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summit_plumit
Dec 5, 2004, 6:18 AM
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I've been rock climbing for a few years now and I really want to try ice climbing this winter. I want to learn to do it at the same place I learned to rock climb but my parents are straight out refusing to let me do it, they say it's too dangerous. So I have two questions 1) did anyone else go through this with their parents? 2) How do I convince them to let me try it?
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saskclimber
Dec 5, 2004, 6:22 AM
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how about take them with you so they can check it out? or get them climbing lessons so they wanna go too :P
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holdplease2
Dec 5, 2004, 6:28 AM
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Start by not telling them your username...
;)
I don't Ice climb, so I can't help with that but...
My parents used to really resist my rock climbing and aid climbing. However, I took the time to show them pictures (which made them cringe at first) and showed them the gear and talked about redundant safety systems. I showed them sections of books as well.
Understanding improves comfort level.
One time after I climbed a bigwall for a few weeks, my father told me that I left a topo at home.
I said "don't worry dad, I had several copies, I didn't need that one."
He said, "no, actually, when you called (twice for weather reports) we looked at the map and tracked your progress" We were really happy when you got to the nice ledge."
If my mom, a 65 year old woman in Indiana, can understand Supertopos...anyone can!
How sweet is that?
Sorry for the story, another wasted Friday night, I guess.
-Kate.
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changling
Dec 5, 2004, 6:40 AM
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In reply to: 1) did anyone else go through this with their parents? 2) How do I convince them to let me try it?
1. My parents were very concerned and still are (at a lesser extent) everytime I go. They still prefer that I don't climb.
2. I didn't need to convince them because I would go whether they liked it or not, but just to sweeten the deal, I told them I would be miserable, pouty, and an outright pain in the ass if they prevented me from going. I also explained the safety precautions that I take, so that they can relax a bit.
(Note: My parents are actually proud that I can go out and do this stuff. They just don't want to admit it.)
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monkeyarm
Dec 5, 2004, 8:06 AM
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get statistics that compare the rate and severity of ice climbing injuries to car crashes and other daily events, then get a couple videos of it for them to watch since their idea of ice climbing probably comes from bad hollywood movies
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kman
Dec 5, 2004, 2:44 PM
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In reply to: but my parents are straight out refusing to let me do it, they say it's too dangerous.
No denying that it's not a safe thing to do.
In reply to: then get a couple videos of it for them to watch since their idea of ice climbing probably comes from bad hollywood movies
There's one called On Ice. Don't get that one :lol: . It shows one guy almost get speared in the eye with an icicle. The same guy pulls off a HUGE chunk of ice. It shows another shot of one girl almost knock her belayer with a chunk of ice. In another shot it shows a belayer get pummeled by falling ice. Then there's the rockfall footage from Patagonia. Nope, don't show them an ice climbing video. You'll turn them into a nervous wreck :lol:
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moroneyp
Dec 5, 2004, 2:49 PM
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i think the best idea would be to take them with you when you're learning to ice-climb and let them see all the safety precautions that are being taken.
When i started climbing, my parents hated the idea but the came to accept it when i explained all the safety gear, and told them all the different safety things that i was taught when learning!!
So the best option is probably to just explain it all to them!!
And if they still dont let you, just go and do it anyway... :wink:
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euroford
Dec 5, 2004, 3:02 PM
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i don't think there is really any way you can convince a 'normal' person that ice climbing is a safe and reasonable thing to do. i don't tell my wife that it is, i think that woulkd be basicly lying. what i do tell her is that i plan to mitigate risks by climbing only under good conditions, by wearing my helmet and by practicing good pro/belay techniques. this stuff is dangerous as all hell, but thats not why i do it, i do it becouse its fun, and ending up dead/crippled ain't fun so you go about your activity mitigating these risks as much as possable.
