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mwarnick1
Mar 2, 2005, 8:52 PM
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Hi,
From doing searches on this site I can see this question has been asked a hundred times before in slightly different ways: where should we move?
We've narrowed our choices down to two areas: the Telluride area and the Black Hills/Needles area.
Which is a better place to live for rock climbing?
Here are the parameters in no particular order:
- multi-pitch trad (primarily) and sport climbing
- as rural as possible
- years worth of climbing and as uncrowded as possible
- we'll be telecommuting back to Alaska so we can live anywhere we can arrange network connectivity
- a decent high school for our son
- Some states like NY and California are completely out of the question due to extreme gun laws (we're also competitive shooters).
Is Telluride mostly sandstone climbing? That could be the big turn off with Telluride if it's true.
If we should consider any other areas please let me know.
I would very much appreciate any help in making this decision. If anyone needs info on Alaska feel free to contact me.
Thank you,
Matt
matt_warnick@hotmail.com
Chugiak, Alaska (for now anyway)
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mack_north
Mar 2, 2005, 9:05 PM
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I vote Bozeman. Lots of multipitch and stuff to shoot at and still hanging on to the rural charm. Rumor is they might be opening a new high school. Not much sport climbing though. If you want more rural, go over the pass to Livingston where the housing is cheaper. Montana rules - you can be driving down the highway with a cocktail and a 17 year old girl and a handgun on your dashboard and not be breaking any laws.
The Black Hills are a beautiful place but too many billboards and it gets hot and filled with RVs in the summer. Don't know about Telluride but I hear Oprah's place is for sale.
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telluryan
Mar 2, 2005, 9:22 PM
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i just sent you an email. Contact me if you like.
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mwarnick1
Mar 2, 2005, 9:23 PM
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We've considered Montana but haven't been able to find much information on rock climbing there. Trad climbing is our first choice so the lack of sport climbing is okay with us.
Can anyone point me toward information on climbing areas in Montana? A lot we found seemed to be alpine routes with multi-mile approaches. It sounds lame but we're looking for easier access than that.
Thanks for taking the time to help,
Matt
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lehmkuhler
Mar 2, 2005, 9:26 PM
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If climbing is your passion and you want rural area with no gun control problems... look at Lander Wyoming. One of the best climbing communities I've seen. Limestone sport (Sinks Canyon, Wild Iris), Sandstone (Sinks Canyon) and Granite (the Winds, Lankin Dome). Lots of people climbing 5.11-5.13. Year round climbing (yes all 12 months and most can be done in t-shirt) for sport routes, and the Wind River mountains are in the back yard with the best granite in the best setting you'll ever care to see. More climbing here than you could do in a lifetime. Devils Tower, Needles, SLC climbing, Moab, RMNP are all potential weekend trips from here. Tetons and J Hole are only 2.5-3 hours away. We get climbers from Jackson and SLC, and some from Front Range, all winter long when there's little climbing opportunities anywhere else.
Of course, I am a bit biased...:) It doesn't get much more rural than central Wyoming. Cost of living is still very good for a mountain town (because we don't have a ski area).
Telluride: if you're not a big time skiier, why put up with the $ to live there.
Black Hills: very good, but not very rural... Interstate 90...
Lehmkuhler
Oh yeah, the tough part of Lander is making a living here... If the economy would support it, there would be 30,000 people here instead of under 10,000. Awesome area.
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cragb
Mar 2, 2005, 9:30 PM
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I was just in Telluride last weekend and damn is that place beautiful.... the kid in the coffeshop was payin $1200/month for a one bedroom though!!!.. I'd find a place equally beautiful but with real estate that wasn't astronomical - Flagstaff in AZ is full of great climbing, the San Fran Peaks are gorgeous and the weather is cooperative... If Telluride is what you're after we checked out this spec house down valley in Placerville(just outside of telly) that was built with solar power and runs off the grid with solar - place was a beautiful 2500 sq. foot eco-design with all the bells and whistles for a cool million.. check it out. Personally Colorado offers more in terms of variety of recreation, snow sports, mountain biking, hiking and climbing all over the place in the San Juan mts... good luck in your search!
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climbhoser
Mar 2, 2005, 9:34 PM
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Telluride is a lot like Bozeman in that the best stuff is alpine trad routes with multi-mile approaches EXCEPT for the Ophir wall. The Ophir wall has barely been tapped into (though what is there is beyond comprehensible) and it's just an amazing 1,000 foot trad playground. There are lots of crags, tons of granite, sandstone, Shist, Gneiss and others.
