|
bmapple
Sep 27, 2005, 12:31 PM
Post #1 of 20
(3263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 1, 2005
Posts: 52
|
I saw that Acme Climbing has four packs of repalcement handles (the speed handle/coffee grinder type) for the Omega Pacific ice screws. Has anyone tried these on the BD express screws? Looks about the right size, but figured I would see if its been done before bothering wih trying it out.
http://acmeclimbing.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=478
|
|
|
|
|
tradklime
Sep 27, 2005, 2:41 PM
Post #2 of 20
(3263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 2, 2002
Posts: 1235
|
They don't fit right on BD screws.
|
|
|
|
|
iceisnice
Sep 27, 2005, 8:17 PM
Post #3 of 20
(3263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 2, 2004
Posts: 874
|
just a side note too......i sacrificed a screw to test a theory a friend of mine had on the omega screws.....its possible for the biner to flip and cross over the handle and when it is loaded enough it snaps the handle right off. i jumped pretty hard on it and i was a bit surprise to see the handle snap so easily (i thought the biner would have given first as it was cross laoded in a major way). won't happen with a BD screw as the handle can fold down. just food for thought.
|
|
|
|
|
furrymurry
Sep 28, 2005, 1:14 AM
Post #4 of 20
(3263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 6, 2004
Posts: 205
|
Since the handle on the omega screws doesn't fold down, it is designed to break if loaded, so as to avoid breaking the carabiner, as you postulated.
|
|
|
|
|
vegastradguy
Sep 28, 2005, 1:19 AM
Post #5 of 20
(3263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 28, 2002
Posts: 5919
|
In reply to: Since the handle on the omega screws doesn't fold down, it is designed to break if loaded, so as to avoid breaking the carabiner, as you postulated.
ah, so in other words, you're hosed regardless of which breaks.
|
|
|
|
|
tallnik
Sep 28, 2005, 1:24 AM
Post #6 of 20
(3263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 18, 2004
Posts: 595
|
If the handle breaks off, who cares.
Put a new one on.
At $30 a screw new, they appear to be a good deal.
Nik
|
|
|
|
|
iceisnice
Sep 28, 2005, 4:05 PM
Post #7 of 20
(3263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 2, 2004
Posts: 874
|
furrymurry, "designed" to break off? or they just happen to break off? just curious if you know something about the design. as for the arguement of "when they break off just replace them"........easy to say on the ground. lets here that repeated high up on a hard alpine route. when you are up there i don't think you really care about the $15 you saved by not getting a BD screw, hehe.
|
|
|
|
|
jimdavis
Oct 1, 2005, 3:54 AM
Post #8 of 20
(3263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 1, 2003
Posts: 1935
|
In reply to: furrymurry, "designed" to break off? or they just happen to break off? just curious if you know something about the design. as for the arguement of "when they break off just replace them"........easy to say on the ground. lets here that repeated high up on a hard alpine route. when you are up there i don't think you really care about the $15 you saved by not getting a BD screw, hehe.
Well, you can still get the screw out, and you can still put it back in, and it still will hold just the same...so I wouldn't be too scared.
I might be pissed that I couldn't place that one as fast anymore, but oh well.
The first pitch I led was on Lucky screws that were dull, rusty, and without speed knobs...and that was only last year.
Those knobs are nice, but they're still functional w/o em.
Cheers,
Jim
|
|
|
|
|
chriss
Oct 1, 2005, 10:33 PM
Post #9 of 20
(3263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 13, 2004
Posts: 92
|
I have put the OP handles on some older BD screws.
DO NOT try to modify the screw hanger. Grind the slot in the OP replacement handle a little deeper and they fit on the BD screws. The handle makes the BD clip hole smaller though.
Or. Cut them (the replacement handle) down and drill them to replace broken handles on the BD screws. Yes, the BD handles break off as well.