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rossgoddard
Dec 6, 2004, 12:56 AM
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im 17 and have been climbing ice seriously for two years. I was on a family ski trip towards the beginning of my ice climbing, and wanted to go to ouray. My dad went along, and i convinced him to try climbing ice. After a few laps on TR, he figured out that it wasnt that bad. he understands that it is dangerous, but he also knows that driving a car is extremely dangerous. Him climbing really put things in perspective for him. I also find its extremely helpful to go over what you are going to do with your parents before you go out. I dont need to tell them if im toproping anymore, but if I am going to go on a longer climb, i usually hash out the logistics with them the night before.
good luck
-harrison
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kman
Dec 6, 2004, 3:03 AM
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In reply to: take them with you when you're learning to ice-climb and let them see all the safety precautions that are being taken
...and show them all the falling ice that has the potential to f you up.
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robfromport
Dec 6, 2004, 3:17 AM
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one word: emancipation.
seriously though - top-roping on ice is pretty safe. convince your parents of this. then hide your ice-screws at you friends house.
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metrogroaz
Dec 6, 2004, 4:09 AM
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Just tell them where you you are, when youll get back, and that if they do not hear back back from you by some time, to call the areas rescue service. They should just alert the service that you havent gotten back and if they could check. Then everythings good.
Well unless you went climbing for a few days got back and decided to booze it up and forgot to call, and your parents freaked out leaving 12 voicemails.
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sandbag
Dec 6, 2004, 5:16 AM
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In reply to: get statistics that compare the rate and severity of ice climbing injuries to car crashes and other daily events, then get a couple videos of it for them to watch since their idea of ice climbing probably comes from bad hollywood movies
Actually dont do this. The per capita incidence of injuries due to motor vehicle accidents vs ice climbing is a bad idea. There arent enough ice climbers to get good odds, and its just more dangerous period. I liken ice climbing to flying, and or riding a motorcycle. It requires full participation and concentration and solid understanding not only of yourself, but also of your equipment, your surroundings, and your contingency strategies to avoid dying. But Like some mentioned earlier in the post, show them how much you understand and teach them so they arent frightened by their own ignorance to what it is you really enjoy doing. good luck
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static_endurance
Dec 6, 2004, 6:40 AM
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I know exactly where you're coming from. My dad told me he'd rather me go basejumping than ice climbing, which i rather intend to take him up on. But he knows i'm responsible and that i can recognize dangers and take care of myself, so he's slowly letting up on it.
I think the best thing to do is to show them that you know about ice climbing and that it's not just a fleeting thought of ice. Do some research and wow them with your knowledge. They might feel more comfortable with it if you show that you're not going to go out and get caught in any terrible situations.
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monkeyarm
Dec 6, 2004, 8:20 AM
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sandbag wrote:
In reply to: Actually dont do this. The per capita incidence of injuries due to motor vehicle accidents vs ice climbing is a bad idea. There arent enough ice climbers to get good odds, and its just more dangerous period.
I never said use per capita statistics, you can make stats do whatever you want them to do.
"http://www.bml.umn.edu/~peter/climbing/ANAM/ANAM.html"
go there and click on terrain, now you have just implied that rock climbing is more dangerous than ice climbing.
you don't need to show them
"http://www.drugtext.org/library/articles/newcombe.htm"
which states " The highest two levels of risk – maximum risk (AMR of up to one in one) and extremely high risk (midpoint AMR of one in ten) are largely theoretical categories (Levels 0 and 1), except for the risks posed by some surgical operations. Level 2 – very high risk – corresponds to a midpoint AMR of one in 100, and includes tobacco smoking, methadone use, and drug injecting; with comparable risks presented only by such dangerous sports as mountain climbing, common fatal diseases such as cancer, and working in space or at sea."
find states that imply ice climbing is safe. if cigarette companies can pull out stats that imply cigarettes save the lives of baby angels than you can find stats that support climbing, just because it won't holdup in court doesn't mean it won't help your stance with your parents.
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iclimbtoo
Dec 6, 2004, 8:32 AM
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WHAT!? Dude, don't convice them...just f@cking go and tell them about it when you get back...leave a note to tell them where you went...hehe, that's what I would do...
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paulraphael
Dec 6, 2004, 8:07 PM
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If you must convince them, you can always tell them that since you started climbing you hardly ever use cocaine or go whoring anymore.
Or, you can do what I did to pacify a hysterical girlfriend: I made her watch the Jeff Lowe ice climbing videos.