The Black Hills are ok, but I think the climbing there is much more limited. Devil's Tower is the closest big thing, and can be fun, but I would vote for T-Ride.
In Bozeman there is a plethora of towers, small walls and alpine trad stuff nearby.
Check out Tim Toula's book "Rock & Road" to really see what is offered in each place.
Overall I'd pick Bozeman or T-Ride far before the Black Hills, and Bozeman before T-ride just because I abhor the snotty culture growing on T-Ride and love the lax laws and culture of Montana.
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angelaa
Mar 2, 2005, 10:42 PM
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Well - since no one is supporting the Black Hills :x . . . I'LL DO IT! (gladly) :wink:
I would move to the hills in a heart beat, :? if I could make ends meat. The area is so seasonal you have to have a summer and a winter job!
BUT - If your telecommuting anyway- perfect!
If you want rural you can get GREAT deals on homes if you check out some of the old mining towns (the mines have left and the towns are nearly deserted) - if you don't mind a commute for your son to highschool or to groceries.
Or if that is too rural for you - there is always Rapid City :wink:
Anyway - you are surrounded by more climbing than you could do in a life time -
Trad - scary Trad - Sport - Bouldering!
Granite - Sandstone - and whatever the scientists say Devils Tower is made out of this week!
AND FROM WHAT I HEAR - a Great climbing community!
Check out
http://www.climbingblackhills.com
or check out our website for photos.
http://www.teamarp.com/...ls/Black%20Hills.htm
If you need to know any more. . . PM me ! I don't live there, but I have spent time in the Hills every year for the last 10 and I have family up there! 8^)
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angelaa
Mar 2, 2005, 10:46 PM
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Well - since no one is supporting the Black Hills :x . . . I'LL DO IT! (gladly) :wink:
I would move to the hills in a heart beat, :? if I could make ends meat. The area is so seasonal you have to have a summer and a winter job!
BUT - If your telecommuting anyway- perfect!
If you want rural you can get GREAT deals on homes if you check out some of the old mining towns (the mines have left and the towns are nearly deserted) - if you don't mind a commute for your son to highschool or to groceries.
Or if that is too rural for you - there is always Rapid City :wink:
Anyway - you are surrounded by more climbing than you could do in a life time -
Trad - scary Trad - Sport - Bouldering!
Granite - Sandstone - and whatever the scientists say Devils Tower is made out of this week!
AND FROM WHAT I HEAR - a Great climbing community!
Check out
http://www.climbingblackhills.com
or check out our website for photos.
http://www.teamarp.com/...ls/Black%20Hills.htm
If you need to know any more. . . PM me ! I don't live there, but I have spent time in the Hills every year for the last 10 and I have family up there! 8^)
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kpj240789
Mar 2, 2005, 10:51 PM
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Can't beat the needles. Relatively few climbers great climbing.
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lordshockspeare
Mar 2, 2005, 10:56 PM
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Don't know much about black hills...
But from what I know about Telluride is that you'd be hard pressed to find any property there that's reasonably affordable by non-multimillionaires. The majority of the folks there have lots of money and second homes.
But if you can afford it Telluride is awesome. Ohir wall is way underdeveloped and host to inumerable potential lines. Even in the last couple years there has been a surprisingly large amount of development in the crags around there. I especially like the conglomerate boulders and routes around the Falls at the end of the box canyon.
Hope that helps
Kyle
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mwarnick1
Mar 3, 2005, 12:23 AM
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Telluride definitely is more expensive. That's one of the leading downfalls from our perspective but people are moving there for a reason. We were thinking about Norwood as a less expensive and more rural alternative.
We have enough time to plan two trips this summer to different possible locations. We'll research Wyoming and Montana further. Lander sounds very interesting.
How much of the climbing around Telluride is sandstone? I'm not sure how much time we'd want to spend leading on sandstone but then again we've never tried it....
It looks like it's coming down to personal preference so we'll need to visit some sites.
As for Rapid City - WAY too big. We were thinking about Custer or smaller? Any suggestions?
I appreciate everyone's help. I still can't believe this opportunity has come true. Having not rock climbed in 6 years I can't wait!
