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stormannorman
Dec 9, 2002, 3:28 AM
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Registered: Nov 21, 2001
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I am just curious why when someone re-bolts a route they don't just take out the old bolt and put in a new one in the same hole, instead of re-drilling a new hole. I was curious because I was wondering what the rocks will look like in the next 100 years or so, just a bunch of metal sticking out of the rock rusting?
There has to be a better way!
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mungeclimber
Dec 9, 2002, 3:33 AM
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Registered: Nov 2, 2002
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Typically when you can't pull the entire bolt out you have to put in a new bolt next to the original hole. Reasons for not being able to pull the entire original bolt include lead sleeves, dirt jammed, star dryv sleeve, and lack of familiarity with pulling bolts. Check out the ASCA's website on rebolting if you want more info.
Cheers,
Munge
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tigerbythetail
Dec 9, 2002, 3:42 AM
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I don't know who's doing the rebolting in your area, but it sounds as if they need some direction.
The proper way is indeed to pull the old bolt, redrill the hole and put in a freshie. Sometimes the bolt will snap off in the hole and you can't extract it. In these cases you knock the old bolt back in the hole and patch the mouth of the hole with epoxy and rock dust.
Occasionally the original bolt was in a poor spot, in which case it's best to move it to a better location and then use the same method to patch the hole.
Done right it's next to impossible to tell it's been done, except when you're up there and are set to clip a nice fat bolt as opposed to a rusty spinner.
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redpoint73
Dec 15, 2002, 4:06 PM
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Correct me if I am wrong:
You can redrill the bolt hole if the "old" hole is for a 1/4-inch bolt.
If you replace a 3/8-inch bolt (due to pull out or damage), can you redrill the same hole? Or will the hole be bigger if you redrill (need to use a glue-in)?
I don't bolt anything , I am just curious.
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tigerbythetail
Dec 15, 2002, 4:45 PM
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The reason for redrilling a 1/4" hole(really anything less than 3/8") is to replace the old bolt with something stronger and more reliable.
If for some reason you needed to replace a 3/8" or larger bolt (in some areas older 3/8" bolts are being replaced with 1/2" or larger bolts at cruxes and on severely overhanging rock to afford an extra measure of safety) it would depend upon several things as to whether or not you need to redrill the hole.
Certainly you could redrill the 3/8" hole to accomodate a 1/2" or larger bolt, but if the old hole is not damaged you can often reuse the same hole.
It really depends upon the type of bolts used. Wedge-anchor style bolts can sometimes be pulled directly out, but if not then other measures need to be taken. Sleeve-anchor bolts can be unscrewed and the bolt itself taken out, which still leaves the sleeve. There are ways to remove the sleeve, but the cone is still at the bottom of the hole - you can use a shorter bolt in this same hole or sometimes there are other little tricks to get around this situation.
If you can't reuse the hole due to a poor location, a recalcitrant bolt or some other situation then fill the hole and patch the mouth of it with epoxy and rock dust, which if done properly should blend in nicely.
First and foremost when replacing bolts is to have a good reason for doing so, and of course have lots of experience doing this as many, many people will be trusting your handiwork.
[ This Message was edited by: tigerbythetail on 2002-12-15 08:52 ]
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boltdude
Dec 20, 2002, 2:12 AM
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If you want to re-use a hole with a 3/8" sleeve bolt (Rawl 5-piece), it's actually pretty easy and requires only one trick tool, a hooked piece of metal/stiff wire:
1) unscrew the bolt, remove the hanger and washer (and any sleeve piece that's loose, usually the blue piece only), then screw the bolt back in a few turns (no hanger or washer)
2) tap the bolt once, solidly, with the hammer (don't wail on it, but not too soft either)
3) unscrew the bolt
4) use the hook you find/make to fish out the sleeve; this can be a pain if you're unlucky.
5) using a beater hanger, put the hanger on the bolt and screw it in to the cone - not all the way, but most of the way
6) funk the cone out - it will come easily even in Yosemite granite.
Obviously there are complications, the most common is that the sleeve is so rusted that it disintegrates. A nail or drift pin can be useful to play with the pieces, as can a needlenose pliers.
It's fairly common that you can't get the sleeve out, but you get most cleanly this way.
If the rock's good, the hole's all ready for a new bolt; I most commonly replace short old rusty 5-pieces with identical, but stainless steel, bolts.
Greg
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copperhead
Dec 20, 2002, 2:34 AM
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Registered: Nov 26, 2002
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Listen to boltdude. He knows his stuff.
A motorcyle exhaust spring-puller is a simple and cheap tool that will work to remove a 5-piece sleeve. If the sleeve is stubborn, a thin punch, sharpened to a chisel tip will help. Hammer the punch into the side of the sleeve until it forms a dimple and then pry the sleeve out, using the edge of the hole as the fulcrum. Repeat the process until the sleeve is free of the hole. This also works for removing old 3/8" star dryvn sleeves. The ASCA website has lots of great info; check it out.
http://www.safeclimbing.org/
[ This Message was edited by: copperhead on 2002-12-19 18:39 ]
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