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snapier
Mar 5, 2003, 2:19 PM
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Hi! I am looking to buy new boots for a trip to the Alps. I'm generally going to only be at about 9,000-10,000 feet and will probably only run into snow about 20-25% of the time. I don't think there are any really steep snow sections, so I probably won't even be carrying an ice ax or putting on crampons.
I've never tried pastic boots before and I was wondering if a hike (it's really a hike more than a climb) like the one I'm planning would be ok for pastic boots. I'm looking at the Koflach Degree's because they are a softer plastic and seem more suited toward what I want to do.
I really want to get the plastic boots so I begin to do a little alpine mountaineering. I'm a pretty avid hiker and rock climber so I thought I would try to make a slow transition. So, I'd like to get myself a pair of boots that I could possibly use later with crampons, to do some glacier travel, etc.
I guess I'm wondering if hiking for 10-12 days in plastic boots on 80% rocky, 20% snow would be painful, and if I should just stick with good ol leather.
Thanks in advance for taking the time to read this and helping me out!
-Steve
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jtcronk
Mar 5, 2003, 4:07 PM
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It sounds like you're going to be better served by leather (or composite material) boots for this trip. Plastic boots will work, but they aren't the most comfortable thing to wear on anything but snow/ice.
If you really want to go plastic, I'd say try the Scarpa Alphas. They feel the most like leather when walking.
Good luck on your trip!
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snapier
Mar 5, 2003, 4:28 PM
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Yeah that was my concern with the plastics...that they would kill my feet on rocks and just regular walking/hiking.
I do need to get new boots though, and was looking to kill two birds with one stone. I should probably just get myself some good leathers and then get plastics if I start to do some serious ice/snow climbing/mountaineering...
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wishiwaswest
Mar 5, 2003, 4:48 PM
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I agree...leather or composite. I only use my plastics for HA and really cold temps now. I have a pair of La Sportiva Trangos and they're light, warm, flexible and crampon compatible. Used 'em on most of the Cascade volcanoes and been happy as a clam.
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tanner
Mar 5, 2003, 5:05 PM
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The scarpa manta m4's are realy nice. full leather full shank. compatible with all crampons. There nice to walk in, and the ridged sole will be nice on the rocks.
I'm ordering mine today. The reason I chase this boot is because I'll be using it for tree planting(all mannor or crazy terrain 10-12 hours a day) and for mountainering and a little ice climbing.
Try a pair on. There really nice
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snapier
Mar 5, 2003, 5:56 PM
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Wow! I got more response than I thought I would! Thanks to all for your help so far...
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scottharms
Mar 5, 2003, 9:35 PM
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I have a pair of la sportiva makalu's, they took a month or two to break in but have enjoyed them in all conditions. So far I've used them for everything. I haven't taken them on a long excursion but just for info, I was out a month ago climbing vertical ice in -25'C., the guys that I was climbing with had plastics and their feet were cold, my feet stayed relatively warm. If your looking to break into moutaineering as I am doing, leather first, then invest in plastic. Another boot to keep in high consideration is the scarpa cerro torre, they are nice and stiff for climbing or long excursions but also good for hiking(my climbing partner just bought a pair this summer, he loves them). One other one to look at is the Solomon Guide series, my wife just bought a pair of Guide Experts, another great all around mountain boot.
Hope that helps a little, I know what your goind through.
Cheers
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topramen
Mar 5, 2003, 10:24 PM
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I own both plastic and leather mountaineering boots and have been to the Alps. I strongly urge you to start off with a good pair of leather boots. They will be more than adequete for the Alps. La Sportiva Nepal extremes are one tough boot and provide enough warmth. Make sure to give yourself enough time to try and break them in if that is possible. Hardcore mountaineering boots are very stiff so sizing them correctly is very important. Get plastic boots later
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kcrag
Mar 5, 2003, 10:50 PM
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snapier,
If I were going on a climb as you described, I would probably get a pair of leather boots (yes, be sure to break them in) that are crampon compatable.
As for the Koflach Degre's, I bought a pair for ice climbing, but have used them more for long slogs. I have yet to have a problem with comfort or climbing on mixed terrain, and have trekked in them for up to 14 hours with no complaints. With ice, though, I do have a problem with my heel slipping up and have heard many other people who have these boots complain about the same thing. Still working on fixing the problem (which may be by investing in custom liners).
good luck, and enjoy the climb!
-kelly.
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michael crowder
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Mar 6, 2003, 2:47 PM
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i carried both plastics and leathers to the alps and ended up in the leathers everyday. if you are going to be in switzerland check out the indoor ice climbing park in saas-fee. it is the coolest thing i have ever seen. if you are going in the near future beware as they are having a huge snow year and the avalanche danger is out of hand. there is one good area near grindelwald that is generally of low avalanche danger and there is a trestle cut near st. nickolus that has climbing no matter how much snow has piled up.
i have my choice of boots and always end up in leathers if i am below 15,000 ft. higher than that and i always opt for the plastics. i like the koflac vario expe? and think they are the most comfortable plastics on the market. i have the start of an ice gear section on my website but haven't gotten to boots yet.
michael
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climbforchrist
Apr 11, 2003, 8:31 PM
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Registered: Apr 2, 2003
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hey
Honestly I Would not buy the khoflacs if ur only going to be on snow 25 percent of the time. I have a pair of khofs, and let me tell u even in snow they kinda get heavy and I find them to be uncomfortable and beefy, although they do keep your feet warm. Like the other posts, i think u should get a composite boot. La sportiva has some pretty good climbing boots that are suitable for ice climbing, yet decent for hiking. that are not has heavy as plastics. I Dont have the website on hand, but maybe u should check them out instead.