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slobmonster
Mar 3, 2005, 3:25 AM
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What I wouldn't give to have the opportunity to make such a choice...
I gathered from your post that you did not mean Telluride *exactly*, but had more in mind the communites nearby. Having lived in Happy Valley for several years I can certainly see the attraction. However, the median real estate transaction last year was somewhere around $940,000. For me, realizing that I would never own a house in town meant that I would never really be able to live there.
I have some friends in Norwood, and they love it... lots of open space. One good friend from college has thirty five acres to make a brilliant halo around his yurt. The climate is wonderful (though HOT in the winter down there in the flats), and he's off the grid. The school i Norwood got some national press last month when the principal softened enough to censor a book from the reading list, and then gave the books to some local (ahem) "acitvists," who bruned them. He is contrite now. Do a little research for the whole story.
Numerous friends in Ridgway, which is quickly becoming gentrified. Really nice spot.
Okay, climbing:
Ophir Wall, though "underdeveloped," is serious shizzle. Some great routes on rock that is certainly not sandstone.
Unaweep Canyon has some nice granite routes, as does the Black. Backcountry routes in the grenadiers are legendary.
As for your opinion of sandstone, you may be lucky, as if you pick the Colorado Plateau you will find some of the best sandstone anywhere, and learn that there is a wide range in sandstone quality. Indian Creek --Wingate-- is two and a half hours away.
Go for a visit. You'll have fun regardless.
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mwarnick1
Mar 3, 2005, 7:03 PM
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Thank you all for your help. You've helped point us in the right direction for more reserach.
Lander is starting to sound better and better. After not hitting the rock for 6 years though I have to ask one question...
Is there much moderate climbing there or is it generally paradise if you're climbing 5.11's and up?
Thank you,
Matt
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roambb1
Mar 3, 2005, 7:46 PM
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As a disclaimer, I am stuck in Washington DC... But...
Since you are telecomuting... Lander would be incredible. The wind river range alone has a lifetime of climbing. Check out the Cirque of Towers, especially Pingora and almost any surrounding peak. It is a strenous hike to get in, but so worth it. Loads of alpine, multi-pitch, moderate trad routes. It is absolutely beautiful. Lander seemed to be a really cool, small town, with a good feel. And, as mentioned earlier, you are close to a lot of other big climbing areas as well.
Doesn't seem that you can lose though. Congrats on the opportunity.
BB
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angelaa
Mar 3, 2005, 10:33 PM
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In reply to: As for Rapid City - WAY too big. We were thinking about Custer or smaller? Any suggestions?
Custer is a GREAT place to live -that is where my brother-in-law and his wife live.
Very quiet town (unless it's Sturgis Season :? ) but out of all the places I'd live in the hills - Custer is at the top of my list! But then it probably is at the top of everyone's list - who's moving to the hills! Custer is GREAT! Great climbing all around!
just my 2 cents, - but I love the hills and I would think if you wanted a small town feel - Custer is the way to go!
but then Telluride is right next to Ouray - another of my favorite small towns!!! :lol:
Angela
--------------------------
"Everybody in outer space looks like Elvis. Cause Elvis is a perfect being.
We are all moving in perfect peace and harmony, towards Elvisness."
--- Mojo Nixon
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glanzer77
Mar 3, 2005, 10:57 PM
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Don't come to S.D. We like to keep our Paha Sapha a secret!!! Might be the least climbed area in the states...but don't tell.
You want a remote setting look up Buffalo, S.D. on your Rand McNally!
Naw...you are more than welcome to the Dakota.
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kpalsson
Mar 4, 2005, 12:10 PM
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I'll second votes for the Hills, Custer is lovely. sturgis is only for a couple weeks a year.
I'll also second Bozeman. Gorgeous town. bucketloads of climbing. Just that a lot of it is local crags. From custer you've got the hills, the tower, and vedauwoo pretty close.
But really, if you want rural, lots of climbing, and you're WFH, then I'd pick just about anywhere in wyoming. Puts you within driving range of a hell of a lot of classic rock
In fact, they should really just do a bit of border expansion. Get all of yellowstone like it was always meant to, grab Bozeman, grab the black hills. Turn the dakota's back into the flat land they were always meant to be, and make Wyoming the greatest land on earth.
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lehmkuhler
Mar 9, 2005, 11:40 PM
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Wyoming already IS the greatest land on earth... :D
Lehmkuhler
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