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bigjonnyc
Jul 21, 2005, 4:06 PM
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So obviously, on most indoor routes past the 5.10 range, there is generally one way that each move is meant to be done. At my gym there are 'natural' holds all over the place. While climbing a 5.11 the other day I couldn't get a move, and thus improvised on the normal way to do it by reaching around an arete to a nasty crimpy natural and skipping two holds completely. My girlfriend (belaying) started making fun of me telling me I cheated. So my question is, when climbing indoors, should one try and struggle through the 'correct' moves, or follow any way they can to ge up the route. On this specific route, the description clearly states that the naturals are definitely in.
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neuroshock
Jul 21, 2005, 4:11 PM
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IMO, if you're climbing for the send, do it any way that you can. if you're on the route for training purposes, try to do it the way it was intended. it may be harder to climb the "right" way because that route/problem targets your weaknesses...all the more reason to do it.
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caughtinside
Jul 21, 2005, 4:17 PM
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In reply to: So obviously, on most indoor routes past the 5.10 range, there is generally one way that each move is meant to be done.
Disagree.
I climbed with a much shorter partner for a while at the gym, and was always amazed at how very differently she did nearly every move.
I see your point though. My take is that climbing is also about creativity and problem solving, so I do what I can to get up the route.
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itstoearly
Jul 24, 2005, 10:14 PM
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I think it's more accurate to say that each person usually only has 1 way to do most difficult routes. But the solution will vary from person to person, depending on height.
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pylonhead
Jul 24, 2005, 11:37 PM
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What? 6 posts and nobody has jumped all over his ass for worrying about style in a climbing gym?
Where is the RC.com that I know and, er, love? Everyone must be out climbing...
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squierbypetzl
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Jul 25, 2005, 12:27 AM
Post #7 of 27
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Umm, we avoid grading climbs and boulder problems at the the gym I go to... a dude suggested it once and I said "Man, rating routes on plastic? Thatīs just sad...". But thatīs just us.
Personally, Iīm not really fond of rating routes at all. I mean, itīs great if I want to find out in advance if Iīm going to get owned by 5.12d thatīs really close to a 5.8 and can get confused... and of course for aid climbing and trad Iīd be much obliged if someone hauled me away from a mislabeled E7...
If the route has different color holds, you could always make as if -x- color of holds wasnīt there, just to mix it up a bit. Or only climb to right of the anchor, or start on another route and traverse to the 1st at the hard part (not rock, not crux).
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organic
Jul 25, 2005, 12:52 AM
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In reply to: What? 6 posts and nobody has jumped all over his ass for worrying about style in a climbing gym? Where is the RC.com that I know and, er, love? Everyone must be out climbing...
Sorry I was just about about to! This has to be one of the lamest posts ever! Is it cheating? WTF is that? n00b, first off why do you climb? To "be creative"? If so good god, I personally climb for adventure and building myself mentally and physically. I hate climbing in gyms except to train and I definitely don't climb in gyms so I can spray about some 5.11 I could barely do on top rope!
http://www.guitarwar.com/teams/1000151.gif
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climbsomething
Jul 25, 2005, 1:50 AM
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You're already climbing "creatively" if you're in a gym, on plastic holds not created or set by nature. So who cares? There's no place for "gym ethics."
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itstoearly
Jul 25, 2005, 3:17 AM
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It's as if some people just sit online and wait for other people to post so they can swing their e-penises around and put other people down with stupid over-used pics so that they don't feel so badly about their lack of a real world social life.
And I bet the people who act like assholes online are too timid to act the same way in real life, because they know people will beat the shit out of them if they do.
My apologies to the more civil people who have read this, I hope I have not offended the nicer crowd of people. But I for one am fed up with posts that do not help anyone at all and only add to the bandwidth that I have to download to get to the helpful posts.
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elissa01
Jul 25, 2005, 3:53 AM
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all that person was doing was asking a question, why do you people have to rip into people like that? i once asked a simple question that i didn't know and got ripped into about it.. someone explain to me why people do that. jeepers, what if someone was rippin into you about something that pretty much everyone knew but you? i just don't get it..
