This is an unfortunate permanent change to a unique, interesting piece of geologic history.

What would you do if I told you that somewhere in your fair state, somebody used carriage bolts to keep a feature on the wall- and the route was pretty popular?

Would you shitz your pantz in rage?

It would depend on the area. I'm not judging all types of "enhancement" to the rock, or the people who may implement unnatural strategies to climb a route. All I am saying is that this act was unnecessary. The only reason a person would NEED to climb this boulder is laziness. There are many other boulder problems in the area that are natural. No need to destroy a neat piece of Tahoe's natural history.

No, I would hunt you down and Captain Hook you for being an idiot. They are called GYMS. If movement and creating your own challenge are what you are all about, I imagine it would be hard to come up with a better venue.

Tahoe has a fine and storied tradition of climbers using cement on lake-side rock.

DMT

I get the sense you haven't been climbing very long.

Not to say everyone isn't entitled to their opinion, but reinforcing existing holds to preserve a route is a practice that's been around for awhile. Long enough that I'd be surprised that anyone got all that emotional about it at this point regardless if they were for or against.

I know people do that, but I still don't think that makes it ok. I'm not all emotional, just joking around really. Seriously though, why do people need to go out and modify natural rock to cater to their needs when they could just go set some dank shit on the sick wall at their local shower house?

You're missing the point -- I'm not saying you're actually sitting in front of your computer, swelling with rage -- I'm saying that 'They are called GYMS' sort of argument is generally the territory of people that have been climbing for a handful of years or for crusty old farts that suffer under the delusion that they own the sport. Nothing wrong with that; it just seems to be the case more often than not.

I could care less if people are for or against reinforcing holds, but I'm not sure I get how adding a bolt or a bit of glue to prevent a hold from snapping off is any more severe than adding bolts to make a climb protectible.

I would say that it's done to preserve the route, not modify it, and also that it's no more interfering with the natural state of the rock than other acceptable climbing practices already do.

Let me see if I can drop a bunch of subtle insults back your way and then look down my nose at my own hateful and humorless snobbery. Ridiculous.

I'm not reading that.^^^^

It's not hateful neither is it snobbery. You're a hypocrite that you want others to take your posts with humor yet are, yourself, being humorless.

You're right, no one owns the sport and you're wrong; everyone owns a piece of it. Everyone has to have an opinion on what climbing and climbing ethics are, but at the same time, no one person has the authority to universally define them. No matter how well people communicate, not everyone's needs wants will be met and there's always going to be an issue of egos and self-centredness. There are always going to be people that, for better or worse, go against the grain and the fact of the matter is, some of those people have gone towards redefining the sport to make it what it was when you started and what it is now.

Sometimes man conforms to the rock; sometimes man conforms the rock to him. It's been this way for ages.

Sometimes a man conforms to a given society/ culture; sometimes he conforms that society/ culture to him.

You did try to cut me down, but you took it back, thanks. You proved you are not an idiot asshole like so many others on this site. Also, please don't call me a hypocrite. That kind of language makes me so pissed. I wasn't being a hypocrite, I was pointing out how you were trying to be a clever prick. As I said though, thanks for taking that comment back, it really speaks well of you IMO, and I mean that.

Go on........... I'm familiar with Dan Osman glueing holds to a steep piece of rock in the woodfords, but that's not on tahoe....

What would you do if I told you that somewhere in your fair state, somebody used carriage bolts to keep a feature on the wall- and the route was pretty popular?

Would you shitz your pantz in rage?

Hehehe... Stir the pot, my little mistress.

Hummm, thinking to myself... I wonder if I have done the route?

Nobody wants to see drilled pockets, chiseled edges and glue slathered all over the place on good rock. A discret, clean, glued reinforcement of a hold is sometimes acceptable, depending on local ethics.

However, the rules change on choss. Cleaning the rock choss is not generaly considered chipping. Cleaning can be done with a cleaning tool, hammer, crowbar and a diesel back hoe, if you can get it to the base of the crag. Pinning a block or large flake so it doesn't fall off is generally considered OK. Glueing holds is allowed, try not to make a mess and paint it to match the choss, if it makes sence. Even on choss though, drilling pocket is often frowned upon, again depending on local ethics. Generally it is better to enhance clean a feature instead. If you do decide to drill a pocket, round the edge off, nothing worse that a creating tendon buster.

You did try to cut me down, but you took it back, thanks. You proved you are not an idiot asshole like so many others on this site. Also, please don't call me a hypocrite. That kind of language makes me so pissed. I wasn't being a hypocrite, I was pointing out how you were trying to be a clever prick. As I said though, thanks for taking that comment back, it really speaks well of you IMO, and I mean that.


This was redundant. It seems as if we both have more or less the same perspective. I still contend that if people communicated a little better, most of this shit would go away. For example, I wonder how it would work out if the OP got in touch with said spakler and talked it over. I wonder what conclusions, considering they could handle themselves like adults, they would come up with. Maybe I'm just too idealistic, but I've been that way for long enough that I really don't see myself changing. There is plenty of rock to go around, as long as we don't sell it all off to developers or worse yet get ourselves banned from it by not thinking through our actions. You are right though, not everyone can always be happy, but I imagine we could do a better job than we are. If you can't tell, I like the last line I quoted from you, and the one before it as well. Anyway, this thread is off to the RC.com shredder, I'm sure. If you have anything more of value to add, now would probably be the time.


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(just thought I would join the club)

edited to fix quote

i) I'm as much an asshole as anyone.

ii) I don't recall taking anything back. I don't recall saying anything worth taking back. Oh, I am mistaken there: I should have typed 'It's hypocritical' instead of 'You're a hypocrite' to be fair. I don't know you.

iii) How is it that when you post something it's clearly a joke, but when you read someone else's post you just naturally assume that they are humorlessly cutting you down? Why would you just assume the worst of a person like that? I'm just asking, 'cuase I don't get it.

edited to fix quote, and again and again to appease sty.