Touray
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mountrobson
Apr 11, 2003, 9:48 PM
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Chimin' in with another vote for leather. Almost everything I've climbed (not that much, really, but hey it's MY life!), I've done in leather boots.
CO 14'ers in winter -- leather
Liberty Ridge -- leather
WI to grade 4 -- leather
Gullies on Mt. Washington -- leather
Robson, EF Patterson, Assiniboine, etc in the C-Rockies -- leather
Pico de Orizaba (18,800') -- leather
I was in the same boat as you back in '95 when I was heading out for my first alpine experience (1st trip up Orizaba). Went out and bought some plastic boots for the trip -- didn't know any better, really. As the years went by and I got a bit of experience, I started using my leathers for just about everything. I occasionaly use my plastics on near zero-approach ice, but usually end up wishing I had my leathers on!
Funny, most folks' "suggestion" as to which boot to buy is based on what they happen to have. Few climbers can afford several pairs of boots to really be able to compare. I'm no different! I have the Scarpa Freney's. Absolutely love them. Banged the front bail a bit on my BD Sabertooths and the asymmetrical shape is really sweet on rock. When these wear out, I'm sure I'll buy some more! Well, that's my dos pesos...
bw
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pbjosh
Apr 11, 2003, 10:22 PM
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Registered: Mar 22, 2002
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Here's my rundown of what I use when:
Ice and mixed climbing - lightest, stiffest, most nimble leather I can find.
Sierra couloirs - leather
US mountaineering - leather
Mexico - wore my plastic, shoulda worn my leather
South America to 6000m+ - plastic on the bigger colder peaks, as it can be quite cold. For the smaller peaks I wished I had my leather boots.
josh
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emelia
Apr 14, 2003, 1:28 PM
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Registered: Mar 28, 2003
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Whatever boots you decide on, the most important thing is COMFORT and FIT. There are many great products out there, but you have to find the ones that are not gonna hassle you on the mountain. There is nothing worse than realizing part way into a climb that you are in agony. You are then done for. I know people who have been forced to turn back on major climbs due to boot discomfort. I wear Koflach plastics and La Sportiva leathers/composites because they are the only one's that fit my feet properly.
I agree about the plastics vs. leather issue. Go for leather, only using plastic when there is a chance of your feet getting cold. That's the only reason you need them. But also remember that some people's feet get cold at 10,000 feet and some not until much higher. It obviously depends on snow, ice and altitude and how your body reacts. I have cold extremeties and have had frost-bite on fingers and toes in the past. I find my hands and feet get cold much sooner than others I climb with.
Know thyself!!! Act and purchase accordingly.
LOL...Edited 'cause I just noticed this person posted almost a year ago!!!! Been there done that I guess....so what did you end up getting????
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punk
Apr 14, 2003, 1:37 PM
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Registered: May 28, 2002
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Dittos to Pbjosh just will say I will lower the altitude to 5000m-5500m it is all depending on how fast u get cold feet :wink:
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beyond_gravity
May 10, 2003, 2:53 PM
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I have the Asolo MTF 600. They aqre great because they have a rear crampon welt. It's pretty easy to modify step-in crampons to fit the boots. They would also work perfectly with the Camp LC40 crampons.
The boots are also great for heavy backpack and offtrail hiking (They bend!)
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pico23
May 13, 2003, 9:04 PM
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In reply to: I guess I'm wondering if hiking for 10-12 days in plastic boots on 80% rocky, 20% snow would be painful, and if I should just stick with good ol leather. Thanks in advance for taking the time to read this and helping me out! -Steve
You'll be miserable in plastics. The Degree is anything but comfy for hiking. If you were going to be climbing a plastic would be ok but they just aren't suited for hiking or moderate scrambling. And I would think the insulation would be total overkill.
Look at any of the lighter weight leather mountain boots. You probably don't need insulation but sportiva makes a few models that have both insulation and without. I like my Makalus (uninsulated but there is a inuslated version) for what you are doing but they fit my feet well. They have a little flex and are stiff enough for some front pointing. I find they climb well enough on rock for me to follow up to 5.8 in them some people think they are a terrible rock boot. I think something like the Nepal Extreme (or similar boots in other brands) might be too much for what you want. My only real complaint about the Makalu is they don't tend to be really waterproof unless you treat them often and even then it's a gamble. The other thing is when they get wet it takes a while to dry out if it isn't dry out. And finally the midsole has no padding. After a couple of thousand foot descent you feet will hurt without a good insole in there. Overall they are bomber boots that can do almost anything. They now make a newer model of the Makalu called the Glacier which seems a little less suited for climbing but looks pretty nice. The Sportiva Eiger also would be a good boot but it has a super high ankle that would make it less usable for all around use.
Alternate brands to look at are salomon which makes some nice hybrid crampon compatable boots. Scarpa. The Freney is a nice insulated boot that climbs really well with or without crampons but fits really narrow (which means it fits me well). I'm probably going to get the Freney next winter for my leather climbing boot. The Technica T-Rock also looks like a boot that would suit you needs for technical scrambling and climbing and even some summer snow and ice fields.
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