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ell
Mar 12, 2004, 3:56 AM
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If you had a friend who died on a certain route or mountain. Would you ever go back and do that route or mountain again? Does it make a difference if you were there when your friend died or not?
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litleclimberchick
Mar 12, 2004, 4:27 AM
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are you asking for advice, or is this just a general question?
if i had a friend that died on a climb, i suppose i would go back and climb it. death is a part of life, and it is a risk we take every time we climb. besides, i don't think that my friend would want me to be afraid to do a certain climb, they would probably want me to climb it for them.
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drkodos
Mar 12, 2004, 4:30 AM
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In reply to: death is a part of life
I suggest that death is not a part of life, it is the end of it.
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munckee
Mar 12, 2004, 4:31 AM
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In reply to: it is a risk we take every time we climb
If you're risking your life every time you climb, then I think you're doing something wrong. Yes, there is some risk associated with climbing a big mountain or climbing in a remote area, but these risks hardly transfer to EVERY climb. Unless of course you only climb in those sorts of areas.
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lovesclimbing
Mar 12, 2004, 4:35 AM
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Depending on what your friend meant to you or how close you were and your own feelings should guide you. For my self I would attempt it out of honor for that person, but I would be realistic about it, if I was a 5.9 sport climber and my friend was killed on K2 I would probley take a couple years before I bought my ticket to Pakistan. But any way you remember your friend will be best.
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skiclimb
Mar 12, 2004, 4:36 AM
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Have...
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rockprodigy
Mar 12, 2004, 4:40 AM
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I figure I'll go back there some day, when I get psyched to climb in that area again...it's not a weekend trip if you know what I mean.
I bet it will feel strange, though.
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lovesclimbing
Mar 12, 2004, 4:43 AM
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Good luck and have a safe trip.
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ell
Mar 12, 2004, 4:49 AM
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In reply to: are you asking for advice, or is this just a general question?
This is just a general question to discuss.
Personally, at the time I promised myself I'd never climb that particular mountain (I was not there when it happened). I don't know if this is the right decision, and I was just wondering what other people would do?
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scubaboy26
Mar 12, 2004, 4:57 AM
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I'd do it for closure and to do somethin that meant a lot to that person
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innominato
Mar 12, 2004, 5:06 AM
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I think it's an important thing to do, and a meaningful, honest way to remember your friend--when you're ready. Ty Milford wrote a very good Vantage Point in Climbing that deals with this to a certain extent--it ran last year sometime.
His partner fell to his death in front of Ty in the Palisades of California; years later Ty went back to the Palisades to just be there, and feel. His words, though, are much better than mine. I suggest you read the article. Issue 222 or 223, I think.
I've been to two places, one at the base of a wall where an accident claimed a friendly acquaintance, another the summit of a peak--Crestone Needle--that was the last place I saw a friend alive. He committed suicide a few years later. The last time I saw him he was headed north, running the ridge to Crestone Peak, racing a building wall of thunderheads to the west. I've gone back and re-climbed the peak, and run the ridge; being atop the Needle again was tough...but good. I would go back.
A best friend was killed in a motorcycle crash. There was a crag that he, more than anyone, loved, a place where we often climbed together, a serene gneiss crag above a sheep-herding village in the Italian Alps. I hear there will be a plaque there soon with his name on it. It's on the other side of the ocean, but I need to go visit. Freddy was in his 50s, had the crag totally dialed, and could fire 5.13 at will. He was the person around which the local climbing scene revolved--every area has one. We all miss him.
All of this is, I guess, just a long-winded way of saying, Yes, do visit these places. It will help you heal.
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atg200
Mar 12, 2004, 5:11 AM
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it really depends on the climb and the circumstances. when a friend of mine was killed in boulder canyon, i went and climbed at that crag pretty soon and it was definitely wierd. i ended up leading one pitch and then retreated to the bar because i was not having fun.
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oudinardin
Mar 12, 2004, 7:16 AM
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Ditto...
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fontyyy
Mar 12, 2004, 11:41 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: it is a risk we take every time we climb If you're risking your life every time you climb, then I think you're doing something wrong. Yes, there is some risk associated with climbing a big mountain or climbing in a remote area, but these risks hardly transfer to EVERY climb. Unless of course you only climb in those sorts of areas.
And yes I would go back and do the climb again. Dunno why, I'd just want to.
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deleted
Deleted
Mar 12, 2004, 12:46 PM
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sounds like it would be a good way of mourning...
that said, would you really gain anything after it's over...I'd feel bad for succeeding on something that took my friend's life. it's like a slap in the face.
