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oldsalt
Nov 27, 2005, 2:24 AM
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Note: This TR is about a solo lead climb that I made on the Friday after Thanksgiving, in order to enjoy a solo climb and to test the solo lead belay device that I have been designing and testing for over a year. This is not a commercial advertisement, because it is not for sale at this time and may not ever be. I hope that the process of live equipment tests makes interesting reading. This climb was a delight, despite some minor problems.
........................
Finally, my prototype Guardian lead solo device worked as designed in the real world. As an arthritic 55 year old coming to climbing late in life, Mt. Yonah (Yonah, Georgia) is the toughest approach that I have ever done. On the day after Thanksgiving, I dragged myself up the 2.7 mile gravel road for the fifth time.
I scrambled along the rocky path to the Two-man Party two-pitch routes area. All of the old approach and anchor cables have been replaced with new stainless, and I am extremely grateful for the work. Just as I started hauling on the cable to reach the base of the Main Face, a large ice fall skidded past me about 20 feet away. Two Thanksgivings ago, my son-in-law and I made our first hike and climb at Yonah and the entire upper face was sheeted in ice. We climbed Lowers while 14 separate falls roared through the trees near us.
Today, I was alone.
I noticed a small, weathered tree somehow growing on solid rock on my way up. It had some holes running completely through the trunk. It would have made a great photograph, but I quickly discovered that I had left the camera in the car. I had planned to take pictures during my climb, but there was no way I was going to hike down and back to get it. It was very disappointing.
I dragged out an earlier version of the device to try some improvements while the company looked at the newer, much lighter version. With those modifications in place, I was read for a serious outdoor test.
It was 90% successful.
I anchored to the belay anchor bolts at the base of the 5.5 Army Red and White routes, dropped the rope into the device and locked the case with a locker. The first bolt on the White route is over a small brow with a vertical hand crack. I used two hand jams, grabbed a couple of finger tip indentations, and did some slab friction smears to reach the first bolt. The first clip was simple and I was soon at the second bolt. I fed some slack through the device with one hand and pressed my knee against the rope when I reached toward the draw to clip, causing the device to lock. It was a simple matter to thumb the lock back into climbing mode, but I would have to remember to keep clear of the rope.
After clipping the third bolt, I deliberately down climbed about three feet and the device tipped up toward the bolt from where it was locked to my belay loop. This caused the trailing rope to run through a groove in the case and tension the lock, so it triggered. I was ecstatic because the rope was feeding perfectly and it locked with no more load than the friction of the rope running through the groove. For the first time, I had climbed past the first bolt of a route.
By the fifth and sixth bolts, nearly the entire weight of the rope was suspended from the device and it was still feeding smoothly. The biggest difference between a belayed lead and a solo lead (other than the belayer) is that the climber is lifting the weight of both the up and down strands. The earlier prototypes had not been able to carry this much load without locking.
Once at the belay anchor above the first pitch, I clipped in and found that the midway mark on my rope was just five feet below me. The pitch was taller than I had expected. I clipped the rope to a gear loop. Next, I opened the case of the Guardian and flipped the lock to rappel mode. I tied a figure-eight on a bight and clipped it to one anchor ring. The second anchor ring was probably 20 years old, so I clipped a draw from the manky piece into the bight of the rope for some unreliable insurance.
I always rappel with the device extended on a sling or draw and a Prusik backup below it. The groove in the case that made the lock work to catch a fall was locking the rope when on rappel. I manually opened the lock and used the Prusik to control the descent, but that was too jerky. Finally, I decided that when I got back home, I would put 180 and 400 grit sandpaper across the top of the groove to reduce the friction when rappelling, but I couldn't do that at the crag. I switched over to my regular belay device and went on down to the base, cleaning as I descended.
I broke down the anchor and re-rigged the Guardian for a top rope ascent. The same friction that fouled the rappel also interfered with the ascent. I expect that polishing the friction point will fix the problem with both uses. I switched to my regular TR solo device and went back up to the anchor at the top of pitch #1. There, I set up the anchor for the second pitch and headed upward.
I began to work my way through dripping wet rock after the second bolt, but the upper part of these routes are barely more than scrambles. I had no problem with either hands or feet, and the rope fed through the device as easily as it had during the first pitch. At the anchor, I passed the rope through the newer and much smoother stainless belay ring of the two that had been placed there, and once again rigged my belay device for rappelling. I put the rope's midpoint mark in the ring, but I couldn't see the lower belay anchors and I took the time to put stopper knots on both ends of the rope.
