bachar (TR), Tony Yaniro (RP)
So regardless of whether the rope goes up or down from your harness, it's free, _and_ you can get credit for the first ascent, though it is inferior to a first lead.
In reply to: Now, if you cannot see that, I'm giving up. There's only a limited amount of time one bothers trying to explain things to the lesser intellect.
Look who's talking. Do a search next time dumbass. This topic was thrashed to death about a week ago.
JV
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berserk
Mar 8, 2004, 4:48 AM
Post #32 of 35
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Registered: May 15, 2003
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I give up!
If I'm a dumbass, so be it as well.
Luckily I live in an area where there still are some general ethics involved (albeit maybe not for ever, I'm afraid).
Happy climbing
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jv
Mar 8, 2004, 5:02 AM
Post #33 of 35
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Registered: Sep 26, 2003
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In reply to: Luckily I live in an area where there still are some general ethics involved (albeit maybe not for ever, I'm afraid).
I wouldn't say that I, or anyone else in the States, live in an area where there are no "general ethics involved." It's just that climbers over here seem less concerned about whether free climbing on a top rope is really free climbing, and more concerned with substantive issues like rap bolting at trad areas, adding bolts to existing climbs, whether guide books should be published, chipping, access, etc.
JV
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dirtineye
Mar 8, 2004, 2:22 PM
Post #34 of 35
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Registered: Mar 29, 2003
Posts: 5590
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Move stupid horse. Move I say. What? you won't budge? Get up off the ground! What a pathetic animal you are! WHAT ARE ALL THOSE FLIES DOING AROUND HERE? GOD IT SMELLS AWFUL!
Giddyup!! Go! TIme to ride! Go horsey go!
Please?
Pretty Please?
Don't worry, horsey, I'll keep on trying til you get up! But you are stubborn as a mule!
Note: No actual dead horses were beaten or otherwise hamred in the making of this post. Any resmblance to horses (or climbers) living or dead is purely coincidental. All rights reserved.
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dangermonkey
Mar 9, 2004, 7:22 AM
Post #35 of 35
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Registered: Jan 15, 2003
Posts: 164
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In reply to: If it's already a TR, why bolt it? Seems wastelful to me. -Jeff
I agree. And, how would this be a FA, if someone else has established chalk all over it?
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