Jeff is so mellow and so grandfatherly in the way he narrates, that I'm convinced it would be impossible for anyone to be scared of anything he talks about. His tone reminds me of the tour guide at the Box Factory on the Simpsons.
The following is a dramatization: Please imagine this with a slow, deep, monotone voice, one that has just a hint of western twang:
"Now that we have our leashes adjusted to just the right length, I invite you to look up over my left shoulder to the saddle between the main peak and the sub peak. That wall of snow you might see heading our way is a phenomenon we ice climbers often refer to as a 'slab avalanche.' There are many, many ways of dealing with a slab avalanche, all which I will explore in depth on Tape 7 of this series. But for right now I think the prudent course of action would be to set down our gear over there in that cul-de-sac, and just start running. It can be a little tricky to run at full speed with plastic boots and crampons, so I'm going to show you the way I like to do it ... "
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euroford
Dec 6, 2004, 8:21 PM
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lol. thats awsome.
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asandh
Dec 6, 2004, 8:24 PM
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:shock:
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slobmonster
Dec 6, 2004, 8:40 PM
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How old are you? This might be fairly significant.
I think it would help if your parents had the opportunity to talk to someone knowledgable, calm, and helpful. When I was guiding ice every day I had to fill this role on many mornings, when some mom or dad was dropping off their eager, pimply teenager for a day out.
Ice climbing can be very, very safe. This is the traditional in which you'll want to learn. Another way of putting this is that you should slowly, conservatively, and humbly aspire to learn the art of judgement, so that it is at least commensurate with whatever technical and athletic skills you've acquired. You must acknowledge that there is risk involved, and you must do your best to spend the least amount of time in risky spots.
Find a good, patient guide (if you have the $, otherwise find yourself a "mentor"). Come prepared with a good positive attitude, lots of questions, and an ability and willingness to simply listen to the advice you're given, and adapt yourself accordingly. Do your research, by all means, but don't get stuck in some academic argument about some inane detail with your instructor/mentor/guide, as this will try her patience.
Have fun. If it isn't fun, especially at first, re-orient your priorities.
And in the meantime:
Go get a job roofing (asphalt), learn to swing a hammer with both hands. Start accumulating a small collection of gloves, from cheap to fancy-dancy. Learn how to stay warm when you're standing in one place for an hour (this is key). Beg, borrow, or steal a Big Fat Insulated Parka. Get a thermos.
You can have your parents email me with any questions, if you like, or feel free to do so yourself.
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angelaa
Dec 6, 2004, 10:40 PM
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With my parents, the more I tell them the more paranoid they get . . . . which is sad b/c I help teach rock climbing for the University in town . . . you'd think if the state trusts me . . . my parents would.
I brought my ice climbing equipment over to show them - to assure them that I was going to be safe. . . my mom just looked at my dad and asked him if I'd asked his permission to go iceclimbing, b/c I sure didn't ask hers.
since you're still under their jurisdiction, you may just have to put off ice climbing until you're older. :cry:
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akicebum
Dec 7, 2004, 1:17 AM
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Beg/Borrow/Steal and go climb ice if you want to. My mother is hysterical when it comes to my climbing. I went cragging a few days before I was leaving for a two month trip and my mom saw my rack as I was walking out she gave me the "oh god be careful!" I have been climbing for over 6 years and have climbed all over Alaska, Canada, US, and in the Himalayas, and I still get that crap. Believe me ignorance is bliss and if you care about your psycho parents just let them be in the dark. If they start thinking something is up they will no doubt be pleased to find that you have been sneaking out to climb rather than doing drugs or whatever else. But yeah, keep them in the dark and try to hide any material that even suggests free soloing. Good luck and I hope you get out this year, be safe you are probably still on their insurance :twisted:
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holdplease2
Dec 7, 2004, 1:44 AM
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Paulraphael! A golden trophy for you, I love the "tape 7 in this series" and the "so I'm going to show you the way I like to do it" bits, very nice.
:lol: :lol:
-Kate.
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nrvna963
Dec 7, 2004, 1:59 AM
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don't tell them what your doing
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