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crazywacky
Apr 7, 2004, 9:54 PM
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All I could think of while reading that story is how close I've been to making the same mistakes. And how much it's like a nightmare when I'm getting ready to rap off a climb to think about what could happen.
I'm so glad you're OK.
And I'm so glad Tim and the other guys on the route were there for you.
Be safe, and thanks for sharing your story.
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timpanogos
Apr 7, 2004, 9:58 PM
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In reply to: but 90# would be more accurate for my body weight.
Damn girl, let all these hardmen keep taking you climbing,
I'm gonna start inviting you to dinner!
Eat something there kiddo
Chad
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foograbbinstone
Apr 7, 2004, 9:58 PM
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Amber,
I was speechless when I finished reading your TR and alot of the following posts!!! Literally didn't even know how to reply..
I'm glad your still with us,and that you came out of this without any serious injuries. You must de doubley blessed, for this was surely a miracle!!
foo
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robmcc
Apr 7, 2004, 10:09 PM
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Wow. That's just not fair. I think weighing 90 pounds should count as aid.
The whole diet factor bit is very interesting to me. I eat very little on a climbing day and have no problems keeping up energy, alertness, etc. 'Course, I weigh more than 2 Ambers, so I guess I have a bit of reserve to keep me goin'. ;)
Rob
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curt
Apr 7, 2004, 10:23 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: also consider submitting it to the Alpinist....this story is well worth publishing. we can all learn something from this. we're very glad you're still with us! Yes I learned that I wanna run out and try AID climbing........ NOT! Maybe who I shouldn't ever climb with. That our desicions can be very costly and even fatal. Thankfully yours were not...........this time.
I'll climb with Amber or Tim anytime. My guess is that they are about the safest people on the planet when they go climbing these days.
Curt
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robmcc
Apr 7, 2004, 10:27 PM
Post #133 of 457
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In reply to: I'll climb with Amber or Tim anytime.
I'll second that. Or, by this point, hundred-and-second it. This was, by the sound of it, an example of competent and safe people who nevertheless had an accident. It happens. I'd rather climb with people who understand that and are appropriately careful than those with a holier or safer-than-thou attitude.
People who think they aren't capable of that kind of mistake are simply wrong.
Rob
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drkodos
Apr 7, 2004, 11:18 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I'll climb with Amber or Tim anytime. I'll second that. Or, by this point, hundred-and-second it. This was, by the sound of it, an example of competent and safe people who nevertheless had an accident. It happens. I'd rather climb with people who understand that and are appropriately careful than those with a holier or safer-than-thou attitude. People who think they aren't capable of that kind of mistake are simply wrong. Rob
Wow.
Quite the opposite, dude.
By definition, competent and safe people do not make these mistakes. Having made them removes one from these categories in life.
Past performance is the best indication of future performace in stressful situations, my man.
The decision to do the climb, is itself, proof that these are not competent people, with regards to this particular activity.
That is not a statement made about the people themselves or their overall character, but about their ability to make climbing decisions.
The is actual very little to learn in this thread that has not been beaten to death for the past fifty years. There were no mitigating circumstances. All there that remains is that people DID NOT RESPECT the severity of what they were attempting AND they were not good enough to get away with it.
The same cavalier attitude permeates 70 perecnt of the users on this site. All you n00bs and gumbs better take notice. Put down the hot dogs and step away from the fire, this ain't a feckin weenie roast.
I've climbed with many from this site. Most of you are on borrowed time, and have only successfully avoided accidents similar to this due to the same bizarre and unfathomable luck that people believe happened in this case.
All the other lessons being pointed out are patronizingly idiotic.
DO NOT mikstake my hostility at the rest of you for insensitivty towards the perps. I am relieved they are safe and somehat sound.
But you people are going way overboard in your overflowing gratuities and in your suggestion that there is something worthy of deeper inspection that will eventually lead to some epiphany or revelation that will save anyone in the future.
Want to be safe?
Stay the feck on the ground.
I have been bashing the hammer regarding n00bs since i'ce come to this site: Climbing is not safe. Stop pretending that it is or can be. People die. You could. I could. If you cannot accept this reality, than get into another "extreme" sport. But stop with this mamby-pamby BS pretention that something can be learned here other than don't rap off the end of ropes.
The itoldyouso drkodos
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tim
Apr 7, 2004, 11:30 PM
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Kodos:
(edited to get to the point)
I guess what I'm wondering is, how do you figure I could have influenced my partner's rappel setup once she'd jumped on it? Once Amber let go, it was out of my control. She did something really crazy, and lived, which was improbable. An alternative -- don't let partners who haven't proven themselves get out on lead -- is reasonable, I guess, if you figure your 'job' on a climb is to act as a free guide, and assume all liability for your partner's decisions. I don't agree with that. I assume one thing -- I assume that my partner can take responsibility for their own actions.
* So, kids, don't let go of your rappel ropes! Such probing insight...
Like most accident reports, this one is fairly light on the 'lessons'. DFU when you're rappelling -- it's killed better climbers than you or I.
If climbing was safe it wouldn't be real interesting. Your observation is no less trite than any of the others -- plenty of competent climbers (eg. Ammon) have had similar epics. The idea that, if someone can't get up and down a route on their first, second, or any other try, they shouldn't attempt it -- realistically, do you believe this?
You seem to be presenting a choice between guaranteed outcomes (eg. on single-pitch sporty routes around Vegas) and certain death (Devil's Thumb). The fact of the matter is that most interesting climbs are neither. I don't have any real issues with my performance (speed and efficiency-wise) on this outing other than relinquishing the lead. But at the same time, I'm not going to try and punch out the rest of the climb with a badly shaken partner just to 'prove my competence' to some Internet Superhero. Your choice of wording seems to indicate that the latter is what you'd respect more, which is a bit disturbing.
