but turning one of the U.S.'s premier bouldering areas into a mining pit is OK. Sounds like Union Carbide could use a man like him in Bishop...

that there is absolutely nothing we climbers can do

'queen creek' and 'premier bouldering' in the same sentence? WTF? have you ever climbed there? i like queen creek and all, but talk about a misnomer...

anyway, back on topic.

i had a conversation w/ a friend about this whole sherman thing while bouldering in the mcdowells this morning.

queen creek is pretty much gone:

1. there is no legal precedence or argument against the mining
2. resolution has the mineral rights
3. huge tax revenues will be generated
4. lots of business, jobs, and $$$ for the region (which is depressed)
5. finally, lets face it, climbers are not some powerful lobby

now, that's not to say the fight should be given up, but i think sherman's taking a realistic approach to the issue. might as well get something out of this in the way of a land swap for some other climbing. it's better than nothing.

....do your part to cut down on copper use! quit using electricity, electronics, computers, climbing gear, etc. if there isn't a market for copper, the mine won't open.

Chipper and all the other Sherman bashers- listen up.

I have known John for over 20 years. I know him better than anybody posting on this thread. I have talked with and helped him extensively on this project. He genuinely believes that this is a chance to get something for climbers from a mine that is going to happen no matter what climbers do. He is working very hard to scour the hills to find something worth developing not some choss heap. He lived and climbed in Tucson and Flagstaff but does not owe us anything. He is not interested in developing some new area in AZ personally. He makes enough money with his day job that he doesn't need to work for RCC. He hopes to find some great stuff and turn it over to you and go play golf somewhere.

One of the things I've always admired about John is that he does what he believes is in the best interest of climbing (not himself) even when it pisses some people off (and makes his life harder). His climbing style and opinions are uncompromising. His life is devoted to climbing. He once told me that climbing saved his life and he believes he has a debt to give back to the sport. You know all those books he wrote? He isn't getting rich off them. I know he does not make enough from all of them to pay his health insurance. He wrote thenm for the love of the sport and lifestyle of climbing. To call John Sherman a sell out or worse as some of you have done is to prove you do not know the man and are not trying to solve the problem just venting on somebody who is.


There will be no replcement for Oak Flat that will be exactly the same. And even if there was a climbing area that was a mirror image of Oak Flat some of you would still cry foul. The hope here is to mitigate the loss of one resource by opening up another similar area (or possibly more than one) that was not available or developed. There are many things going on here and many decisions to be made.

Going to the table with the mining company with a proactive attitude and a plan will get you something. They have lots of money and motivation to make this thing work for them. RCC even offered to sponsor the bouldering contest for at least 5 more years while new areas are being developed. I believe their offer was turned down even while Jim W. is always threatening to cancel it for lack of sponsors.

The mining company doesn't have a clue about rock climbing so they hired the best guy they could to tell them what they need. John's qualifications are unquestionable. He is the only human to have climbed in all 50 states. He has done more boulder problems and first ascents than anybody and has probably climbed in more good and bad areas than anybody. His perspective on what makes a good climbing/bouldering area is unparalleled and his uncompromising nature is working for you. RCC went out of their way to find him for these reasons. By the way, he was recommended to them by Royal Robbins.

I started climbing in the Phoenix area in 1976. I've seen areas come and go. If the local climbers would unite and help John find good areas and put together a proposal you might be surprised how much you can get. You may have the first recreation area in the state (country?) designed and built with climbing in mind. You might end up with the best sport climbing crag in the state (I've seen it) You might end up with climbing areas on both the east side and west side of the valley. You might end up with all kinds of things if you go to John and say this is what we want in return for losing some bouldering. Sure access to SOME of the Queen Creek areas will be lost but much of it will be preserved. In addition you might find yourself looking at some great new area(s). To fight to save Oak Flat without compromise might just come back to bite you because you will either get nothing or have no say in what you do get. There are choices out there and they will be made with your input or without it. My biggest fear is that local climbers will sabotage a great deal and screw everybody.

John knew going into this that he would become the enemy in some peoples eyes but he believes this is a chance to get something for everybody from a wealthy multinational mining company. He's talked with Jim W. and Curt and many other locals. He would rather have had one of them take the job. It was offered to Jim. He will make enough money off this to buy some new golf clubs and play a few rounds at the Biltmore. During all of his exploration so far he's not even done any climbing. At this moment he's nursing an injured back sustained by exploring another wild area.

Believe me he's not being bought off, he's giving back. You'd be wise to help him out or at least tell him what you want in return. RCC is not trying to divide and conquer as some suggest. They asked Jim W. and others for input and were rebuffed. So, who is the bad guy? At least Sherman is trying to get you something. If the climbing community would unite and say, "This is what we want." You have a much better chance at getting it than b---- about it here.

Get on the bus or watch the video later.


P.S. I know somebody will flame me for not posting my name but with some of you threatening to shoot Sherman why would I.

My intention for posting here is to defend John from attacks made against him personally by people who either don't know him or at least haven't talked to him about this project. Curt excepted. And to hopefully get some of you to give constructive input. I'm not here to defend RCC or say that you should be happy about losing some climbing. I think losing any public land is sad but in this case we might get something back at least.

Yes Curt I know John better than you do. And if you think I am his "yes man" you should have seen the 2 hour argument we got into just two days ago!

I don't see what the big deal is. It's not even that great of a climbing area and there are tons more near it as well as scattered around AZ. I think the big deal with it isn't about climbing at all. QCC is the local climber's hide out where they have big parties and the once-a-year bouldering comp. So I think it's about booze and money, not climbing. Not that I disagree (the PBB is certainly a blast) but, of course, those arguments won't win over any State Reps. I say the locals would be spending their time more efficiently if they were looking for a new (and better) climbing area then sitting around trying to get that choss pile back.

Stephen

I don't see what the big deal is. It's not even that great of a climbing area and there are tons more near it as well as scattered around AZ. I think the big deal with it isn't about climbing at all. QCC is the local climber's hide out where they have big parties and the once-a-year bouldering comp. So I think it's about booze and money, not climbing. Not that I disagree (the PBB is certainly a blast) but, of course, those arguments won't win over any State Reps. I say the locals would be spending their time more efficiently if they were looking for a new (and better) climbing area then sitting around trying to get that choss pile back.

Stephen

Are you as stupid as you sound?

I have known John for over 20 years

You know Sherman better than I do? I doubt it.

read his profile, his "local crag" is about 150 miles from where he lives. :lol:

ha! pffffft! get real!! you guys are posuers. i know sherman better than both of you two guys put together. i'm the king of the "i know sherman" club. me. bvb.

you two johnny-cum-latelys can sukit.

That's odd, he doesn't seem to know you. Hahahaha.

Curt