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climbjs
Mar 12, 2004, 1:43 PM
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In reply to: I think it's an important thing to do, and a meaningful, honest way to remember your friend--when you're ready. Ty Milford wrote a very good Vantage Point in Climbing that deals with this to a certain extent--it ran last year sometime. His partner fell to his death in front of Ty in the Palisades of California; years later Ty went back to the Palisades to just be there, and feel. His words, though, are much better than mine. I suggest you read the article. Issue 222 or 223, I think. I've been to two places, one at the base of a wall where an accident claimed a friendly acquaintance, another the summit of a peak--Crestone Needle--that was the last place I saw a friend alive. He committed suicide a few years later. The last time I saw him he was headed north, running the ridge to Crestone Peak, racing a building wall of thunderheads to the west. I've gone back and re-climbed the peak, and run the ridge; being atop the Needle again was tough...but good. I would go back. A best friend was killed in a motorcycle crash. There was a crag that he, more than anyone, loved, a place where we often climbed together, a serene gneiss crag above a sheep-herding village in the Italian Alps. I hear there will be a plaque there soon with his name on it. It's on the other side of the ocean, but I need to go visit. Freddy was in his 50s, had the crag totally dialed, and could fire 5.13 at will. He was the person around which the local climbing scene revolved--every area has one. We all miss him. All of this is, I guess, just a long-winded way of saying, Yes, do visit these places. It will help you heal.
Nice post. I'd have to say that you summed up my feelings, as well.
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j_ung
Mar 12, 2004, 3:05 PM
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In reply to: it really depends on the climb and the circumstances.
I agree. If a friend died on an route known to be "unsafe," then probably not. Also, I don't tend to be a very romantic person, in the sentimental sense of the word. I try to look at most things pragmatically, so the "I want to honor him by climbing what he died on," train of thought probably wouldn't occur to me.
If, however, by chance, I ended up at the bottom of that climb with the possibility of climbing it... well, I really don't know. I'd have to play it by ear.
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atg200
Mar 12, 2004, 4:09 PM
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In reply to: Hmmmm, rope snaping, gear failing (either crappy bolts or trad gear popping out), harness giving way, rock falls, highball (or not so highball) boulder problems that would kill you if you fell badly etc. It's never 100% safe. I'd go along with the EVERY climb could kill you theory.
remind me never to climb with you.
rope snapping? maybe if you make a habit of jugging over sharp edges, but this is pretty safely avoided.
harness giving way? what? what kind of harness do you use?
gear failing? ever heard of redundancy? if you die because of this, you are either a darwin award candidate or on a very scary route that is not an everyday climbing occurence.
rock falls? rock fall that can kill you just ain't that common and you'll know it when you are encountering it. same with deadly highballs.
if the drive out isn't more threatening than your climb on an average day of cragging, you are a dangerous fool.
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climbersoze
Mar 12, 2004, 8:28 PM
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Yes.
Never had a friend die climbing, but I have had friends die on motorcycles, in cars, and from drinking... all things that were a direct results of their actions... and I still want to get back on a motorcycle (havent in a while - not related to the fact that friends died), still drive to work everyday, and unfortunately, I still over indulge in alcohol.
If it was my best friend, it would be hard to be in the place where he died, but I would still go.
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ctclimbz
Mar 12, 2004, 8:47 PM
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My current girlfriend had her boyfriend from college die, falling off of Mt. Winchell in the palisade range while soloing it. On our month long road trip last year, she expressed interest in getting out there and summiting it in his honor. I never met the guy, and had only been dating my gf a short while at the time. I suggested that the summit was perhaps something she should do personally, and that it might mean more to her to do it on her own. However, she was insistent, and we hiked out to temple crag, spent the night at fourth lake, and trudged out to Mt. Winchell the following day. It started out nice, but got stormy quickly, and the scree approach sucked. The actual climbing was mostly fourth class, with some very easy fifth class soloing at the top. Wasn't difficult, but necessitated caution and precision. To be honest, I wanted off of the peak, as you could see the Thunderstorm coming in. My girlfriend was super determined though, and pressed on, even though I could see the fear in her eyes.
At the top, she pasted a photo of the guy into the summit register, wrote a brief note, took some photos, and we bailed off. Got stuck under a rock for two hours during a hail/lightning storm at the base, epic getting back to camp, etc. But, seeing the determination in her face, and watching her achieve something in memory of someone she cared about impressed the hell out of me. More so still that she wanted me there for the experience and backup. While I have no personal tragedy similar to this, just going along for the ride convinced me of the value of the experience. I would say that summiting the peak where the tragedy happened could be an important piece to your personal perspective on the incident.
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dredsovrn
Mar 12, 2004, 9:11 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: death is a part of life I suggest that death is not a part of life, it is the end of it.
Excellent point.
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mandrake
Mar 12, 2004, 10:18 PM
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I've been in this situation, and have not gone back to do the route. I've done the route before, and it's close to my lead limit and the pro is actually a bit dangerous over a truly awful landing.
I would hesitate to get on a route like that for any reason other than that I want to climb it. Otherwise, I put pressure on myself that wouldn't otherwise be there. To expand, though I don't often back down on routes, I don't want the added pressure of this being the route my friend died on to push me, especially when I suspect I'll be pretty shaky thinking about my friend's death the whole time I'm leading.
There are lots of other routes out there, I'll do them instead.
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ginerbiner
Mar 13, 2004, 12:45 AM
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Climbing is a celebration of life. Use your head, trust your spirit, and rest assured that your friend will be smiling from where ever, celebrating you right back. Grieving is a process. Life is a journey. Climbing is a good metaphor for both. Be at peace then, and climb on. Sorry about your friend.