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organic
Jul 25, 2005, 2:05 PM
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In reply to: all that person was doing was asking a question, why do you people have to rip into people like that? i once asked a simple question that i didn't know and got ripped into about it.. someone explain to me why people do that. jeepers, what if someone was rippin into you about something that pretty much everyone knew but you? i just don't get it..
First this is the internet, everything you say can and will be used against you. People do rip into me on this website, it is what we do when we are bored. Second the question orignially asked has no answer, the guy was either bored when he posted it or had some other motive. I mean seriously do people actually sit around and hope that the crimp on a gym route was "on" so they can say they sent a 5.11? If so this is a sad sad world. If people ask serious questions they will most likely get an answer back but I think this question was far from serious. Also there is google, a climbing dictionary and many books in which you can answer the questions you need. Answers not in there are; stupid questions, ethical questions, &c. Thank you and have a nice day.
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bigjonnyc
Jul 25, 2005, 3:03 PM
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First off, I would like to apologize. I should probably have worked to make my originial post much more defensive, so not to allow as many angles for any regular RC.com elitists to try and use to belittle me and make themselves feel superior. That was my fault. However, the original post was not one of indoor ethics, or a question of whether or not I should be allowed to spray about my TR 5.11 climb with at least 20 hangs to rest or work moves in my head. I climb in the gym to train, work out, and keep my technique sharp when I can't get outdoors. The question was merely see other people's opinions as to whether they find it more beneficial to try to use all of the holds and do moves as the route setter most likely had in mind, or to use whatever they can to try and make it to the top. Yes, this thread was started out of boredom while sitting at my desk, here at work. So thanks to all of you who posted something relevant to the topic of the thread, and to organic, please save it for when I decide to start a thread titled: "Who thinks I'm a stupid n00b who should crawl in a hole and die."
-Jonny
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itstoearly
Jul 26, 2005, 12:28 AM
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To answer your question, I think it is always good to solve a route in ways not intended. It shows strong creative thinking.
Organic-
Seriously, no one other then you likes it when you flame people. If you are bored and need something to do, get some friends in real life. You aren't funny, and you aren't appreciated; I hope you know that.
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boulderer420
Jul 28, 2005, 4:49 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: all that person was doing was asking a question, why do you people have to rip into people like that? i once asked a simple question that i didn't know and got ripped into about it.. someone explain to me why people do that. jeepers, what if someone was rippin into you about something that pretty much everyone knew but you? i just don't get it.. First this is the internet, everything you say can and will be used against you. People do rip into me on this website, it is what we do when we are bored. Second the question orignially asked has no answer, the guy was either bored when he posted it or had some other motive. I mean seriously do people actually sit around and hope that the crimp on a gym route was "on" so they can say they sent a 5.11? If so this is a sad sad world. If people ask serious questions they will most likely get an answer back but I think this question was far from serious. Also there is google, a climbing dictionary and many books in which you can answer the questions you need. Answers not in there are; stupid questions, ethical questions, &c. Thank you and have a nice day.
And that means that you have to be a rude course dick about it? You could have said all that in a fashion that the original poster would have thanked you for, yet you felt that you needed to bring someone down. I personally think that you totally just made yourself sound like a total ass, and I personally hope that you realize how unneccesarily negative you are and actually reconsider the wy you respond to people here. Just becuase your on the intarweb does not mean you need to be a Johnny Badass.
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organic
Jul 28, 2005, 4:58 PM
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Holy Freaking Macrole! This is the internet people if you don't like it don't read it and no, sorry, I will not change my actions just to appease a few of you. If someone asked me the same question in real life I would probably have replied the exact same way (except without the picture, I should probably keep one of those in my wallet)!
Finally remember gym routes are made so their hardest move is what the route is graded by, by skipping the hardest move you are in fact not doing the route, rock climbing is not a sport you can cheat at! Outside you have many more choices and so can be more "creative" but the route is still graded by its hardest move, skip the move and are you really doing the route?
Ya'll need to get out of the gym seems to make ya'll crazy!!!