The rappel and cleaning went smoothly back to the belay anchors. I reset for the final rappel and completed the climb with a big smile on my face. And me with no camera. The hike down to the parking lot went more smoothly this time than on any of the four previous trips. I was passed on the way down by a gas truck and a pickup, so I exaggerated my limp and smiled broadly at each driver. All I got was a wave from the teenaged girl in the pickup's passenger seat; no offer of a ride. Still, it was a great day for me. I have come to truly love lead soloing.
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j_ung
Nov 28, 2005, 1:22 PM
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Congratulations, Steve! I know this moment has been a long time in the making. Here's to many more in a long string of successes!
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overlord
Nov 28, 2005, 2:14 PM
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nice. care to share the design?? offcourse if youve already patented it and stuff. i wouldnt want somebody stealing it because of my questions...
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okieterry
Nov 28, 2005, 2:55 PM
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Interesting....
I was wondering if you have done any testing using a dummy weight to see how it works with severe falls.
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microbarn
Nov 28, 2005, 3:53 PM
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Congrats on having everything work as hoped. I am also curious of the design. I hope that you don't mind discussing it some.
I was particularly intrigued by the locking. From what you said in the story, it locks when the device points up. Does it work if a climber is upside down?
Any chance you have pictures???? :)
FYI: I think you have some time (3 years?) to patent a device after you have it designed, and I think you can also use posts to forums such as this to prove you came up with it first. I hope someone more familiar with patent law posts though. I don't want you to base your decisions off of my weak knowledge in the area.
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johnclimbrok
Nov 28, 2005, 5:08 PM
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to incredibly oversimplify - basically you've got a year after the thing works
but there are a number of issues to consider that require more information
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oldsalt
Nov 28, 2005, 5:59 PM
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Thanks to all for your responses and questions to date...
In no particular order, the device hangs from your belay loop and connects to your rope via draws and bolts or slings and pro. When you fall below the bolt or pro, the device is pulled into position - without fail - and locks. Head first or feet first, the device orients itself to the pro and not to the body.
I have pictures, but at this time they only go to the company checking it out. I trust the company and its leader (and I have a non-disclosure agreement), so I don't want to do anything to jeopardize this potential relationship.
I have dived off of the wall with a secondary belay numerous times at the gym. It catches my 220 pounds without hesitation, when all of the components are in place. The main problems encountered outside before this weekend involved it locking while you were climbing up. Tighten up the lock and it wanted to let me fall.
What I demonstrated on this climb was that the lock held while climbing with the full rope length hanging on it, without releasing, but when I down climbed and the thing lifted up to the clip, it locked. This was wonderful, because if it catches a downclimb, it will catch a fall with its greater velocity to activate the lock.
It is hard to describe without revealing too much of everything, but I had such fun doing the solo lead that I had to share it. With a little polishing, you will be able to solo lead up on it, rappel down with it, TR back up after breaking down the anchor and continue on multiple pitches. As noted in my post, I didn't use it for rappelling or TRing on this climb. I will in the future.
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microbarn
Nov 28, 2005, 6:07 PM
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Thanks for the answers. I can't wait until you can share it with the rest of us.
Again, congrats on the positive outcome of the test.
Dan
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maimed
Nov 28, 2005, 6:17 PM
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It must be gratifying to feel things coming together.
If you need additional beta testers, I'd be glad to offer my services.
Great work!
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healyje
Nov 28, 2005, 6:49 PM
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Glad to hear the news! One point, however - some of us don't climb with the rope hanging down - we have it in a small backpack that we feed out of because free climbing with the rope hanging down basically sucks. You may want to give it a whirl in that configuration as well. I use a GoLite "Race" pack myself that is outfitted like a Metolius "Big Wall" gear sling for racking gear.
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healyje
Nov 29, 2005, 1:06 AM
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In reply to: Near the top, does the weight of the suspended rope tend to pull the tail out of the bag?
When free roped soloing I don't use backup knots and after certain amount of rope is out it starts to [reasonably] self-feed so long as you periodically throw a loop out of the pack. Then, after too much rope is out, it starts to self-feed too much and I typically do a double placement and clove a piece that will basically blow in a fall above one that is clipped and will hold normally in a fall - the sacrificial piece just holds the rope weight.
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flamer
Nov 29, 2005, 1:31 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Near the top, does the weight of the suspended rope tend to pull the tail out of the bag? When free roped soloing I don't use backup knots and after certain amount of rope is out it starts to [reasonably] self-feed so long as you periodically throw a loop out of the pack. Then, after too much rope is out, it starts to self-feed too much and I typically do a double placement and clove a piece that will basically blow in a fall above one that is clipped and will hold normally in a fall - the sacrificial piece just holds the rope weight.