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ferret
Mar 13, 2004, 1:45 AM
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to be honest i'd jump on that thing as soon as i was able/ready to, it would be my own little memorial to my friend, kind of a completing things for him/her
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ferret
Mar 13, 2004, 1:59 AM
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thought i'd put as an after thought that i'm not exactly the brightest in that regard so you might just want to completely disregard the words coming out of my mouth, lol, well fingers that is:P, lol
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jaylaka
Mar 13, 2004, 2:17 AM
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ideally, i'd complete the climb/route in my friend's memory. i think that would help bring closure as well as a finality to my friend's death.
that said, i would not be willing to risk my own life in doing so.
jen
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yay_chris
Mar 13, 2004, 3:01 AM
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Put it this way: if you'd died on a climb, would you want your friend to climb it in your memory?
I think that would be a nice tribute.
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moeman
Mar 13, 2004, 4:03 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: it is a risk we take every time we climb If you're risking your life every time you climb, then I think you're doing something wrong. Yes, there is some risk associated with climbing a big mountain or climbing in a remote area, but these risks hardly transfer to EVERY climb. Unless of course you only climb in those sorts of areas.
You risk your life every morning when you get out of bed. You could die any day in a car accident. You could die within the next hour from a sudden, unexpected stroke. Death IS a part of life- you face it, deal with it, and are reminded of it every day. You see loved ones die, and you know that some day, be it tomorrow or in 50 years, you will die too. All the more incentive to REALLY live. I say climb the route as a last salute to your buddy, but only is the route isn't excessively dangerous- no need to add another body to the death count.
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charlierock
Mar 13, 2004, 4:22 AM
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I think if I ever get the chance to go back and do the climb that took my friends life i will do it. Finish it for him.
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andyw
Mar 13, 2004, 5:22 AM
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yal i think we are missing something, his friend died on this climb, its not about going back for the thrill or to try it.
If you want to go back to the climb go back and climb it, if you aren't sure then respect that nature is a powerful thing to be messing with. if your friend died on it and you want to respect him then just dont go
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nthusiastj
Mar 13, 2004, 5:27 AM
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I would say yes. I would see it as unfinished business and damn good Karma.
J
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skiclimb
Mar 13, 2004, 5:37 AM
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When I went back it was alone...not to conquer anything .. just to say good by and reflect on times spent with a good friend..to contemplate life and loss and feel fully to appreciate the value of a friends life... by extension the value of any one life.. it was both a beautiful and terible experience but for me an important one.
Unless such a route is foolish for you then I highly recomend doing so... you will face an important experience don't avoid it.
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timstich
Mar 13, 2004, 5:45 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: death is a part of life I suggest that death is not a part of life, it is the end of it.
When people say this, I think they mean that dealing with the issue of our own mortality and that of others is a part of life, which is hard not to acknowledge.
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dirtineye
Mar 13, 2004, 9:15 AM
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I have a friend who is fond of saying, " That a route has claimed lives adds charater and mystique to the route.", but I am not sure I would want that much character and mystique if any of the lives claimed were friends of mine.
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daisuke
Mar 13, 2004, 1:43 PM
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I guess it all depends.
Take for example that guy who got caught on a mountain and had to have his legs amputated, and then started climbing mountains, he eventually froze to death. Life sends you little signs, and you have to learn to interpret them if only for the few times it actually means something
if a friend died on K2... or a similarly harrying route or mountain... I wouldn't go up it, going up those routes is a calculated death wish. but if they were to die because of some freak mistake or accident on a well proven route I'd also done... then I might
D
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roc_klimber
Mar 15, 2004, 3:35 AM
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HELL YEAH!!!
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harrisha
Mar 15, 2004, 3:42 AM
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I'd do it as a way of paying homage to my friend but let your feelings guide you. I don't have this experience but a friend of mines cousin was killed a couple of years ago I think in the wind rivers. That was tough on his whole family his mom still hasn't let his gear go-probably never will. What ever you do don't get killed in the process if you do it out of respect for your friend summiting/topping out is great but he/she would like it better for you to live.
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crazygirl
Mar 15, 2004, 4:44 AM
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I wouldn't.
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jackiechanning
Mar 23, 2004, 6:34 PM
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i would say DEFINATELY DO IT!!!!!! you gotta man
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uwmeghan
Mar 24, 2004, 5:36 PM
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I've only been climbing a short time, but I've seen how freaked out one of my good friends was when she was at the bottom of a climb where her friend got hurt, he went out on a stretcher as I undestand it, but ended up being ok. What we did was I lead the climb and she seconded it, which made her feel a little more secure but allowed her to do the climb. For us though, she was terrified the whole time I did the climb too. Fear is a powerful thing, there are lots of climbs in the world, so don't do something you aren't comfortable with. With that said, death instigates a whole different level of fear. Climbing the route isn't the only way to remember a person, do what feels right.
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craig_climber
Mar 29, 2004, 2:05 AM
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This is an interesting question. If I were capable of climbing it, I would do it out of respect for my friend. I would want to see what he would have seen had he completed it. Once I reached the top, I would probably place something small there as a sort of memorial.
I just hope I never have to be in this situation. :(
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