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ropesologuy
Apr 15, 2005, 6:30 PM
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Does any one have any pointers or tips on how to jug properley cause when ever I do it I look and feel like a wounded duck swimming up stream
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epic_ed
Apr 15, 2005, 8:41 PM
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In reply to: Does any one have any pointers or tips on how to jug properley cause when ever I do it I look and feel like a wounded duck swimming up stream
Sounds about right. :P
Great tips, Mike. I'll reitrate that the angle of the rope you are ascending determines the set-up of your jugging system. It also plays a factor in determining the best method for ascending. Jugging a free hanging rope on an over-hanging line is a real bitch to ascend using the traditional two-ascender method. By the same token, using the frog method on a slab is silly. I've found that for just cleaning a pitch (not ascending fixed lines), using one ascender and a gri gri is almost always more efficient than two ascenders.
They key is to have a variety of weapons in your arsenal and learn what works best for you in a given situation. I'd recommend you start learning by using the two ascender method, but I rarely favor this technique unless it's slabby. The key to using any of the rope-ascending techniques is to set up your system so you're using your legs as much as possible. Most importantly -- practice. Nothing can take the place of experience. Get out there and do some laps up and down a rope. Take the time now to learn what micro-adjustments will do in certain situations to improve or hinder your efficiency. That way, you'll have a larger repetoire to choose from when it matters.
Ed
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climbhigher
Apr 20, 2005, 5:31 AM
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Lots of PRACTICE! After 3000 feet of jugging, U get the hang of it. Use two Jugs not one. And back yourself up. Don't worry about using a gri gri for anything. Your top daisey (regular or adjustable) that is attached to top Jug should be at a length where your arm is bent at the same angle as if you are putting your arm over your head without striaghteing it. (does that make sense?) The steeper the angle of pitch you are jugging the shorter you want your daisey(the more you want your arm bent). If its not vertical, you can keep your weight on you feet in your aiders. If its over vert, you stand up in your aider throw your jug up and sit. Bring bottom jug up. Stand up and repeat. Don't try to do one arm pull ups. This is the texas one step method on overhanging stuff. Its simple requires minimal gear and is a proven technique. Also, if u keep your tumb on the trigger on your lower jugs cam and play with the angle of the jug while moving it up you get the hang of it. Because after u back yourself up there no weight at the end of the rope and its hard to move that bottom jub up. But like i said play with the angle of the jug a little bit and pull that little trigger back on the jug to release the cam a litte bit. Sorry this was so WORDY and i hope i didn't confuse U and u got some info from this tread. Have fun!!!
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glockaroo
Apr 20, 2005, 2:16 PM
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In reply to: ...They key is to have a variety of weapons in your arsenal and learn what works best for you in a given situation...Take the time now to learn what micro-adjustments will do in certain situations to improve or hinder your efficiency. That way, you'll have a larger repetoire to choose from when it matters.
Absolutely spot-on advice from Ed. Make your jugging just like your aid leading: know your gear & techniques, and apply the right tool to the problem at hand. Learn the tools ahead of time so you can perform when it matters. PPPPPP = Prior planning prevents piss poor performance.
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mother_sheep
Apr 20, 2005, 2:38 PM
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In reply to: Does any one have any pointers or tips on how to jug properley cause when ever I do it I look and feel like a wounded duck swimming up stream
One word for ya. . .PRACTICE.
Killing the wounded duck will feel good. :-)
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climbhigher
Apr 20, 2005, 3:35 PM
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The Frog method is just silly....Ask any speed climber how they jug when they clean. Its not the frog method. People find it really hard to jug a overhanging rope by the traditional yosemite method becaue they don't have the technique dailed in and there upper arm gets super pumped. And one accender and one gri gri is silly to. Two ascenders and no gri gri really does work.
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epic_ed
Apr 20, 2005, 4:23 PM
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In reply to: The Frog method is just silly....Ask any speed climber how they jug when they clean. Its not the frog method. People find it really hard to jug a overhanging rope by the traditional yosemite method becaue they don't have the technique dailed in and there upper arm gets super pumped. And one accender and one gri gri is silly to. Two ascenders and no gri gri really does work.
There is no one technique that is a panacea for everyone in every situation. Most of us aren't speed climbers, so much of the rationale for doing as they would do doesn't necessairly apply to the average aid climber. That's not to say that there aren't plenty of techniques and tricks speed climbers use that are useful to average climber dude/dudette, but just because "speed climber dude/dudette" is doing it doesn't mean it's gospel.
Even among speed climbers you'll find climbers using different techniques. Some use regular daiseys, some no daisey at all. Point is, people find and hone different techniques. To say one method is "silly" just because it's not your prefered method is short sighted. What works for me won't necessairly work for you, nor the original poster -- but for someone who is learning and trying out different options this is the perfect time to experiment with a variety of techniques. When you're starting out you suck equally at all methods and there will be no better chance to try them all.
Ed
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glockaroo
Apr 21, 2005, 3:25 PM
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In reply to: The Frog method is just silly....Ask any speed climber how they jug when they clean. Its not the frog method. People find it really hard to jug a overhanging rope by the traditional yosemite method becaue they don't have the technique dailed in and there upper arm gets super pumped. And one accender and one gri gri is silly to. Two ascenders and no gri gri really does work.
Myopic. No one said to use the frog while cleaning. It is universally recognized as useful for freehanging jugs. The trad yose method is simply inefficient for freehanging jugs. Ask the cavers, who spend a lot more time than us on freehanging jugs. Given a choice, they'll either use the frog or the ropewalker, both of which eliminate the inefficiency of the yose method.
For those of us who are barrelchested or have longterm arm injuries (both apply to me) the yose method for freehanging jugs is a ticket to reinjury.
I'm not saying that big guys can't use the yose method, it's just not the most efficient choice. If you're built like Dean Potter and can do 30 pullups, it doesn't matter anyway.
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climbhigher
Apr 22, 2005, 4:51 AM
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I am sorry. I hate negativity. I wont try to be negative while posting on this site anymore.
Things do work differently for seasoned valley climbers and climbers who get only a couple of weeks a year to climb in the valley. I would have to say about any kind of technique you use. Just practice, practice and practice more and get it dialed before you get on the big stone if your time is limited. Its really important to get the overhanging jug dialed. A good way to get good at juging fixed lines that are not overhanging is to jug the fixed lines to mammoth ledges in yosemite. Alot of times theres is more then on fixed line side by side. If you are with someone else, he or she can give you pointers as u jug. Have fun, Cheers.
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ropesologuy
Apr 24, 2005, 10:53 PM
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Thanks everyone for all the valuable input mother_sheep is right killing the wounded duck will be great I have been out on the rock a few times since posting and I am starting to make progress but I still need loads of practice to get it dialed in thanks again
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ammon
Apr 24, 2005, 11:58 PM
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Great pointers pmyche!!
I agree with Ed that everyone needs to find what the best way is for THEM. Being left or right handed/footed is an obvious reason among thousands of others.
I think the reason people look a little jerky when they first start jugging is because they are not used to the transfers of all the action involved. Like knowing when to pull and rest your weight in your harness. I've even seen people try to push their ascender up without lifting their leg in the aider.
Most everyone who posted so far agrees that the most important way to get more efficient is to practice (I think Mother_Sheep nailed that one)
It's the subtle changes in motion that make you smoother while jugging.
Cheers-
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climbhigher
Apr 25, 2005, 2:20 AM
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I didn't read pmyche posts. Well posted. I can be really pig headed and set in my ways when it comes to climbing. Anyways, go out and have some fun. Went climbing in Eldo yesterday. I beat myself up a little, but boy was it fun!
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