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shadowsandwich
Apr 21, 2005, 9:55 PM
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There always seem to be a boulder at every area i go too that seems to have the curse of perpetual wetness. The other day I was climbing at just such a boulder at the local area. Suddenly, it occured to me that a potential fast, easy, harmless, and potentially effective way of drying off parts of this perpetually wet boulder might be by using acetone on the holds/drippy areas of the boulder.
In the laboratory, especially O.Chem lab, we basically bathed in the stuff. We also routinely used acetone to dry glasswear which was too small (1H NMR tubes) to get at with paper. I checked the MSDS information and there did not seem to be any particular hazards other than the fact that it is quite flammable. Ecological hazards were reported as being almost non-existant. Best of all....It's completely water soluble!!! For those of you who do not know, acetone's drying time lies in the area of around 10-15 seconds, depending on temps.
Now I'm not saying that this should be used everywhere, all the time, on every single problem. This does not seem practical. However....it does seem like to get that extra little drying power on the perpetually wet holds would be most beneficial as well as safe (for the boulderer, nature, and the beloved boulders themselves). I would love to have the others' opinions on this matter as well as any stories if anyone else has tried this drying technique.
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3cclimber
Apr 21, 2005, 10:03 PM
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very interesting thread shadowsandwich I don't know much about chem or what affects the acatone may have upon the rock i do know that it eats some plastics and i wouldn't want to get it on my shoes or a crash pad, i don't know what it might do to it. Hopefully some one else will have a better reply.
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shadowsandwich
Apr 21, 2005, 10:03 PM
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P.S. - If anyone would like to check the MSDS info yourself, you can go to
This Website
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timsesink
Apr 21, 2005, 10:12 PM
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hmm, interesting. Keep us informed as to how it works
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caughtinside
Apr 21, 2005, 10:14 PM
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Is doing the problem really so important to you that you would carry out a jug of acetone and treat the individual holds? :?
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abalch
Apr 21, 2005, 10:35 PM
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In reply to: In the laboratory, especially O.Chem lab, we basically bathed in the stuff. We also routinely used acetone to dry glasswear which was too small (1H NMR tubes) to get at with paper. I checked the MSDS information and there did not seem to be any particular hazards other than the fact that it is quite flammable. Ecological hazards were reported as being almost non-existant. Best of all....It's completely water soluble!!! For those of you who do not know, acetone's drying time lies in the area of around 10-15 seconds, depending on temps. .....
excerpts from the MSDS that someone referenced a link to....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. Hazards Identification
Emergency Overview
--------------------------
DANGER! EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE LIQUID AND VAPOR. VAPOR MAY CAUSE
FLASH FIRE. HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED OR INHALED. CAUSES IRRITATION
TO SKIN, EYES AND RESPIRATORY TRACT. AFFECTS CENTRAL NERVOUS
SYSTEM.
Potential Health Effects
----------------------------------
Inhalation:
Inhalation of vapors irritates the respiratory tract. May cause coughing, dizziness, dullness, and headache. Higher concentrations can produce central nervous system depression, narcosis, and unconsciousness.
Ingestion:
Swallowing small amounts is not likely to produce harmful effects. Ingestion of larger amounts may produce abdominal pain, nausea and vomiting. Aspiration into lungs can produce severe lung damage and is a medical emergency. Other symptoms are expected to parallel inhalation.
Skin Contact:
Irritating due to defatting action on skin. Causes redness, pain, drying and cracking of the skin.
Eye Contact:
Vapors are irritating to the eyes. Splashes may cause severe irritation, with stinging, tearing, redness and pain.
Chronic Exposure:
Prolonged or repeated skin contact may produce severe irritation or dermatitis.
Aggravation of Pre-existing Conditions:
Use of alcoholic beverages enhances toxic effects. Exposure may increase the toxic potential of chlorinated hydrocarbons, such as chloroform, trichloroethane.
And you still say it is safe? You mentioned "bathing" in it essentially when you were in labs; don't your instructors teach you any lab safety? Acetone certainly isn't as acutely or chronically dangerous as hydrofluoric acid or some such, but it isn't a chemical you mess around with either.
