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timsesink
Feb 18, 2005, 8:42 PM
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I bought some Austral biners which are quite cheap and was flipping through the Metoloius catalogue when I realized that they are exactly the smae (x comps and D lockers) but Metolious's stuff is twice the price!!!!!! I've lost all respect for Metoloius as its proven now that you're paying for the name only!!!
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crag_shwagger
Feb 18, 2005, 8:47 PM
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Good call! love supporting GOOD generic brands...what the url?
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johnathon78
Feb 18, 2005, 8:55 PM
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I own some metolius draws and am very satisfied with their quality ( just like everything alse they sell ). Although, they are pricey! The Austri Alpin draws do look and am sure they act the same. As long as they are CE certified, they can pull walls!
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tammarak
Feb 18, 2005, 9:37 PM
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Yeah - I noticed the same thing! The lockers and regular gates are identical, anodization and engravings aside. Astral have way cheaper prices on the same gear. However - I wouldn't be to quick to chalk it all up to greed. Although this is a good point about mark-up, there could be other reasons behind the price discrepancy. This means, DON'T buy metolius biners, unless you like paying more for pretty colours and racing stripes. If you're satisfied with Metolius biners - buy astral for much less. This should raise flags, but by no means condone all Metolius products. The alluminum in there cams is quality, their hardware shapes are novel and their safe tech harnesses and slings are a tribute to safer climbing! All that aside, an excellent point to raise.
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bubba
Feb 18, 2005, 10:30 PM
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In reply to: I bought some Austral biners which are quite cheap and was flipping through the Metoloius catalogue when I realized that they are exactly the smae (x comps and D lockers) but Metolious's stuff is twice the price!!!!!! I've lost all respect for Metoloius as its proven now that you're paying for the name only!!!
You're not thinking of "Lucky" biners are you? I know that they look exactly the same as the Metolius.
I was under the impression that Austialpin had a very distinct look... and I thought they were fairly pricey when I last saw them in-store.
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c-money
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Feb 18, 2005, 11:31 PM
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In reply to: I bought some Austral biners which are quite cheap and was flipping through the Metoloius catalogue when I realized that they are exactly the smae (x comps and D lockers) but Metolious's stuff is twice the price!!!!!! I've lost all respect for Metoloius as its proven now that you're paying for the name only!!!
I am not so sure about them being the same. You can not always tell from a picture of a carabiner in a catalogue if it is the same as the one in your hand.... I am with Bubba in that I always thought that the Metolius biners were "Lucky" biners.
I have some Austral Alpine biners and they are very different from the Metolius biners that I have (but maybe I am not comparing the same biners you are).
I think you should maybe take a closer look before ranting about losing all respect for Metolius.
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bubba
Feb 19, 2005, 12:41 AM
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Metolius make fine products. But I wouldn't buy their 'biners because I'm cheap... And there is an inexpensive alternative. Lucky. All my first quickdraws were by Lucky. They work just fine.
Austrialpin:
http://www.jeejo.com.au/images/austri/easy%20classic%20stg%20pol.jpg
http://Metolius:http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/images/xcompstraight_white.jpg
http://Lucky:http://images.mec.ca/media/Images/Products/Climbing/4017360s.jpg
http://No?
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wlderdude
Feb 19, 2005, 5:57 AM
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I don't see why you would loose respect for a company becuase they sell gear someone else made. Not many companies make everything they sell.
The economics of the climbing gear are different in the US than Europe. Don't get all huffy becuase the Europeans are paying less for carabiners than you are. Do you know how much they pay for gas?
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gunksgoer
Feb 19, 2005, 7:20 AM
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yeah guys dont go ranting about metolius this and blah blah blah...
lots of other companies buy and remark gear. for example; the old model trango flexcams (not sure about the new) are just remarked cams from the czech republic.
this thing about the biners seems especially dumb since we dont even know if they are the same. with the hundreds of biners on the market there are bound to be ones that look really similair. i like metolius, they seem like a good company, and i have had good experiences with their gear.
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anykineclimb
Feb 19, 2005, 9:42 AM
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Metolius admits to using Lucky for their biners so its not a huge shock. their Ice tools are even Lucky tools
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jimdavis
Feb 19, 2005, 8:45 PM
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In reply to: Metolius admits to using Lucky for their biners so its not a huge shock. their Ice tools are even Lucky tools
Metolius...ice tools...am I missing something here, or do they not, nor have they ever, made ice tools?
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taraus_de_bull
Feb 19, 2005, 9:01 PM
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As someone said, you have to remember European markets are way different then US markets. climbing is alot more popular in Europe and so more gear is sold. Bigger market means companies don't need to make large profits off products.
also, your bashing a company because they sell one product for more then someone else? if thats the case, you must be ready to burn down North Face stores.
also, think of where that profit goes? goes to Product research, pro athletes, comps, charities and to pay employees & owner. Its not like the owner of melolius is driving around in ferrai or something.
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moondog
Feb 20, 2005, 8:04 AM
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huh. you guys are all missing out if you haven't tried "Sam's Choice" 'biners! 8^)
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coldclimb
Feb 20, 2005, 9:06 AM
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Meh. I've been to the Metolius factory and met a couple of people who work there. I've got more respect for them, even if just because I've talked to them. Biners are cheap anyway. ;)
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anykineclimb
Feb 20, 2005, 9:43 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Metolius admits to using Lucky for their biners so its not a huge shock. their Ice tools are even Lucky tools Metolius...ice tools...am I missing something here, or do they not, nor have they ever, made ice tools?
I don't think they're selling them anymore but the did a couple years ago:
http://www.outdoorreview.com/...S_2970_91_50crx.aspx
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chibispridel
Feb 20, 2005, 10:27 AM
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Taraus,
Good point. The circumstances of the equipment (carabiners in this case) is not necessarily known. The non-metolius may be the result of an agreement between them and metolius.
To draw a parallel in another sport (mtb), Ritchey has a line pedals. He doesn't manufacture them himself, he outsources to a company. The agreement (from what I can tell) is that the outsource company can make the pedal a year or two later under a different name.
Thus the Ritchey pedals are more (possibly due to name, r&d, design, etc), and the outsource company reaps the benefits of all that afterwards by selling a generic and cheaper pedal that is much the same (maybe even slightly improved upon).
So...for climbers it's just a win-win situation. We get metolius designing, or bring to market a product, and afterwards the outsource company giving us a similar or same product for cheaper.
Don't see a big deal in all this. It happens all the time in every sport and beyond.
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anykineclimb
Feb 20, 2005, 10:59 AM
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A better example, using the mountain bike analogy, is that between Haro and Intense.
Most people in the mountain bike world are familiar with the Intense M1 Downhill bike. A few years ago, Haro had a DH team, but rode relabeled Intense bikes. Haro actually sells this model under their name and model although the bike is made by Intense. Its just a relabeled product already being produced by another company.
Lucky ("Loo-Key"), a Spanish company, hardly has a market in the US. I don't see the big deal in Metolius paying them to produce gear instead of Metolius having to spend money designing the gear and on a entire plant. Lucky makes money off Metolius and they make money off those who buy the biners.
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timsesink
Feb 21, 2005, 3:47 AM
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Metolious is a great company but it seems a little ludicrous to go to MEC and see 2 biners exactly he same and one almost 2x the price. I have no doubt that Met. is a quality company but the price ddiffence for the same peice(yes I have checked in person) seems out of place.
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tattooed_climber
Feb 21, 2005, 3:57 AM
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metolius owns Austral.....
all the biners are made in the same factory too...
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