The replacement handles are soft aluminum (and cheap). Theyare much easier and safer to work with that trying to modify a screw hanger.
chris
|
|
|
|
|
tim
Oct 2, 2005, 12:17 AM
Post #10 of 20
(3263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 4, 2002
Posts: 4861
|
In reply to: In reply to: Since the handle on the omega screws doesn't fold down, it is designed to break if loaded, so as to avoid breaking the carabiner, as you postulated. ah, so in other words, you're hosed regardless of which breaks.
How are you hosed if a convenience handle breaks off?
It's like saying you're fucked if your little speed knob on the steering wheel comes off. No, then you just have to drive by turning the wheel like everyone else. It would be much, much worse if the knob (in either case) broke the important piece (the biner in this case) cause then you would get the chop for sure.
I have these things on all my older screws and they work fine, plus they are a lot cheaper than replacing the old screws with nice BD Turbo Super Universal 360 Express screws or whatever they're called this week.
The BD screws are nice, but come on, it's just a piece of metal that you turn into a frozen waterfall with the assumption that it will slow you down as your tools give you a lobotomy and your crampons snap your ankles in the fall. Let's not lose perspective here -- my tag line is basically all about ice ;-)
|
|
|
|
|
tim
Oct 2, 2005, 12:25 AM
Post #11 of 20
(3263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 4, 2002
Posts: 4861
|
In reply to: as for the arguement of "when they break off just replace them"........easy to say on the ground. lets here that repeated high up on a hard alpine route. when you are up there i don't think you really care about the $15 you saved by not getting a BD screw, hehe.
Dude, a coathanger or tool pick through the biner hole (or a sling clipped in and used as the "handle" while twisting madly) will do the same thing (cf. Charlet Moser's old "turbine" gadget -- real high tech ;-)). The handle he's talking about isn't the black steel part that attaches a biner to the tube of the screw, but rather the coffee-grinder convenience item that makes it a little easier to spin the thing. If you really want convenience buy Grivels, and be prepared for a reaming your bank account won't soon forget.
$15 x 10 screws (2 per belay + 6 for the pitch) == $250. That's a lot of gas money, and the Smiley's/Omega screws have the same nickel plating, same screw pitch, same alloy, and same diameter as the BD screws, cause Smiley's used the same factory that BD originally made theirs in. That's right, you're paying $15-$20 per screw for little more than a brand name! (Still feel smug, flippant, and clever now? Just wondering ;-))
I have on my rack an assortment of old Smiley's screws, new Turbo Express screws, a Grivel 360 (actually on loan from a friend who quit climbing for a while), and some older BD screws with Omega coffeegrinder handles. I have had a chance to use all of them, and not once in dozens of pitches of ice have I managed to pop off one of the Omega handles. The Grivels are the nicest screws (and hardest to rack), the BD's are nice but not as smooth, and the Omegas get the job done. The only kind of screws I don't trust on lead are the titanium screws -- as Twight says, "how do you know that titanium came from the submarine factory and not the teapot factory?" Other than that, though, I can't discern any substantive difference in quality between the various brands. If the BD's are on sale for a similar price to the Omegas, yeah I'll replace a trashed screw with the BD, they're a bit nicer. But the difference really isn't that significant.
|
|
|
|
|
reno
Oct 2, 2005, 1:43 AM
Post #12 of 20
(3263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 18283
|
In reply to: lets here that repeated high up on a hard alpine route. when you are up there i don't think you really care about the $15 you saved by not getting a BD screw, hehe.