I'm assuming you are using a GriGri.
'm sorry did you just say you DON'T use back up knots?? Hmmmm.....I've done alot of rope soloing with everything from a clove to a GriGri(and I now use the Silent partner) and I would never reccomend using a device without a back up. It's just not the way to do it.
josh
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healyje
Nov 29, 2005, 1:58 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: Near the top, does the weight of the suspended rope tend to pull the tail out of the bag? When free roped soloing I don't use backup knots and after certain amount of rope is out it starts to [reasonably] self-feed so long as you periodically throw a loop out of the pack. Then, after too much rope is out, it starts to self-feed too much and I typically do a double placement and clove a piece that will basically blow in a fall above one that is clipped and will hold normally in a fall - the sacrificial piece just holds the rope weight. I'm assuming you are using a GriGri. 'm sorry did you just say you DON'T use back up knots?? Hmmmm.....I've done alot of rope soloing with everything from a clove to a GriGri(and I now use the Silent partner) and I would never reccomend using a device without a back up. It's just not the way to do it. josh
I've been free roped soloing for 30 years and we'll have to disagree. When I'm free climbing I move way too fast for backup knots. I use them when aid rope soloing.
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flamer
Nov 29, 2005, 3:44 AM
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In reply to: I've been free roped soloing for 30 years and we'll have to disagree. When I'm free climbing I move way too fast for backup knots. I use them when aid rope soloing.
Too fast huh?? I assure you I move fast myself and I use 3 to 4 back-up knots with my SP....in fact I regularly move faster than people climbing as a team. Too fast is just not an excuse.
Sorry but just because you've done it for 30 years doesn't mean you've done it right.....
josh
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healyje
Nov 29, 2005, 8:04 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: I've been free roped soloing for 30 years and we'll have to disagree. When I'm free climbing I move way too fast for backup knots. I use them when aid rope soloing. Too fast huh?? I assure you I move fast myself and I use 3 to 4 back-up knots with my SP....in fact I regularly move faster than people climbing as a team. Too fast is just not an excuse. Sorry but just because you've done it for 30 years doesn't mean you've done it right..... josh
Josh, I've easily done in the neighborhood of a thousand multi-pitch roped solos over that time frame via every technique and device imaginable and we'll simply have to agree to disagree. You should definitely be doing a pitch in about 75% of the time it takes a pair to do it as a norm and faster if you are dialed. If you're using back up knots I can assure you you're moving slower and stopping more to fck around with backup knots than I am. Would I recommend people not use them? No, it's my gig and I might evaluate risks differently than another would. And in this case, stopping to screw around with backup knots and their attending impact on backpack-fed rope systems falls into the category of neutralizing their advantages when free climbing for me compared to climbing through. And yes, I've taken plenty of dives over the years.
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flamer
Nov 29, 2005, 2:33 PM
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In reply to: Would I recommend people not use them? No, it's my gig and I might evaluate risks differently than another would.
Fair enough.
I don't screw around with a back pack though....
josh
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hillbillywannabe
Nov 29, 2005, 3:50 PM
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wow some one else went ot yonah =P i have been there once and enjoyed it. it was my first place to go multi pitch. i dont remember which routes we did, one we got to the first belay ledge and it was to wet and ended up having to go down, the next one wasnt that wet, i think it was one of the colored ones. we went in the spring, and didnt see any ice....
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oldrnotboldr
Nov 29, 2005, 5:11 PM
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Many congrats on your climb and new device! Well done!!
Questions though...
What are its specific advantages over, say, the silent partner?
Do you plan to market it soon?
Could you describe the design a bit, without revealing too much? Size, weight, etc?
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healyje
Nov 29, 2005, 9:16 PM
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In reply to: I don't screw around with a back pack though....
Josh,
The issue here is how and where do you want to deal with the weight and drag of the rope while climbing. You have to deal with the weight regardless. Drag you can deal with two ways, let the extra rope hang or stuff it in a bag on your back. I prefer the latter as it is in a known, dealable place at all times and results in zero drag. The GoLite "Race" pack setup for racking gear weights nothing, has a water bladder and is actually quite sweet. I wouldn't go back to letting the rope hang again for free climbing. Aid, however, is a different dog all together.
