|
|
|
|
hassan
Jun 23, 2002, 4:35 PM
Post #1 of 17
(10117 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 19, 2002
Posts: 12
|
Yesterday I tried to climb a 5.11d route on Indian Rock in Saratoga, CA. It was my first ever 5.11. First I tried to lead it ! Got stuck completely half way (actually the first half was rated as 5.11a). Then somehow (not following the route ) I reached the top and put an achor there and then attempted top roping. Still no success. And the worst part is I still have zero ideas how could it be climbed. (If someone knows about it I am talking about 'Krokus' on the North face of Indian rock, bay area , Saratoga, CA).
The 5.11d part has virtually nothing to hold onto for atleast 15-17ft and only a running edge that too on your very left !
Can someone who has done that climb comment on it...is it really 5.11d ? Looks higher to me. Did you use the running edge on your left ? Sorry for such a specific posting...but that 5.11d just looks totally above my abilities...and I want some info/comments on it.
|
|
|
|
|
jono13
Jun 23, 2002, 5:23 PM
Post #2 of 17
(10117 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 10, 2001
Posts: 3286
|
well i myself wouldnt try an 11d first, thats close to 5.12 dude! i would try like an 11a or b, im not a strong ass 11 climber yet, but that would be my advice. good luck!
jono
|
|
|
|
|
dsafanda
Jun 23, 2002, 5:46 PM
Post #3 of 17
(10117 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2002
Posts: 1025
|
I know the route you are talking about. I lead it years ago but not clean...I think I hung one or twice. I thought it was hard but I think 11d is a very fair rating. I certainly don't remember it well enough to give you move by move beta though. I rember off balance moves on an arete.
jono13 is right though. What are you doing trying to climb an 11d before ticking lots and lots of 11a and 11b climbs? The letter grades are supposed to be exponentail in terms of how they increase. In other words, the difference between an 11a and an 11b is supposed to be the same jump in difficulty as that between a 5.9 and a 5.10. In other words you're trying to climb 4 or 5 grades above your best redpoint! More power to you if you send but you might want to mix in some climbs closer to your redpoint ability.
If you want to keep trying 11d's though you should try Clamydia. That's another fun one at Castle Rock(Flalls area).
|
|
|
|
|
hassan
Jun 24, 2002, 1:35 AM
Post #4 of 17
(10117 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 19, 2002
Posts: 12
|
Yep, I do need to practice a lot. But doing this hop I am able to appreciate that to be able to do a hard 5.11 you need yet another level of skill. And its very exciting to know this.
I don't know about others but [this] climb is making me feel there is a huge difference between 5.10 hard and 5.11 hard. If only I could cross this big barrier may be the rest will come handy
[ This Message was edited by: hassan on 2002-06-23 18:37 ]
|
|
|
|
|
doosh
Jun 24, 2002, 3:29 PM
Post #5 of 17
(10117 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 521
|
Isn't Indian Rock a bouldering spot?
If you boulder A LOT for abotu 6 months, I bet you could skip 5.11 altogether.
|
|
|
|
|
dsafanda
Jun 24, 2002, 4:14 PM
Post #6 of 17
(10117 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2002
Posts: 1025
|
People who only boulder always seem to think like that. It's not the case. You can onsite V5's regularly and still get spanked by a 5.11b sport route. (It happens to me all the time ) Climbing routes takes a set of skills that you can only acquire by actually climbing routes.
|
|
|
|
|
hunter
Jun 24, 2002, 4:53 PM
Post #7 of 17
(10117 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 3, 2002
Posts: 121
|
How to climb 5.11D? If you ask me I suspect carefully applied superglue on the fingers and some rubber cement on the shoes
I'm in awe of almost every climber here. Being new I underestimated how tough this sport can be do get decent at.
I had a 50 ft 5.8 elude an onsight yesterday that I would have sworn looking up from the base I could have handled. In fact due to limited time I didn't get a chance to give it a second go. I'm still bummin over it and wondering if I'll ever be a real climber.
Hunter - (thinking of changing my handle to "Poser")
|
|
|
|
|
dsafanda
Jun 24, 2002, 4:59 PM
Post #8 of 17
(10117 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2002
Posts: 1025
|
Here's the bad or good news(depending on how you look at it) Hunter. No matter what ability you're at...there are going to be very discouraging days when you wonder if you're ever going to feel comfortble calling yourself a climber. That's probably why it's such an addictive past time. Keep cranking.
|
|
|
|
|
sheppe
Jun 24, 2002, 5:50 PM
Post #9 of 17
(10117 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 7, 2002
Posts: 170
|
Hunter,
IMHO, the grade doesn't make the climber. Whether your climbing 5.8's or 5.12's is inconsequential; it's the fact that you're climbing that makes you a climber.
-Sheppe
|
|
|
|
|
doosh
Jun 24, 2002, 6:37 PM
Post #10 of 17
(10117 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 521
|
dsafanda-
I beg to differ.
