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rich
Nov 7, 2002, 4:12 PM
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picking up outer layer, insulated layer, and base layer clothing to hit some glaciated peeks, I'm kinda stuck on "Mountain Hardware" but am curious to hear how the rest of you layered up for the expeditions, brands, materials, etc. Also any sizing recommendations, like a size larger for the outer layer or something along those lines. (yes I know how to size my climbing shoes )
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data118
Nov 7, 2002, 4:17 PM
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I'm seeing a lot of Gortex XCR from a number of manufacturers. Don't rule out LL Bean, , they have good stuff. If you look at the material and craftsmanship details, their similiar if not the same as TNF, Mount Hard, Mammut, etc...
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bradhill
Nov 7, 2002, 4:54 PM
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You really want four layers. Base, soft shell, insulation, hard shell.
What you'll be wearing most of the time needs to be way more breathable than even XCR and merely water repellant. I'd recommend a Marmot microfiber windshirt or BD schoeller fabric alpine shirt. They're both really kick-ass, versatile pieces.
I've always been really happy with Marmot gear. The one Mtn Hardwear piece of clothing I purshased I had to send back for repairs when seams started to blow out after wearing it twice. My partner has the Grade 6 jacket and loves it, though.
See the thread on layering for the cold over in the Ladies' Room. More detail there.
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elvislegs
Nov 7, 2002, 5:03 PM
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I think the most overlooked layer is the base layer. A good, non-cotton base layer can make a HUGE difference. I use capaline in various weights. There is other good stuff out there, but don't scrimp.
The other layers are still important, but I think VERY individual. Play with some various layering combinations in various conditions, from the safety of an area that you can climb in the rig and crank the heater if you misjudge.
Find out what works for you, and when, and where, (for instance if it's raining you won't want your down on the outside, but in really cold temps you might). Borrow your friends stuff if possible. You will find that even some inexpensive not-so-brand name gear, you can keep warm. So hard to give good advice on this because there are so many variables.
Here's what I use on most COLD winter routes:
Base: Patagonia expedition weight capaline.
Fleece: Whatever, they are all pretty good, as a mid layer I don't usually worry about windstopper, just weight. Mtn Hdwr makes an awesome fleece pant.
Shell:
Top- Sierra designs superlight something or other, just try to keep the wind and rain out and stay light.
Bottoms- Marmot, stretch armstrong bibs, or something called the "Randonee Pant" (lightweight)
Hat: O.R. Windstopper + helmet, or just a knit beanie for lighter weather.
Down: I have a really great TNF down vest. Lightweight, and I have never needed the extra warmth that the "arms" of a full jacket might provide.
Note: I almost NEVER need ALL this at the same time. I sweat alot when climbing, and sleep pretty warm, so I can usually get away with less than this.
Just some ideas, holy crap have I written enough yet?
Later- Sean
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punk
Nov 7, 2002, 5:26 PM
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Registered: May 28, 2002
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Clothing that works great and cheap with NO HYPE
Polypropylene long john and zip T from http://www.sierratradingpost.com
Big puffy winter coat, worst wool Swedes, pent, socks, liners, hats and gaiters from you favorite local army-navy store
An off brand waterproof breathable shell (red ledge, campmor etc) they will get thrash in no time if u climb often
Neoprene gloves with wool over mitten
U probably can get everything for under 4 bills and this is what u will pay for one shell jacket from Arc'teryx
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elvislegs
Nov 7, 2002, 5:27 PM
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Wool = Weight
You'd have to be warm chugging a hundred pounds of wet sheep fur up the hill. It is very warm stuff though.
[ This Message was edited by: elvislegs on 2002-11-07 09:28 ]
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punk
Nov 7, 2002, 5:37 PM
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Yes weight but no hole in the pocket and refinancing
u probably end up carrying a little more weight but wool works the same if not better then fleece and it makes the windstopper look like a joke
the only high-end companies will do wool
Ibex, Arc'teryx and smart-wool
Frankly I don't mind carrying 8oz extra and saving $300
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bradhill
Nov 7, 2002, 5:42 PM
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Yeah, but very light wool longjohns like smartwool are the best base layer, bar none. Synthetic makes better insulation, but natural fibers are more responsive for thermoregulation.
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el_duderino
Nov 7, 2002, 5:44 PM
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Why not check out buffalo?
I haven't personnally had a chance to try any yet, but I know people who have walked in Iceland and Greenland with this stuff and they reccomend it.
http://www.needlesports.com/gearreviews/buffalo.htm
http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk
It works differently to the layer system, all you need is the buffalo (but I'd personnaly have a base layer which was good at wiccing just in case.) Wear the shirt next to your skin (look for the big face or special 6) and salopettes (I like the look of the specail 6 padded version). You can also buy a belay jacket and mittens made out of the stuff if you find it works for you.
http://www.sportswarehouse.co.uk/ stock it cheaper than anywhere else I've seen.
Just another option, don't think it's neccesarily the right one...
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elvislegs
Nov 7, 2002, 5:49 PM
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Extra 8oz. of wool + H2O = extra three pounds of wool.
Smartwool is a little different, and a great base layer, agreed.
I guesse it's all pesonal, but weight is paramount to me, especially because my alpine climbing is usually alpine style, fast and light. And you can find synthetics just as cheap as wool.
Cheers.
[ This Message was edited by: elvislegs on 2002-11-07 14:12 ]
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tradguy
Nov 7, 2002, 6:06 PM
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I'll do this from the outside in, just 'cause I'm bored:
Shell: Moonstone Sauvage jacket (gore-tex), Mountain Hardware Etherial FTX bibs (gore-tex). I really would have preferred the Moonstone Sauvage bibs, but they would have been $350 rather than $180 for the MHW. Watch STP for deals - Moonstone jacket was $200 instead of $400. My stuff is a few years old, and if I was buying now, I'd look for stuff with the waterproof zippers, since leaving off the rain flap would save some weight.
