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doz
Jun 19, 2008, 6:45 PM
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Anyone ever aid using twin lines? I happened across an article of a guy using twins. I have always used a stout single (typical setup). What would be the advantages/disadvantages. Self rescue and rope drag issues I understand what else am I missing, I have enough ropes to get a super cluster without the need of running twin belay lines as well.
Doz
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tolman_paul
Jun 19, 2008, 10:34 PM
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Sounds like a setup from someone who does alot of contemplation of theoretical advantages, but hasn't spent alot of time applying them in the field.
As much as I prefer 1/2 ropes on multi pitch free climbs, I wouldn't even contemplate such a setup on a wall. Lead line, zip line, haul line is plent to contend with. Even soloing all I'd want would be a lead and haul line.
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pmyche
Jun 19, 2008, 11:00 PM
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jeremy11
Jun 21, 2008, 12:40 AM
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"Desert Rock" mentioned a Jim Beyer FA in the Fischer Towers and said he used two 11mm ropes, solo.
It could provide an extra margin if the route has lots of knife-sharp edges or major rockfall. the only other possible advantage would be on very marginal aid using double 8.5s alternating clips, using screamers to reduce impact forces on the suspect pieces, but this would be a rare case where it would be worth the extra tangle.
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stymingersfink
Jun 21, 2008, 2:30 PM
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jeremy11 wrote: "Desert Rock" mentioned a Jim Beyer FA in the Fischer Towers and said he used two 11mm ropes, solo. It could provide an extra margin if the route has lots of knife-sharp edges or major rockfall. the only other possible advantage would be on very marginal aid using double 8.5s alternating clips, using screamers to reduce impact forces on the suspect pieces, but this would be a rare case where it would be worth the extra tangle.
If fact, I would pretty much guarantee it.
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lambone
Jul 2, 2008, 3:58 PM
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I could see there being a place for it, especially if the pitch combines a lot of aid and free climbing and wanders around.
I can't quite wrap my head around how you'd clean the pitch though. Screw jugging on 1 8.5 or 9mil rope, and would you have to switch back and forth between ropes after traverses?
Another drawback is that you couldn't use the gri-gri to belay, and honestly I don't trust any of my partners enough to have them belay me for hours on a ATC type device...
I have heard of people starting the pitch on a dynamic haul line, doing a big traverse or pendulum, then switching back to the primary lead line. For example, Hollow Flake on Salathe and also read it on a trip report of Sunkist. This would allow you to protect the pitch low on the traverse or after the pendi without creating henious rope drag in the primary lead line. Of course the cleaner would need to be able to free the haul line from the pro before you can haul.
(This post was edited by lambone on Jul 2, 2008, 4:08 PM)
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justinboening
Jul 2, 2008, 4:37 PM
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Seriously, this is the last time I post on this site! The OP mentioned TWIN ropes and your responses have been in regards to half/double ropes. Now before you lambast me, look up the nomenclature!
Secondly, half ropes DO NOT have any inherent advantage over a single cord in regards to impact force. Sterling did testing on this very issue a year or two ago and the results are well documented on Will Gadd's blog. Quit pontificating. I'd love this site, or any site for that matter, to be a place of discussion, of shared ideas, but there can be no such hope.
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lambone
Jul 2, 2008, 4:47 PM
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The OP talks about Twins mitigating rope drag issues, so assumed he ment half ropes. That or he doesn't know what he's talking about either....
good ridance...btw, this site will be a better place with one less self-rightious know it all.
(This post was edited by lambone on Jul 2, 2008, 4:49 PM)
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TheTeacher
Jul 2, 2008, 5:21 PM
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lambone wrote: good ridance...btw, this site will be a better place with one less self-rightious know it all.
Have you noticed that only 6-10 people post in the big wall section of RC.com? Many have moved to other forums. I enjoy "the more the marrier" philosophy.
I see little advantage to useing twin/half/double ropes over one dedicated lead line. As mentioned before the less C.F. the better.
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stymingersfink
Jul 2, 2008, 6:11 PM
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TheTeacher wrote: lambone wrote: good ridance...btw, this site will be a better place with one less self-rightious know it all. Have you noticed that only 6-10 people post in the big wall section of RC.com? Many have moved to other forums. I enjoy "the more the marrier" philosophy. I see little advantage to useing twin/half/double ropes over one dedicated lead line. As mentioned before the less C.F. the better.
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acorneau
Jul 3, 2008, 3:08 PM
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stymingersfink wrote: [Or maybe its because big-wallin's a little less en vogue for the noobs to aspire to get into lately.
While I'm not a nOOb, and I definitely have never done any big-walling, I read every post in this section.
I'm about as far away from any big walls as you can get (Houston) so there isn't much opportunity to get on any and no one I know has done any (that I know of), just plain ol' sport and trad.
I hope that some day I'll be able to make it out to the valley to take on one of those mammoth walls, but until then, keep posting up so I can leach off your experiences!
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bob_54b
Jul 3, 2008, 3:41 PM
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Using twin 8.5mm lines is really excellent on water fall climbing where you most always need two ropes to rap off anyway and if you chop a line with the axe or crampon it, you still have a viable line to climb on.
it's a real fast rappel though, esp if the ropes are wet, so you need a prusix backup.
twin 8.5s are good on trad leads, esp alpine rock, where there is a lot of back and forth or pieces out of line that would create rope drag by clipping into just one line.
not hard to get used to belaying and using.
twin 10.5s or 11s would be a pain in the ass though, just from the weight you'd have to haul. esp with the 60m ropes. you'd have to have Godzilla's legs to get up. don't think the extra safety margin would be worth it with big ropes.
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jeremy11
Jul 4, 2008, 5:13 PM
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justinboening wrote: Secondly, half ropes DO NOT have any inherent advantage over a single cord in regards to impact force. Sterling did testing on this very issue a year or two ago and the results are well documented on Will Gadd's blog.
good info, here's the link:
http://gravsports.blogspot.com/search?q=sterling
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dyomad
Jul 8, 2008, 10:41 PM
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I don't get why Beyer would use "twin" 11mm ropes for safety from edges. I can't imagine that the huge increase in the force you'd transmit to the top piece falling on two beefy ropes would be worth the "sharp edge" protection.
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tolman_paul
Jul 10, 2008, 11:17 PM
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From various things I've read about Beyer, I'd say he doesn't seem quite right in the head.
Lots of folks come up with interesting ways to use climbing equipment, doesn't mean one should adopt those methods.
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irregularpanda
Jul 10, 2008, 11:28 PM
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acorneau wrote: stymingersfink wrote: [Or maybe its because big-wallin's a little less en vogue for the noobs to aspire to get into lately. While I'm not a nOOb, and I definitely have never done any big-walling, I read every post in this section. I'm about as far away from any big walls as you can get (Houston) so there isn't much opportunity to get on any and no one I know has done any (that I know of), just plain ol' sport and trad. I hope that some day I'll be able to make it out to the valley to take on one of those mammoth walls, but until then, keep posting up so I can leach off your experiences!
Ditto that. I prefer to slowly accumulate my aid gear, until one day (or month) I decide o learn it.
Keep talking you old fogies, that sound you hear, that's just me biting your ideas.
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