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micronut
Apr 24, 2005, 4:41 PM
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for the past month, i have been laboring away in my free time constructing a first class access trail to a new crag, building stone steps, retaining walls, etc.... the intention was/is basicially to take responsibility for access impacts and consolidate traffic on one well constructed path, and also, to instill a sence of respect for the unique rocks and fragile envoirment.
so the other day, i go to take some folks climbing, and behold, some crazy freak(s) had spent a considerable amount of energy to deconstruct my efforts. They tore out all the stones and placed them directly on the path with the clear intent to de-activate the route. This is BLM land.......I also found in the parking area nails upright in the soil on 2 inch square backing plates, with just the tops sticking through. I don't think a government agency would have left dangerous and thoughtless booby traps like this around.
I don't really have a point to all this, i just wanted to vent. Maybe somebody has some constructive thoughts.
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micronut
Apr 24, 2005, 4:46 PM
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In reply to: Sorry your efforts were lost.
no effort for positive is ever lost.
I'm off in a few minutes to start the re-stacking process. it's cold and windy today, anyway. The way i see it, i have more determination than the opposition.
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angry
Apr 24, 2005, 5:16 PM
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Everyone has their cause, impact is what bothers them really.
I'd like to put a stop to all this damn urban sprawl, shut down all the golf courses, and see Wal-mart put out of business.
The people who did this probably see your path as destructive and would like people to only appreciate cliffs from afar. I don't agree with them but I understand them.
I guess everyone needs a cause
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cupton
Apr 24, 2005, 5:46 PM
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Nails in the parking lot is not cool... very not cool.
Leave a note at the trailhead explaining your intentions, perhaps, hopefully they did not understand your intentions.
And also be careful while working there. If this person/people feel strongly enough to leave nails to puncture tires, they might have more extreme things in store if they find you rebuilding your trail.
Good luck and stay safe.
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maculated
Apr 24, 2005, 6:41 PM
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In reply to: no effort for positive is ever lost. I'm off in a few minutes to start the re-stacking process. it's cold and windy today, anyway. The way i see it, i have more determination than the opposition.
I think I might love you.
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overlord
Apr 24, 2005, 7:04 PM
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In reply to: Leave a note at the trailhead explaining your intentions, perhaps, hopefully they did not understand your intentions.
ditto that.
also, it coldve been a good thing if someone punctured a tire on those nails... i dont know how things work there, but here thats at least a missdemeanor(sp). it wouldve been worh the price od fixing those tires to see such ppl get in some serious trouble.
or, if theres a chance you can proove that someone set such a stupid boobytrap (like fingerptints or such), step on it and then sue them :twisted:
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micronut
Apr 25, 2005, 1:36 AM
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update: two of my climbing buddies and i went and restacked all the stones and cleared the route. i found a lot more nails as well. unfortunetly, one of them was in my right front tire. this area is the scene of major dirt biking, and i think this is the work of the Sierra Club anti-dirtbiking desert tortoise people. Anybody in So.Cal involved in anything like that? Somebody is trying to de-activate motorcycle trails in the area.
In reply to: Leave a note at the trailhead explaining your intentions
I thought about and will post several info. signs.
In reply to: Nails in the parking lot is not cool... very not cool. And also be careful while working there.
word! i've got a very sharp machette that I keep on the down low, but i know how to swing it.
The whole experience has been positive in that now more climbers are involved and invested in the trail, and I'm less attached all around.
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micronut
Apr 25, 2005, 1:42 AM
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double
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onbelay_osu
Apr 25, 2005, 5:12 AM
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In reply to: update: two of my climbing buddies and i went and restacked all the stones and cleared the route. i found a lot more nails as well. unfortunetly, one of them was in my right front tire. this area is the scene of major dirt biking, and i think this is the work of the Sierra Club anti-dirtbiking desert tortoise people. Anybody in So.Cal involved in anything like that? Somebody is trying to de-activate motorcycle trails in the area.
not the work of sierra club, they are more political side and not so much on the activist side.
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gremlin
Apr 25, 2005, 5:37 AM
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That's what they want you to think!! You were sucked in by their lies!
/pretty sure I paid them at some point back in high school to save a panda or somthing
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kachoong
Apr 25, 2005, 6:06 AM
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In reply to: some crazy freak(s) had spent a considerable amount of energy to deconstruct my efforts. |
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scrapedape
Apr 25, 2005, 2:09 PM
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Doesn't sound like the work of the Sierra Club to me.
What's the deal with BLM land? Can anyone just go out and do whatever they want with it? Would your work be legitimized if you went and talked to the officials at BLM and gained their endorsement for your work? Obviously if people are going to be using the area, impacts will be minimized through the construction of good trails.