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vincent
Apr 7, 2004, 11:58 PM
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YEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSS KODOS !!!!!!
thanks for finally putting a cork in this jizzfest. if i read , "Thanks for your courage in sharing your TR" one more time i think i'll puke all over my mouse. how much courage does it take to get lucky???
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calamity_chk
Apr 8, 2004, 12:09 AM
Post #139 of 457
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In reply to: And out come the trolls. Amber, didn't I mention that most people are not going to 'learn' anything from this? I hope you have a thick skin, because Vincent is an excellent representative of the majority of people. Vincent: it's not the fall that's extraordinary, you dumbass. It's the odd happenstance that she lived. It's never news unless someone gets f--- up. "If it bleeds, it leads!"
yes, you did tell me that most wouldnt learn from it. perhaps, one of these days, i'll give up on humanity as well - god knows that i've been through enough grief to stop giving a damn.
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ipsofacto
Apr 8, 2004, 12:17 AM
Post #140 of 457
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In reply to: YEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSS KODOS !!!!!!
thanks for finally putting a cork in this jizzfest. if i read , "Thanks for your courage in sharing your TR" one more time i think i'll puke all over my mouse. how much courage does it take to get lucky???
My God, if you were standing before me I'd knock you cross-eyed you miserable, dink-nibling, cum-eating[/u], turd.
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ipsofacto
Apr 8, 2004, 12:19 AM
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In reply to: YEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSS KODOS !!!!!!
thanks for finally putting a cork in this jizzfest. if i read , "Thanks for your courage in sharing your TR" one more time i think i'll puke all over my mouse. how much courage does it take to get lucky???
God help you, Vincent, if we ever have the misfortune of bumping in to one another...
Editied for violence and coarse language.
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frantik
Apr 8, 2004, 12:25 AM
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To ED,
Read my post better! I said I don't want to aid climb and my reasons are my own......yes this post is one of them.
And maybe who I shouldn't climb with not anyone I WOULDN'T
My last statement is true and I was implying nothing by it. And I did use the word OURS not thiers or hers.
I truly hope no one here makes any fatal descions.
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pk
Apr 8, 2004, 12:27 AM
Post #143 of 457
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In reply to: YEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSS KODOS !!!!!!
thanks for finally putting a cork in this jizzfest. if i read , "Thanks for your courage in sharing your TR" one more time i think i'll puke all over my mouse. how much courage does it take to get lucky???
Just like your other 40 posts, congrats I guess at least on your consistancy of worthless drivel spewing out of your mouth.
Kodos you were also very inapropriate! I would hope in the unlucky incident you had the balls to post something like this on a unfortunate incident of your own that there wouldn't be a jackass out there like yourself to revel in their own self accomplishments and feel they need to make it known that they themselves are god and what they say supercedes all else.
Amber and tim and wish you guys the best, and thank you for all your posts. There are some people that will take alot from this post. One that i did is to keep yourself in check, and not get in over your head. I've been playing around lately with solo aid and will definately double / tripple check and takes my progressions a bit more slowly.
P.K.
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ipsofacto
Apr 8, 2004, 12:36 AM
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23456789
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timstich
Apr 8, 2004, 12:45 AM
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Interesting thread. I got off a lot easier on rec.climbing when I posted my accident report years ago. This sh*t comes with the confession. No avoiding it. And I'll tell you, no amount of abuse from others can equal the abuse you heap on yourself for what you did.
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angry
Apr 8, 2004, 12:58 AM
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Amber, 9 pages before the trolls - not bad. I can't make it more than 2 8)
Dumb luck, fall factors, physics, god, whatever - I don't care, I'm glad you're alive, whatever the reason.
I'm glad you figured out that I am me :D
The snows melting, maybe we won't have to drag the kiddo through the snow next time we hit the rocks. Next time I head to Vedauwoo, you're coming with me, right?
Nothing like Jay, but as you know, I've got a class 1 nutrition liscense. I'd be glad to share. I'm another skinny person who bonks catastrophically, so I have some insight.
As an unemotional guy, I teared up when I read the part about your son. Thanks for sharing.
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the_antoon
Apr 8, 2004, 1:50 AM
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wow...thank god you made it.
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curt
Apr 8, 2004, 2:06 AM
Post #149 of 457
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: I'll climb with Amber or Tim anytime. I'll second that. Or, by this point, hundred-and-second it. This was, by the sound of it, an example of competent and safe people who nevertheless had an accident. It happens. I'd rather climb with people who understand that and are appropriately careful than those with a holier or safer-than-thou attitude. People who think they aren't capable of that kind of mistake are simply wrong. Rob Wow. Quite the opposite, dude. By definition, competent and safe people do not make these mistakes. Having made them removes one from these categories in life. Past performance is the best indication of future performace in stressful situations, my man. The decision to do the climb, is itself, proof that these are not competent people, with regards to this particular activity. That is not a statement made about the people themselves or their overall character, but about their ability to make climbing decisions.
Really, kodos? I climbed quite a bit with Kevin Bein in the Needles of the Black Hills, in the Gunks, in Yosemite and in Joshua Tree and always thought he was one of the safest climbers I knew. Too bad that after 25 years of climbing at a very high standard--he died in a climbing accident. I think you know as well as I do that this could happen to anyone, under the wrong circumstances.
Curt
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Re: ambition & ego: my 160' fall in zion
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