If you're "up there" and have to bail because you can't place a screw without a quickie handle, you have no business being "up there" in the first place, and should instead pursue a career in, say, bowling.
|
|
|
|
|
furrymurry
Oct 2, 2005, 3:48 PM
Post #13 of 20
(3263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 6, 2004
Posts: 205
|
As to whether the handle is actually "designed" to break off: yes, it is. That was printed in I believe R&I last year and when I asked the rep about it at Ouray he confirmed that, though unlikely, if the handle is loaded it is designed to break first.
|
|
|
|
|
gunked
Oct 2, 2005, 4:52 PM
Post #14 of 20
(3263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2002
Posts: 615
|
In reply to: I saw that Acme Climbing has four packs of repalcement handles (the speed handle/coffee grinder type) for the Omega Pacific ice screws. Has anyone tried these on the BD express screws? Looks about the right size, but figured I would see if its been done before bothering wih trying it out. http://acmeclimbing.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=478
As said, it requires a little modification of the Knob, but it works fine. I used a jewelers saw to widen the channel and dig down a little deeper. I also modified the nut a little so it can cinch down better on more threads. I used loc-tite on that nut.
If you have specific questions on how to do this, PM me and I'll render some instructional pics for ya. :wink:
Pros:
-Cheaper, especially if you already have BD screws w/out the handles
-They're BD screws! :)
Cons:
-Handle won't tuck away.
-Doesn't rack as easy, but it still racks!
IMHO, if buying them new, get the screw with the knobs built in. With the amount of time it takes to modify on of these properly and ordering and paying for the knobs(which are pretty cheap), you'll probably end up wishing you just threw down the extra dough in the first place :wink: !
REMINDER : DO NOT MODIFY THE SCREW HANGER AT ALL!!!
Good Luck!
-Jason :D
P.S. - It's getting a little ornery in this forum...the ICE better come soon! 8^)
|
|
|
|
|
gunked
Oct 2, 2005, 5:00 PM
Post #15 of 20
(3263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2002
Posts: 615
|
In reply to: As to whether the handle is actually "designed" to break off: yes, it is. That was printed in I believe R&I last year and when I asked the rep about it at Ouray he confirmed that, though unlikely, if the handle is loaded it is designed to break first.
That was actually a concern of mine when I first made this modification a few years ago. Whether the rope could catch on the hanger and sustain some damage. That little knob is sticking straight out.
I figured it probably would break off. In the unlikely event of the rope taking damage in a fall...well...I always climb ice with double ropes. Not a happy scenario, but a backup plan if the fit hits the shan!
My other backup plan is to never fall while leading ice! :shock: This is IMO a not-so-smart thing to do!!! :wink:
-Jason :D
|
|
|
|
|
iceisnice
Oct 2, 2005, 5:09 PM
Post #16 of 20
(3263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 2, 2004
Posts: 874
|
furrymurry, thanks for the info. i was curious about it myself. as for the other people on the site that feel the need to pound their chests on an internet forum.......i was talking about the handle breaking, not the swivel (is that how you spell swivel? it looks funny). furrymurry, thanks for answering the question like an adult (unlike others).
|
|
|
|
|
furrymurry
Oct 3, 2005, 4:51 AM
Post #17 of 20
(3263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 6, 2004
Posts: 205
|
No problem, I aim to please...
|
|
|
|
|
pyramid
Oct 3, 2005, 1:46 PM
Post #18 of 20
(3263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Posts: 51
|
Ask stupid questions get mean answers. :oops:
|
|
|
|
|
furrymurry
Oct 3, 2005, 11:38 PM
Post #19 of 20
(3263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 6, 2004
Posts: 205
|
It wasn't a stupid question, a-hole.
|
|
|
|
|
pico23
Jan 7, 2006, 2:46 AM
Post #20 of 20
(3263 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 14, 2003
Posts: 2378
|
In reply to: furrymurry, "designed" to break off? or they just happen to break off? just curious if you know something about the design. as for the arguement of "when they break off just replace them"........easy to say on the ground. lets here that repeated high up on a hard alpine route. when you are up there i don't think you really care about the $15 you saved by not getting a BD screw, hehe.
I was doing a screw search on Yahoo and this thread popped up.
Just wondering, is the integrity and function of the screw significantly compromised if the knob breaks off? It's just a standard BD express screw or standard OP screw. Still works just fine.
|
|
|
|
|
|
