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bues0022
Oct 9, 2006, 5:34 AM
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A little background on my question: I've been climbing off and on for about a year at a local outdoor shop that has a climbing cave in the basement, though lately I've gotten much more active down there. It's free to climb, and I don't think the shop really does a whole lot of work down there. It's pretty mch up to the climbers. About once a year (supposedly) they remove all holds, clean them, and put them back up. When they put them up I don't think they do it with specific routs in mind, they just throw them up and let people figure things out. So, becuase of this not all holds have taped routes on them. Now, I kinda have the feeling that you shouldn't tape a route before you can finish it without falling. Also, in the fine print of the "climbing rules" it says: do not move holds. Me and a buddy had been working on a route for a few months, and went down there the other day to find that a kid had pulled a bunch of holds from all over the wall and assembled a ladder across the ceiling. Though none of the holds were officially marked yet, they were pretty crucial to two routes we had been putting together, and others were just good holds to play around on.
So my question is this, in this type of a scenario, what is the proper indoor hold etiquette? Should I just go with the flow of this kid moving things all over just for his liking, or am I right to be a little pissed he's moving all kinds of holds to assemble his own routes? Mostly, down there occasionally holds will go up, but never move around. People usually put up routes with holds that are already placed and don't set routes by moving them. I'm looking for more experienced people's advise on this. I'm not trying to bitch and moan too much here, just understand the accepted practice on moving holds.
Cheers!
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overlord
Oct 9, 2006, 8:49 AM
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the 'hold moving etiquette' is mostly defined by the wall owners.
though at our wall we have a policy of not changing holds once a route was established using them.
and we dont use tape. each hold has a number and then we just write down the sequences in a notebook.
as for cleaning holds/putting them back up, its usually nice if you put some thought to the usefullness of the hold in its new location, but again, this is something to be discussed with the owners.
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lena_chita
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Oct 9, 2006, 7:32 PM
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Ask the owners. Should be obvious.
If they say "no moving holds around", you can either tell them that someone did move them, or ask for a permission to do some moving on your own, depending on your personality. For all I know, the guy who moved those holds already asked and got O.K.
As far as not taping the route until you can do it without falling... Where did you get that from? Tape what you want, IMO, esp. in an informal- sounding place like your store basement cave place. If it turns out that you taped something so stupid that even a V27 boulderer can't do it after trying over and over... well, that was just stupid on your part. And if you do that repeatedly, you will become known as a guy who can't set routes worth sh_t, that's all :wink: ...
On the other hand, what's the point of taping at all? It sounds like a very informal kind of place, so if you know and your buddy knows which holds you are trying to string together, that's all that matters...
And since you and your buddy have been working on a route for several months and it was still not doable, maybe you should better spend your time working on something else? A few months is how long any given route stays up in our gym anyway... So maybe you should thank the kid who moved those holds, b/c it will now force you to vary your practice a bit.
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winglessangel
Oct 9, 2006, 8:40 PM
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In reply to: each hold has a number and then we just write down the sequences in a notebook.
funny you said that. My gym is quite like, but instead of numbers each hold has a name. Usually based on the shape.
The things is, there are no marks at all on the holds. There is just this huge notebook with over one hundred routes. And rules for hold moving are simple and informal. you ASK AROUND if people will mind. Every hold has a route going through. Every once in a while a route will be destroyed. But, whatever, move on... If the route was "important" you will definitely see the holds back up in place.
So, just talk to the kid. Tell him to ask around next time, to move only a few holds at the time. Exchange route ideas with him.
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midwestishell
Oct 9, 2006, 9:07 PM
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You have a tough situation because there is no gym-wench or supreme wall keeper as there are at many other gyms. As a head route setter I would be pissed off if any of our holds got moved regardless of if they were taped or not if I wasn't asked first. Lots of people get routes started and if it is a free for all there is absolutely no way anyone would ever finish one of considerable difficulty.
Here is what I tell people. Tick mark your holds with a small piece of tape while developing a problem. If there is a tick, the hold should not be touched.
Not sure if this gets you anywhere but hopefully its useful.
Th
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cintune
Oct 9, 2006, 9:49 PM
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Hide the wrench.
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bues0022
Oct 9, 2006, 10:05 PM
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lena_chita Posted: 09 Oct 2006 19:32 Post subject: Re: hold moving etiquette
Replying to lena_chita...
As far as "what's the point of taping?" I guess it's to put up a hard route (and fun) and spark imagination in other climbers to try something new. On that note, a few of the routes this kid put up are pretty sweet. They involve some pretty interesting body positioning and are tough to figure out. Also, it's not like me and my buddy had been working only on this route and that's it. We would give it a go usually first thing because it's full of nasty roof pinchers that we can't hang onto unless we're relatively fresh. My buddy just got it last week, now it's my turn.
In the grand scheme, it doesn't really matter a whole lot because if the wall doesn't ever change it can get boring, but it was frustrating to have a hold moved from a route we were so close to finishing. Maybe I could just put the hold back while I'm down there trying my thing, and replace it to his location when I'm done. The shop doesn't care where holds are down there, as long as nobody steals any!
Thanks for all the input. It turns out there really isn't an unwritten rule of etiquette as I thought there might be. I'll have to find the kid again and agree on things with him.
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sidepull
Oct 9, 2006, 11:06 PM
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wow, in our world of go to war first find evidence later, hate and polarization, and political bally-hooed propaganda and lies it seems that talking to the person that you have a disagreement with might be a wonderful solution. let us know how it goes and maybe it can be used as a model for the US and N. Korea (or insert any of several other countries here).
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bues0022
Oct 10, 2006, 1:12 AM
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haha, yeah maybe the politicians should take a step back. I went there tonight and later he showed up. I just kinda told him what was up, and we kinda left it that we'd likely be moving the one particular hold in question back and forth for what route you want to climb. The kid was pretty cool with it, and we ended up climbing for about 2 hours there. Apparently, most of the taped routes down there are things he put up anyway, so he just figured he was changing one of his routes for a new one. Anyway, changing the room around isn't that bad anyway, keeps it interesting.
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