Camp/summit layer: Marmot "The Warm II" 650 fp down dryloft parka w/ hood. TNF Cerro Torre pants. I use these only around camp, and on particularly bitter summit days (ie 6000m range). Got both under 1/2 price at STP.
Climbing layer: TNF Windstopper jacket, Mountain Hardware union suit (covers legs and torso, no arms) - both 40% off at local shops. Windstopper rocks, though not much need for it for the legs, since you'll be wearing bibs when climbing through the snow anyway.
Base layer: Patagonia silkweight stretch capilene pants and long sleeve zip-T. Patagonia sucks because they quit making the silkweight stretch zip-T, which was in my opinion the best single product they ever made. Mine has endured so much high altitude UV that the black has faded to brown across the shoulders and down the arms. If anyone ever sees one of these in size L, please let me know. I'd be willing to pay a "finder's fee" to get ahold of one.
I've got LOTS more technical clothes (down, various fleece tops and pants, expedition capilene, GoreTex suit, etc) that I've tried and decided I didn't like so much or could do without. This system, however, has worked well for me on a half-dozen trips to 19,000 ft and up. I've recently purchased some Schoeller pants that I'm going to try out, but I'll withhold judgement on them until they see some use this winter.
[ This Message was edited by: tradguy on 2002-11-07 10:14 ]
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punk
Nov 7, 2002, 6:08 PM
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Quote:
You can find synthetics just as cheap as wool
if this is the case then its plain and simple…my post intending was to open one eyes to the hype outthere when u have a valid compatible or better product out there and not make the original poser thinking that his clothing sys will be a limiting factor or will fail if he didn’t buy the brand name latest fashion gimmicks
When u buy garment from any hyped manufacture you pay over 200%, for the hype and I think that this is obscene and disgusting that pp. not told the whole truth
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jhump
Nov 7, 2002, 6:43 PM
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-Base- Sierra Trading Post polyester $15 per set
-Insulation-
-Belay parka- EMS Primaloft (1.3 lbs)- on sale $50.
-Fleece- Sierra Trading Post Exped. Fleece $20/set
-Shell- Marmot Precip top and bottom- 18 oz total and the set can be had at EMS at less than $150 on sale.
Yes this is actually what I wear, and have had no problems in very harsh conditions. I actually own a bunch of heavy, hyped up gear I bought when I started, but it sees a ton of shelf time these days. Get everything so it fits just right or else you look like the little boy in the Christmas Story who falls and cant get up. Just make sure your belay parka can fit over the entire ensemble. Remeber, you have to climb in this stuff so choose wisely.
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arp30
Jan 7, 2003, 9:08 PM
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I agree with a lot of what everyone here has said. What I have found to work well for me is instead of wearing one thick base layer, is I like to wear a crew neck long sleeve layer first, then for my second base layer slightly heavier zip-neck layer. Continue with a fleece, insulator and shell (or whatnot). I have found that two thin base layers works better because it allows for better ventelation and heat retention. It's such a thin layer that it won't add a noticible difference to your bulk.
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mugnyte
Jan 16, 2003, 5:59 PM
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On the cheap:
Base: my bike racing shirt - really. thin Poly with a wicking layer, shortsleeve
Mid: Thin wool. I read above already - doesn't bother me. To the weight dicussion: You're already carrying all that weight - you're only transferring it. Bottle->Body->Clothing
Ins: Poly Fleece. Anything I can get my hands on. Must have a zip neck for venting on those sunny grunters.
Shell: Marmot lightweight for about $150. Shell must-haves: hood, arm vents, big zipper grabs, pockets on the larger size. I'm not picky.
Anyway, this get mr. weekender up and happy.
mug
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no_limit
Jan 22, 2003, 11:49 PM
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Registered: Sep 1, 2002
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Look through your handy dandy "freedom of the hills". It is chock full of information on how to dress for success in the mountains.
Alex
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rockpossum
Jan 23, 2003, 12:04 AM
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Don't be shy about spending on artificial fiber, the good stuff lasts.
I used to be a dyed in the wool, well, wool enthusiast but around 1995 I noticed the "plastics" (as we used to call them) really began to perform.
I still wear wool day to day but for anything longer than a few hours it's "plastic" all the way.
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freehueco
Feb 4, 2003, 4:52 PM
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Registered: Jun 18, 2002
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Pants- REI MTS underwear, REI power stretch pants, REI 200 Fleece, TNF Mountain Bibs, Feathered Friends Frontpoint Pants( for extreme cold).
Tops- Mountain Hardwear Wicked T, Marmot L/S Polypro, Patagonia R2 Jacket, TNF Mountain Jacket, Feathered Friends Frontpoint Pants.
Hands- REI MTS Liners, Mountain Hardwear Powerstretch 150, REI Primaloft Waterproof Mitts, OR Shell Mitts
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jhump
Feb 4, 2003, 7:04 PM
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Registered: May 7, 2002
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Here is my new system. I think it will work well in AK this summer. It stresses breathability over all else and is very light.
TORSO
Base- Light poly zip-T
Mid- EMS windshirt with Driclime lining (12 OZ)
Shell- Wildthings hooded windshirt (8 oz)
Belay- Wildthings Belay Coat (2 lbs)
LEGS
Base- lite poly
Mid- stretch fleece tights
Shell- EMS dynamic bib
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dave1970
Feb 8, 2003, 10:50 PM
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Registered: Jan 2, 2003
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What peaks/climbs and times of the year will you be climbing in?
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