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jammer
Apr 25, 2005, 2:13 PM
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Take a couple of friends and spend a night there. Ensure that you are not visable from the parking pot and when they start to do their dirty work, blind them with the flash of the camera. If you all have cameras, they will begin to think that they are outnumberd and leave. With the pics in hand, see the locals.
Better then explaining to the judge why you chopped off the arm of some spinless dude/dudette.
my 2c worth
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madriver
Apr 25, 2005, 3:05 PM
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In reply to: Take a couple of friends and spend a night there. Ensure that you are not visable from the parking pot and when they start to do their dirty work, blind them with the flash of the camera. If you all have cameras, they will begin to think that they are outnumberd and leave. With the pics in hand, see the locals. Better then explaining to the judge why you chopped off the arm of some spinless dude/dudette. my 2c worth
...replace the cameras with 12 ga. auto loaders...
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arrettinator
Apr 25, 2005, 3:08 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: Take a couple of friends and spend a night there. Ensure that you are not visable from the parking pot and when they start to do their dirty work, blind them with the flash of the camera. If you all have cameras, they will begin to think that they are outnumberd and leave. With the pics in hand, see the locals. Better then explaining to the judge why you chopped off the arm of some spinless dude/dudette. my 2c worth ...replace the cameras with 12 ga. auto loaders... |
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micronut
Apr 25, 2005, 3:31 PM
Post #17 of 25
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In reply to: not the work of sierra club, they are more political side and not so much on the activist side.
i'm not so sure about that, i know a lot of motorbikers who tell some crazy stories about Sierra Club traps.
In reply to: ....some could liken that to chopping bolts....
i'm a bit worried they might try that next.
In reply to: What's the deal with BLM land? Would your work be legitimized if you went and talked to the officials at BLM and gained their endorsement for your work?
i know the local ranger, and he's a cool guy.
your second point is very important: i've been on the Access Fund site, downloading materials to organize climbers. bouldering, Sport or Trad., (free) access is THE issue facing climbers, and i'd urge everyone who reads this to make a donation to the Access Fund.
I wish Tgreene was hanging around, i'm sure he's got some game cameras and long range scopes that would come in handy.
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overlord
Apr 25, 2005, 3:44 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: ....some could liken that to chopping bolts.... i'm a bit worried they might try that next.
some locals really hated climbers that were climbing on the now no longer legal crag bove the village of podpec. well, the climbing community is to blame here. they were parking all over the place and being rude when asked to move, plus there were some italians that were having parties under the wall wich was right above the village... you cant really blame them. id be pissed too.
well, the villagers, being the morons they are, didnt chop the bolts but they cut them in half under the head (they were screwins). luckily nobody was injured.
id start inspecting bolts before you climb if i were you. the ones at the bottom should do as i cant imagine them having the will to climb and damage the upper ones. but if youre stupid engouh to leave nails on a parking spot, youre stupid enough to damage bolts. and also be carefull fi the anchors are accesible from the top. in some areas such anchors seem to have some kind of dissapearing power.
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dingus
Apr 25, 2005, 4:05 PM
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I'm not defending what was done here, but to offer some food for thought...
If you have the right to establish a formal trail on public land with stone and earth works, others have the equal right to remove it.
I have worked to establish use trails to climbing and hiking areas a tiny few times and have certainly benefitted from others do so far more.
On the whole... I would suggest a minimalist approach. The 'least amount that will do,' while perhaps not creating a trail worthy of a CCC construction crew, may be the best way to avoid scrutiny from BLM officials and activists.
I quick example from NorCal...
there is a well known sport climbing area near here called Table Mountain. It is on Bureau of Reclamation land, above Melones Reservoir. One of the areas there is called the Grotto, also very well known.
Over the years, climbers and teenage partiers established a use trail to the place. 10 years ago you had to KNOW where it was to find it. Since the areas sees a lot of use, the trail shows that use.
No huge gullies or anything like it however, the folks who cut through the underbrush picked a pretty good non-erosional line.
One short section however, maybe 50 feet, is steep and smooth dirt. When wet, slippery. I have busted my ass walking down this section more than once, so have many others.
Last year some fool cut steps into this dirt slope, in an effort to, I don't know, customize the trail???
Maybe this person, these people, thought they were doing a service?
What they did was create erosional steps that have now sloped out too... it's an ugly scar of work.
BLR official comes along, sees this bullshit and ascribes it to the climbers at the Grotto and makes a note in a report... one more hit against the impact of climbers at Table Mtn.
