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runningclimber
Mar 11, 2005, 2:06 PM
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It's new rope time! I've been thinking for a while that it would be nice to have a bipattern, but I've never climbed with one. They seem to be, even on sale, around $40-50 more than their single-pattern counterparts.
My question: How substantial is the benefit? Is it worth the extra cost? I climb mostly single-pitch sport and trad, but am planning on working in to some short multipitch within the life of this rope.
Any thoughts appreciated....thanks!
~Shelby
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kelownaclimber
Mar 11, 2005, 2:28 PM
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Once you buy one and start using it you wll never go back!Well worth the extra dough as far as I'm concerned!
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arrrghjp
Mar 11, 2005, 2:33 PM
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No, it isn't. For me it is always 17 armlengths of rope to the center point. You might be a little more or a little less depending on you height. The problem with this method is consistency. Troublesome anchor stances, or general clusters may throw you off. So you may want to mark the middle with some masking tape and practice several times just to be sure you are stopping at the same point each time.
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unrooted
Mar 11, 2005, 2:42 PM
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Masking tape??? I bet that lasts a long time!
If you have the extra dough for a double they can be nice, my first rope was a double, and my last two were not, I wouldn't pay $40 more for a double.
I would suggest buying a mammut, so friggin nice, but maxim (new england ropes) and sterling are great, avoid blue water and beal for sure.
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skateman
Mar 11, 2005, 2:53 PM
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Hi Running,
It is certainly worth it to me. Although, most online dealers seem to only charge an additional $20 for this feature (gearexpress.com). I was rushing once and almost rapped off the end of my rope (I know, I should have had knots in the ends). This wouldn't have been an isuue if the center was marked, the cliff was only 90 feet tall.
S-man
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t-dog
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Mar 11, 2005, 3:00 PM
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yes, they are definitely worth it, especially in situations where you need to know if you've past the middle of your rope really quickly. As other have said, I probably won't be going back to single colored ropes anytime soon.
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crackmd
Mar 11, 2005, 3:06 PM
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The middle marker on single colored ropes always seems to fade away over time. A piece of tape at the middle is only temporary. I have not bought a dual colored rope, but there have been many instances when I have wished I had one.
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buckyllama
Mar 11, 2005, 3:07 PM
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not worth the dough.
Standard middle-marking techniques (I'll not open that can of worms here) work fine.
The only really useful time bi-colors come in handy is when setting topropes or rappells where you can clip in (v/s threading an anchor). It can sometimes be a little easier to find the middle and then just toss the rest. Particurlarly if you use a rope bag and flake it into the bag tails-first.
Or you can mark the middle and just clip it to one of the bags loops.
For threading for a rap on a sport or single-pitch trad route, a regular middle mark is just as good. Because you need to flake up to the middle regardless, it's hard to miss. For multi-pitch they are no different than a normal rope.
If you can find one for <$10 more than the same normal rope, go for it. Otherwise don't bother.
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cologman
Mar 11, 2005, 3:07 PM
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Been climbing on bi-patterns for years. On long trad and alpine rtes its just one less thing to have to think about. One of the commands I have always used when belaying is to signal; when half-rope is reached. Makes it easier.
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adamtd
Mar 11, 2005, 3:10 PM
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Bi-pattern is not worth an added $40-$50. You can buy a rope marker for $5 and mark your rope. You can also butterlfy coil your rope from teh ends. When you get to the center, leave it as a shorter loop in teh coil. Then you can just grab teh center without looking for it and clip into your anchors if you're only top roping. This is free, easy, and I would still do it, even if I did have a bi-pattern rope. So in teh end, don't spend teh extra dough, spend that on a dry treatment or a longer rope -- more replace that worn, faded webbing for $20
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cman
Mar 11, 2005, 3:12 PM
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Now that there are more and more people putting up new routes with 70 m. ropes it is essencial that the belayer knows if there is enough rope to get off the route with out using a 2nd line. As a candy a s s leader I like to know the point at which I can just lower off and beg some one else to get my gear back for me. But that's just me.
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cchildre
Mar 11, 2005, 3:20 PM
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I think it will be worth the cash. Not only will it allow you to easily identify the center, but you will easily know the end of the rope your using. Take a nasty big fall on one end of the rope, switch ends of the rope for awhile and let the rope recover. If your responsible then you'll keep track of when your rope took a hard fall and which end it was on. So if one end takes consistently more hard falls than the other you can favor the other end to compensate till things even out, and by then you'll probably be retiring the rope.