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boulderer420
Jul 28, 2005, 5:10 PM
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I feel sorry for you bro. And if you don't like it, don't read it. BTW, I agree with what your saying, just not how its said.
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bigjonnyc
Jul 28, 2005, 5:41 PM
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I understand your arguments organic, and yes, you have the right to reply with any comments or views that you like. You are, however, still missing the point of the original post, even after I gave further clarification. You seem to think the basis of this thread is about pushing grades for 'spray rights' and/or the ethical issues. I have since pulled the move as it was meant to be done and still cannot do the route clean. I my opinion, this isn't the hardest move on the route. Just as you do, I climb in the gym for training. The question is, is it more beneficial, training-wise, to get up the route by any means within the bounds of the route description, or by the route setter's planned ways to do each move.
As you stated, there is no cheating in rock climbing. If, while climbing in the gym, you are able to make it up a route using any of, and only, the features and holds that are marked 'in', then I elect that you have indeed done the route. I was earlier proven wrong that in any given route there is only one way to do a move/move through a section, so by choosing to use a natural that was 'in' over the bolted hand holds, then I did, based on the grounds of my previous sentence, do that move of the route.
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sevrdhed
Jul 28, 2005, 6:05 PM
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This thread should be retitled "How threads get derailed: A case study".
Steve
P.S. You guys all just got aced by Organic. Diss.
P.P.S. OP, you should dump your girlfriend for calling you a cheater. Either that or prove her right by cheating on her.
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stzzo
Jul 28, 2005, 6:18 PM
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In reply to: Holy Freaking Macrole! This is the internet people if you don't like it don't read it and no, sorry, I will not change my actions just to appease a few of you. If someone asked me the same question in real life I would probably have replied the exact same way (except without the picture, I should probably keep one of those in my wallet)!
So you're a dick in real life, too? Well, that's better than just being a dick on the web, anyway...
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stzzo
Jul 28, 2005, 6:37 PM
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In reply to: You guys all just got aced by Organic.
In the game of "Who is the bigger asshole?", yes, Organic has won this round. Not like I care. I don't play that game.
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dingus
Jul 28, 2005, 7:01 PM
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In reply to: rock climbing is not a sport you can cheat at!
We must be practicing different sports.
DMT
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squierbypetzl
Moderator
Jul 31, 2005, 2:20 AM
Post #23 of 27
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Hmmm.... fun....
Ok, since I got whooped by a frigginī traverse on a rock wall today (damn bifingers and half centimeter crimps in every direction but the one I could use them on bubbly volcanic rock -kills fingertips- ... Iīm not too cheery right now), Iīll try to provide some advice you can use.
The way I see it, if you want to do the route the way the setter intended, youīll need to ask him or someone who knows. Some indoor routes are set so that you can or need to use feature on the wall; but some others are set with the idea that itīs just the holds on route, think of a big slab of smooth granite and youīre climbing in the middle, so the only holds around are the ones that are plastic.
Did you get that? Rather badly written but I donīt want to redo it... :wink:
For training purposes (as in your question), well decide which is harder and the see which you prefer.
Thereīs a bouldering "game" that some play that is basically doing the problem "outlawing" some holds, in an effort to make the problem different/harder/whatever. Some people hate that some other people do this, but it can be fun sometimes, so what the hell spice things up.
Try and decipher the cuasi-riddle above and then apply it to the routes. Make it as if that hold just wasnīt there if thatīs the way you want to do it (if ppl bitch about that being dumb because the hold is there and you SHOULD use it no matter what, then jumar up that mofo and take the hold off -with the setterīs permission; coming up with a challenging fun route is not an easy job ya know).
PS:blablablabla....... :D
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johnny_b_goode
Jul 31, 2005, 3:00 AM
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Am I the only one out there who read this thread just to laugh every time I saw the "go away nOOb!" picture??
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squierbypetzl
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Jul 31, 2005, 4:22 AM
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:D
1070 views, only 23 responses, now 24...
Thatīs +1046 people whoīve done the same (not really sure why I didnīt... oh wait! nope thatīs not it...)
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