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flamer
Nov 29, 2005, 10:23 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: I don't screw around with a back pack though.... Josh, The issue here is how and where do you want to deal with the weight and drag of the rope while climbing. You have to deal with the weight regardless. Drag you can deal with two ways, let the extra rope hang or stuff it in a bag on your back. I prefer the latter as it is in a known, dealable place at all times and results in zero drag. The GoLite "Race" pack setup for racking gear weights nothing, has a water bladder and is actually quite sweet. I wouldn't go back to letting the rope hang again for free climbing. Aid, however, is a different dog all together.
Of course then you have to put the rope back into the pack after you finish a pitch....the way I do it I don't ever have to restack...time saver....I also only use 1 rope and I usually jug to re-ascend the pitch....you must free climb on TR? Because I'd never Jug without at least 1 back up knot.
I certainly agree that aid is a different animal.
josh
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healyje
Nov 29, 2005, 10:37 PM
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Yep, I second the pitch, I never jug accept when aiding and I do use backup knots when jugging. Reloading the rope is time lost but I have the bag rigged with a draw that I use to clip it to the anchor, then run the rope through the anchor to the bag, and restack it - very quick - but not as quick as not doing it. I make up for it with less screwing around with the rope on the pitch. The choice for me is still around rope weight/drag - I prefer it predictably on my back and effortlessly feeding out than dragging it up as I climb.
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oldsalt
Nov 30, 2005, 12:55 AM
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In reply to: Many congrats on your climb and new device! Well done!! Questions though... What are its specific advantages over, say, the silent partner? Do you plan to market it soon? Could you describe the design a bit, without revealing too much? Size, weight, etc?
I don't like to see RC.com used as an advertising vehicle, but I also have gotten excellent feedback on solo leading and questions like this one about the device. Since you can't buy it unless some company picks it up from me, it ain't advertising until then.
Answers, etc:
Silent Partner is what I wanted to use, but I couldn't afford it at the time. It seems to be heavy and you must use a proper clove hitch. No big deal, if you can't tie a proper clove hitch, you shouldn't be climbing. Still....
The prototype being reviewed for sale is 8 oz. The rope drops into the case, which locks securely. No knot tying. Use it to lead climb, then rappel to break down the anchor, then TR solo on it back up to set the anchor for the next pitch.
This TR was about what has become for me, the best day of climbing in my life. Whatever device you use, however you back it up, if self-reliance is part of your makeup, then rope soloing could be for you. The very nature of the activity means that you should learn all you can, talk (rc.com, other climber, etc.) about techniques, equipment, etc.
In truth, someone telling me that they use backup knots is useful to me and I value what they have written. Having someone tell me to use backup knots (or any other directives) goes against my grain. Solo climbing on a rope is dangerous, just as belayed climbing is. You are stupid to think otherwise, but we do it anyway. Pour on the advice, knock off the "I know better than you do" and enjoy doing it and/or reading about it.
Please share your solo experiences, as well. What went wrong? What did you see? What worked? What didn't? My first TR on here was about my first top rope solo where I got stuck less than 12" off the ground for 30 minutes until I could set a Prusik above the Petzl Ti-block and escape the jam. We all learn from how others have had problems and found ways to work out of the situation.
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flamer
Nov 30, 2005, 7:18 PM
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In reply to: In truth, someone telling me that they use backup knots is useful to me and I value what they have written. Having someone tell me to use backup knots (or any other directives) goes against my grain. Solo climbing on a rope is dangerous, just as belayed climbing is. You are stupid to think otherwise, but we do it anyway. Pour on the advice, knock off the "I know better than you do" and enjoy doing it and/or reading about it.
Boy it sure breaks my heart that you don't like the way i word things.
josh
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oldrnotboldr
Nov 30, 2005, 7:22 PM
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Thanks for the information. Your device sounds quite nice, and light weight.
My soloing experiences run the gamut. My first attempt was pretty pathetic. I was trying to use a prusik loop and that took a fair amount of fidding to get to slide up the rope decently. Spent a lot of time floundering around. I have also used a grigri (yes, I know) and a soloist. I have done loops and find that efficient but a bit cumbersome. I generally use a back pack for the extra rope. I did try just letting it hang and found rope drag terrible. the The soloist works very nice, but it is a little hefty and care needs to be taken ensure proper set up. Also, it does not work when inverted. I did take a sort of head first fall and the soloist did lock up, but I mark that up as a fluke as the manual clearly states it will not work when inverted. Most likely I was not completely inverted and so that should not be an accurate test. Wren also makes one called the solo aid. I have not tried that one. Their web site states the weights as: solo aid: 7.4 oz.; soloist: 11.3 oz.; and the silent partner: 16 oz. I liked the soloist for the ease of rope feed but again care really needs to be taken to ensure correct setup.
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