And my buddy Angus, who has been climbing there for like 12 years? He gets freaking pissed off every time he sees those steps. He's not the eco-nazi type, but it is PROVOKED anger like this that leads to nails in the dirt and trail deconstruction.
May I suggest that if you reestablish your trail, you do so in as minimalistic a fashion as possible? Leave the stone work for the masons and the CCC?
Just a suggestion bro. No flames. Trail wars are far more impacting than bolt wars, ya know?
DMT
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micronut
Apr 25, 2005, 4:58 PM
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In reply to: I'm not defending what was done here, but to offer some food for thought... If you have the right to establish a formal trail on public land with stone and earth works, others have the equal right to remove it. DMT
true enough, we all share the land.............i do take exception with the nails........there is no justification, period, i don't care how mad you are, compose yourself. these nails are not just aimed at me, they are all over the de-activated motorbike trails, someone could get hurt.
In reply to: On the whole... I would suggest a minimalist approach. The 'least amount that will do,' while perhaps not creating a trail worthy of a CCC construction crew, may be the best way to avoid scrutiny from BLM officials and activists.
true again, something i considered.
In reply to: Trail wars are far more impacting than bolt wars, ya know?
i'm adopting a wait and see stance. I think these people are a bunch of feel good yuppies from the city who drive their new suv's up to our backyard and try to "save the tortoise", just hacking at the branch ends of enviormental issues. either that or tweakers hiding their secret lab. our
superior presence will, over time, win out.
good points, dingus
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dingus
Apr 25, 2005, 5:12 PM
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In reply to: I think these people are a bunch of feel good yuppies from the city who drive their new suv's up to our backyard and try to "save the tortoise", just hacking at the branch ends of enviormental issues.
I don't usually ascribe 'nails-in-the-road' malice to feel good yuppies or even fairly strident environmentalists, EVEN the activist kinds.
My opinion is that the feel good yuppie types aren't usually willing to take that sort of risk, or don't have the requisite malice to begin with.
In these parts, the feel good yuppie types generally inflame others to do the dirty work, and those others are usually teenagers and very young adults who foolishly believe they have nothing to lose.
Like this poor stupid SOB. He's had an awful joke played on him. You don't, and won't, see the feel good yuppies who inflamed him standing up to take the blame now, I assure you.
Some people who knew better turned a young man's idealism and ruined his life. Of course he bears responsibility for his actions. But oh it would be justice if those who put him up to it were to pay a similar price. This kid's life is now FUCKED.
Or it could be tweakers, yah.
Cheers!
DMT
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onbelay_osu
Apr 25, 2005, 5:15 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: not the work of sierra club, they are more political side and not so much on the activist side. i'm not so sure about that, i know a lot of motorbikers who tell some crazy stories about Sierra Club traps.
That sounds more like the work of Green Peace or even better my favorite group (and no this is not sarcasim!) Earth First! Sierra Club would never organize something that would inflict bad publicity upon thier organization where others such as Green Peace and Earth First that is thier purpose they are the ground soliders for the eco war! where as i said earlier Sierra Club is more or less on the political side of the game....
i do throw this out there, that is my expierence from these organizations, there could also be some hudlums falsly claiming sierra club, or more than likely you just have a bunch of kids bored, and looking for something to destroy...i have never heard of GP or EF! tearing up trails...not big enough...
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micronut
Apr 25, 2005, 5:45 PM
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this is the situation: my one friend and i have been climbing at this crag since 1998. somebody, about two years ago, piled a large amount of rocks on motorcycle trails on the hillsides below the crags. Judging from the amount of work, it's was definetly an organized (Sierra Club) outing. I thought that this was a good idea, as the motorbikes shouldn't be on such steep slopes. I asked my BLM ranger buddy, and he said he thought it was the local branch of the Sierra Club, as his office didn't have the manpower or desire to do such a thing. the dirtbike wars out here are fierce..........people have been hurt.
everything was cool for at least a year, until i started to inspect this stone work closer and started un-earthing nails on backing plates. we still cragged and slowly dialed in sections of trail that were in need of care. for the last month, we have been cragging there many times a week, and really dialing in the path.
then the boys with nails show up. it's a group effort, anti-motorbike in nature. it's not climber vs. climber as dingus may have suggested,as myself and my one friend have been the only active climbers, and the nail i picked up yesterday was a booby trap, not a deliberate spike. I'm chilling, climbing, calling my ranger friend, and keeping an eye out.
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dingus
Apr 25, 2005, 10:02 PM
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In reply to: I'm chilling, climbing, calling my ranger friend, and keeping an eye out.
Sounds like a great approach.
Good luck man
DMT
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philbox
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Apr 25, 2005, 11:00 PM
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philbox moved this thread from Community to Access Issues & Closures.
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