I never ever ever sportclimbed with regularity, EVER. I went from falling off a few 5.12s and sending v4s to sending v7 or 8 and sending 5.12s.
When you get to the power endurance necessary to wire a couple of 3 or 4 v7s, 8s and 9s into a circuit, 5.11 will be cake.
So, if this fellow stopped roped climbing for 6 months and bouldered circuits exclusively, he would come back to the roped climbing with enough power and technique to CRUSH his paltry project and move on to the next level.
TO ANY CLIMBER WANTING TO BREAK THROUGH TO THE NEXT PLATEAU:
Boldering is the answer.
Snatch the pebble form the hand of the master and only the clips will be hard.
|
|
|
|
|
phylp
Jun 24, 2002, 10:42 PM
Post #11 of 17
(10117 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 3, 2001
Posts: 175
|
Doosh-
You make some good points about the value of bouldering.
But I'm curious if you have applied your power/endurance = 5.11 piece of cake philosophy to a route like Bachar/Yerian. There I would agree with you that "boldering" (not bouldering) is the answer.
The route he is talking about is not a power/endurance route. My recollection of it was slabby and technical. Also sandy, like most of the routes there.
I think this may have been one of the routes put up by Dave Caunt back when he was still climbing a lot. If so, it's accurately graded.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Jun 24, 2002, 11:28 PM
Post #12 of 17
(10117 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
Quote:
When you get to the power endurance necessary to wire a couple of 3 or 4 v7s, 8s and 9s into a circuit, 5.11 will be cake.
Doosh, you are assuming that the reason that Hassan had trouble on the 5.11 was that he lacked power. That may not be the case. He may have lacked technique, in which case doing more routes to build a repertoire of technique would be of more help than bouldering to build power (but I agree that bouldering is helpful).
And you also said 6 months. He's not going to be bouldering V7-V9 circuits in 6 months!
-Jay
|
|
|
|
|
doosh
Jun 25, 2002, 2:03 AM
Post #13 of 17
(10117 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 521
|
Well, teh level of his power might not go up THAT much, but I beg to differ in the "boldering doesn't build technique, only power" arguement.
It is a valid point, but, as with everything in life, what you get out an experience is related directly to what you put into it.
If you go into boldering just looking to pull gymnastic moves and big dynos, you will be more powerful and have less technique, yes.
However, if you approach boldering from the perspective that in any piece of rockclimbing, your ONLY PRIORITY is the attaining the next hold and the best way to do that is through the effcient application of specific techniques... well, you begin to study not only the moves, the holds and the sequences in more detail, you begin to understand why certain choice are preferable beta.
f--- it.
Spend your 6 months boldering at Hueco. start in November... a 5.11d (almost) climber can crank up a pretty good circuit in a month or two there...
That place... any good bouldering spot... it's a movement trainer.
Figure out how technique works, rather than trying to play by techniques rules.
|
|
|
|
|
dsafanda
Jun 25, 2002, 2:47 AM
Post #14 of 17
(10117 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2002
Posts: 1025
|
I think you guys have made good points. The thing is though ...the question was about climbing 5.11 not V-whatever. Some people don't want to spend six months never going more than 15-20 feet off the ground. I totally agree that bouldering will help your climbing(power and technique) but there is no reason for some one who likes climbing routes to give that up and only boulder.
[ This Message was edited by: dsafanda on 2002-06-24 20:05 ]
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Jun 25, 2002, 3:18 AM
Post #15 of 17
(10117 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
That's a good point. I wanted to increase my power this year, so I just changed the emphasis of my training. I started bouldering two days a week and reduced my sport climbing to one day. With this approach, I didn't lose my endurance, also.
-Jay
[ This Message was edited by: jt512 on 2002-06-24 20:19 ]
|
|
|
|
|
doosh
Jun 25, 2002, 4:12 AM
Post #16 of 17
(10117 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 29, 2002
Posts: 521
|
Some forward progress is not measured in "feet off the ground"...
|
|
|
|
|
malachi
Jun 25, 2002, 5:17 AM
Post #17 of 17
(10117 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2002
Posts: 18
|
since you asked...
first - yeah, it's .11d. it's tricky and it's technical but it's not a sandbag.
second - bouldering doesn't just build power and/or power endurance. bouldering introduces you to new movement, thus building engrams (the building blocks of linked movement - i.e. climbing). so does climbing routes - though in a less intensive and concentrated fashion.
third - bouldering is not guaranteed as a solution to becoming a better climber, just as weight training isn't. you need to identify your weaknesses and train those weaknesses. given your description and the route in question it sounds as if you need to develop stronger technique.
fourth - the idea that not doing routes and only bouldering means you won't be able to do routes is simply untrue. an example would be Sharma's success on Realization (after years of just bouldering).
finally... the best way to become a better climber is to climb a lot. if this means doing circuits at a bouldering area - great. if it means running laps on a bunch of topropes - great. if it means running up a couple longer multi-pitch routes in a day - great. just climb.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