Acetone is also incompatable with any substance of either alkali or acidic nature. I believe that both limestone and a lot of sandstone are alkali in nature.
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skidawg
Apr 21, 2005, 11:03 PM
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We used acetone at the airport I worked at to clean up the resin (etc...) off of anything we didn't want it on. That stuff is wicked though. Just smell it for an instant and you will know it's not good to inhale, and yes, it's ok to wipe stuff off your hands from time to time, but it's definitely not recommended, and covering holds on a boulder is going to be messy. That brings me to the point of getting it in your eye. From experience it hurts, and is...well...not good for you, and that would be very very easy to do, especially if you are spraying, or painting it to the rock above you. Sounds like you've done your research, and good luck with it, I'd like to know how it turns out, but...I would just wait for a nice sunny day to dry it off myself (and I live in the pacific northwest where it rains all the time)...just sounds expensive and more than it's worth.
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korporal
Apr 21, 2005, 11:13 PM
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What if you used rubbing alcohol instead?
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bandycoot
Apr 21, 2005, 11:22 PM
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Rubbing alcohol wouldn't dry as fast.
Acetone, if used in very small quantities and not spilled would dry out the holds quite well. Almost all pollution would be air pollution since it evaporates so quickly, which would in the long term be oxidized to CO2. A few mL, which is all that it would take, of the stuff evaporates in 10-20 seconds. Trace amounts might linger and create a scent that animals probably wouldn't like though, but maybe not. In any case, sounds more like a theoretical postulation. I'd be way to lazy to ever try it, and I wouldn't want to just in case there were environmental effects that I can't think of.
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rainontin
Apr 22, 2005, 12:14 AM
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If the holds are so wet that you cannot climb, maybe the rock dosn't want you climbing it. You don't have to climb everything you know.
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shadowsandwich
Apr 22, 2005, 1:01 AM
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In response to your question at the end of your post, yes, I would still say that this is a very safe compound. I'm glad that you checked out the MSDS site, and I would like to address your valid concerns put forth by the quotes you listed.
First of all, I would like to point out that almost all of the potential hazards that you quoted from the site including inhalation, ingestion, skin contact, eye contact, and chronic exposure refer to potential health effects that occur at either prolonged exposure, high concentration, or certain scenarios (all of which are easily avoidable). Also, due to the fact that only a very small amount, a few mL, would be necessary for the specific drying, these specific concerns would (at least it would seem to me) not be valid.
In response to your bolded excerpt regarding alcoholic beverages; I'm really not sure why you would be drinking alcoholic beverages before you climb, but even if you did the next sentence expands your highlighted section by specifically mentioning that exposure increases the toxic potential of chlorinated hydrocarbons. I'm unsure what profession might involve constant exposure to these compounds (since I'm not sure of what the industrial uses of chlorinated hydrocarbons in general are), but it would seem to the average joe, this should not be of concern. However, this is a very valid point and I will do my best to do more research in regards to this aspect of the potential health effects
Finally, I think you misunderstood the purpose of the posting. The purpose of using acetone on wet rock would be so that the acetone would be adsorbed onto the water and then evaporate, thereby drying off the rock. The type of rock it is used on would therefore be irrelevant.
Thanks alot for reading my post and for your concerns about this drying technique. I hope my address of the MSDS quotes has lessened your concern in regards to the hazards of acetone. Again, this is just a thought, and I'm not suggesting to go out to the crags and pour gallons of acetone on the rock. The level I am suggesting is very small as well as specific (the problem i was referring to in my original posting was 8 out of 9 holds dry) in nature. Thanks again!
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mesomorf
Apr 22, 2005, 1:16 AM
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I've got little business posting in a bouldering forum, but anyway...
Keep the stuff away from your ropes, harnesses, cams etc. Some nail polish remover is mainly acetone, and it says "Harmful to synthetic fabrics, wood finishes and plastic."
But I have to agree with the other poster, why not just cool your jets until the holds are dry? Be at one with nature and all that?
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chauch
Apr 22, 2005, 2:16 AM
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Registered: Jan 26, 2005
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You know, in my high school gym we had these huge fans called Heat Busters. You could certainly drag one of those out to the crag, right? Bring a generator too, if necessary... :wink:
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