In the dark they are golden!
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angry
Mar 11, 2005, 3:28 PM
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It's not neccesary, you can always grab the ends and find the middle. You should practice this anyway. It's just nice sometimes.
I had a bi-color get stuck and I had to chop the last 12 feet or so, now the middle isn't the middle, so that sort of sucks.
I just bought a new rope and I did go for bi-color (not for the bi, but the other features and it was on sale), I really like it, but it still isn't needed.
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climbrc
Mar 11, 2005, 3:50 PM
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Standad rope:
Trad Leader, "Hey have I passed mid point yet?"
Belayer, "uhh hmm..uhh hmmm I think so.. er uh well maybe not.. uhh not sure!".
Trad Leader,"Gee thanks!"
********
Bi-pattern:
Trad Leader, "Hey have I passed mid point yet?"
Belayer, "Nope."
Trad Leader,"Thanks!"
*****
Absolutley worth the money, no guessing or "re-stacking".
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angry
Mar 11, 2005, 3:59 PM
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In reply to: Standad rope: Trad Leader, "Hey have I passed mid point yet?" Belayer, "uhh hmm..uhh hmmm I think so.. er uh well maybe not.. uhh not sure!". Trad Leader,"Gee thanks!" ******** Bi-pattern: Trad Leader, "Hey have I passed mid point yet?" Belayer, "Nope." Trad Leader,"Thanks!" ***** Absolutley worth the money, no guessing or "re-stacking".
And everyone on this site wonders why I've got such a bad attitude. I'm going to go get a full frontal lobotomy and maybe I'll find some sense in these posts.
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climbingfoo
Mar 11, 2005, 4:00 PM
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It's worth it, espically when you have been climbing all day and have to rap that multipitch route in the dark. Make sure you tie both ends together too.
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runningclimber
Mar 11, 2005, 4:02 PM
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In reply to: Standad rope: Trad Leader, "Hey have I passed mid point yet?" Belayer, "uhh hmm..uhh hmmm I think so.. er uh well maybe not.. uhh not sure!". Trad Leader,"Gee thanks!"
This is what drew me to the bipattern thing in the first place. I'm notoriously bad about watching for the middle. I've had ropes that have the shaded patch at the midpoint, but it becomes difficult to spot once the rope gets a little bit dirty. Not fun: squnting at a section of dirty rope, trying to determine if there really is a mark there, or if it's all in your head.
On the one hand, it's a ridiculous amount of additional money to spend when I could mark the middle myself or reflake as you guys have suggested.
On the other hand...if I cheap out and buy the single pattern, will I kick myself every time I go climbing, wishing I had the bi pattern?
I'll probably sack up and get the bi pattern. :)
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clarki
Mar 11, 2005, 4:16 PM
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For sport-cragging, not too useful. For long routes, alpine, or just rapping off at the end of the day in the dark it is very usefull.
Something noone has mentioned yet: dark, no headlamp (ever been there?) You can thread a rappel and FEEL the center because the transition point feels a little wierd (rougher, bumpy) compared to the rest of the rope due to the weave change. Try finding the middle of a regular rope with your eyes closed......
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sspssp
Mar 11, 2005, 4:23 PM
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In reply to: I had a bi-color get stuck and I had to chop the last 12 feet or so, now the middle isn't the middle, so that sort of sucks.
I would encourage you to think about chopping 12 feet off the other end. The only thing worse than a rope that is not marked in the middle is one that is improperly marked in the middle.
You might know that the middle mark isn't. But other people you climb with may not.
As to the original thread, it is without a doubt worth it to me. But it really comes down to cash flow and priorities. If I was back to a starving student status where I would have to count my change to afford resoles, then no. Being [mostly] full time employed, is $20~$30 worth the increase in efficiency and safety, you bet it is.
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holmeslovesguinness
Mar 11, 2005, 4:36 PM
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Not sure what brand of rope you are wanting, but you might check out the Edelweiss ropes on gearexpress.com - the bi-pattern versions of several ropes (Torrent and Laser) are only $10 or so more than the standard versions.
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robdotcalm
Mar 11, 2005, 4:43 PM
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In reply to: : dark, no headlamp (ever been there?) You can thread a rappel and FEEL the center because the transition point feels a little wierd (rougher, bumpy) compared to the rest of the rope due to the weave change. Try finding the middle of a regular rope with your eyes closed......
Easy to do, if you mark the middle with adhesive tape.
Cheers,
Rob.calm
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robdotcalm
Mar 11, 2005, 5:03 PM
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Knowing the location of the middle of the rope is important in rappelling. An accident in Washington state last year drove this home. Two experienced climbers were rappelling from a site they had rappelled from previously. Their rope was plenty long enough. They visually checked that both ends were on the ground. The first guy started rappelling and soon one end of the rope went through his belay device. He fell and died. Conclusions: a high wind had whipped their rope after they lowered and moved one end off the ground; if they had the middle marked this would not have happened. After reading about this, I became more aware than ever about carefully marking the middle of the rope.
Two weeks ago in Eldorado Canyon (CO) my partner and I reached a tree, equipped with slings and rappel ring, to rappel down at about 3:30 PM. Another party was there setting up their rappel. I don’t know what brand rope they had. It was a light gray, almost an off white. The middle was marked by 2, maybe 4 inch wide black bands (manufactured into the rope) a couple of inches apart. As the four of us watched, they set up their rappel with the rope going through the anchor in the space between the markings. As the first guy was getting ready to rappel, my partner shouted out that the middle mark was about 30’ down the cliff. We looked and saw it; then looked back at the anchor point also saw it there.
What had happened? The sun coming through the trees had created two black shadows about 4 inches in length and a few inches apart. They looked exactly like the manufactured supplied middle markings. Even after we were aware that the shadows had created the illusion, it still looked real.
Moral of the story: if it can go wrong, it will go wrong. Taping the middle of the rope or a bi-colored rope would avoid this possible source of error. I’ve been climbing for over 30 years and this is the first time I’ve seen anything like this or heard about it. Is something so rare worth worrying about?
Cheers,
Rob.calm
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chanceboarder
Mar 11, 2005, 5:08 PM
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my first rope wasn't a bi-color rope and the middle was never marked. the only time i ever had a little bit of a problem with it was on long raps when i couldn't see the bottom and know that both ends of my rope were down. times like that i would just thread the rope through the anchor and then grab both ends together and start coiling it in preparation to throw it over the edge, that way i knew once i was done coiling it i had the rope threaded to the middle. my second rope is a single color but has the middle marked but it seems like that will likely fade with time or be covered with dirt so i'll end up with the same problem but hey it was on sale and you can't beat a $100 rope.
my partner had a bi-color and its nice to be able to find the middle really easy all the time but wasn't worth the extra money for me to get one too. just think of it as a luxury item, its nice to have but its gonna cost you extra and for most people you can probably do without it.
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chanceboarder
Mar 11, 2005, 5:16 PM
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In reply to: Knowing the location of the middle of the rope is important in rappelling. An accident in Washington state last year drove this home. Two experienced climbers were rappelling from a site they had rappelled from previously. Their rope was plenty long enough. They visually checked that both ends were on the ground. The first guy started rappelling and soon one end of the rope went through his belay device. He fell and died. Conclusions: a high wind had whipped their rope after they lowered and moved one end off the ground; if they had the middle marked this would not have happened. After reading about this, I became more aware than ever about carefully marking the middle of the rope. |
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golsen
Mar 11, 2005, 6:39 PM
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Here are the reasons you may want to have this feature:
1. Rapping and making sure the ends are down,
2. Leading and making sure you have enough rope to get to a belay,
3. Sport climbing and making sure your belayer understands how long the route is so he doesnt drop your ass when lowering off...
4. Aesthetics, some people may think it is cool...
There are ways to deal with everything except for number 4 (OK well spend the xtra dough on something that is really cool looking). And, based upon some peoples experience many will do those things anyway. Having close friends with 30 yrs of climbing experience getting permanently injured and handicapped because of item #3, I often wonder why rope manufacturers dont make this a std feature for safety. Based upon Robdotcalm's shadow story, and my own experience, I don't expect dark markings or tape to always be there and tape in the middle will fall off. After owning so many ropes in 27 yrs of climbing, I have only owned 1 that had this feature and I liked it.
The important thing is to understand what the potentials for accidents are and perform corrective measures and all of the above have corrective measures...
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