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carrieruth
Apr 29, 2005, 1:09 AM
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andrewbanandrew
Apr 29, 2005, 2:01 AM
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I cannot comment on classroom curriculum, but in the gym I frequent, people who wish to lead are required to pass a lead test, which basically encompasses:
-Belaying a leader with proper technique using an ATC or similar non-autolocking device
-Leading properly (not backclipping or z clipping as they go up) and then taking a lead fall. While they do this they wear a helmet.
People who wish to lead in the gym I go to must bring their own rope, as well.
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carrieruth
Apr 29, 2005, 2:18 AM
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thanks andrew
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galt
Apr 29, 2005, 2:23 AM
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It's finally going to happen eh? My word, what has UCF come to? Gluck keeping everyone safe.
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carrieruth
Apr 29, 2005, 2:29 AM
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In reply to: It's finally going to happen eh? My word, what has UCF come to? Gluck keeping everyone safe.
Yes, finally! It may take awhile still... but at least we have the anchors up. Ander and Bill were climbing on them for a little while until the school decided we shouldn't until we get the class going. I saw one of your messages from when the tower first opened up. Sorry I can't tell... what's your name? When did you work there? Have we met? I've been climbing down there for the last 2 years and working there for a semester now...
Carrie
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112
Apr 29, 2005, 3:00 AM
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The class I eavesdropeped on many times at the gym I use to go to was 1-1.5 hours per day for 2 days. The end of the first day and the begging of the 2nd day wher basically the same thing, thus reinforcing what the students learned and confirming to the instructor that the students HAVE learned what was taught.
At the end of the 2nd day each student does a actual lead climb with their student partner belaying them (backed up by an instructor). At the top of the climb (level with the top anchors, but with the top anchors not clipped) the leader takes a fall. This is so that both the leader and belayer can know what it is like.
The students are not qualified to lead climb yet. They are required to come back another day and take a lead test where they must demonstrate they know what they are doing (basically the same as the end of the class, fall and all, but the tester cannot remind them of anything). If they need reminding then the test is over. The tester explians everything to them and helps them remember it all, and they have to wait until another day.
Once they finally demonstrate lead qulifications (by test) then become certified to lead.
As for the specifics covered in the lead class, if you need to ask you should not be teaching a lead class. No offense intended, it's just the truth.
Maybe you can hire an instructor for your instructors from a local climbing gym. I know the instructor who I took my first beginer belay class from was very thorough and very compitent (money well spent) - he was the one I watched give the lead class (multiple times).
I have seen "instructors" (college students) who I felt were so incompetent that they needed to take a bely class, yet they were the ones teaching others (very scary) - thi was toprope not lead. I think the key is to take time and cover the material over multiple days.
I hope it all works out. Good luck.
Ken
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landgolier
Apr 29, 2005, 3:22 AM
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wow, more climbing going on in florida all the time, wish there had been more walls there when I was growing up.
I don't know much about the setup at your wall, and I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I think you need to think less about course materials and subject matter and more about actual structure. The amount of stuff you could formally "teach" someone who already knows toprope about sport leading indoors is pretty small. Don't back clip, don't z-clip, clip the anchors right, hangers are not holds, don't just let go like on toprope but rather downclimb to avoid whippers, don't do dumb things while falling. Belayers should know how to give slack (not exactly rocket science) and when to jump and when to run. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there isn't a lot to be learned and that you won't leave behind a red spot if you don't have these skills, but the amount of direct instruction needed before somebody starts in on closely supervised practice is about 1/3 of what it is for outdoor sport leading; no need to teach how to safely thread anchors and get it right even when you're totally exhausted, no need to know what to do when you f up anyway and drop the rope, no need to know how to rap, no need to know how to rap when you forgot your ATC, no slide show/chalkboard talk entitled "a field guide to the various crazy shit you will find at the tops of sport routes and how to deal with it without dying or leaving booty". I guess what I'm saying is that you should focus less on the formal curriculum and more on having enough time and a small enough group to really have everyone go through all the steps, have their errors corrected, and discuss the rationale for why various things are right or wrong. I'm not a certified guide or anything, but I have taught a lot of outdoors skills in both formal and informal settings, and indoor leading is one of those things like CPR where there is pretty much only one right way to do it, so practice and skill reinforcement takes precedence over the more academic approach you might need to teach someone something where a large skill base and thoughtful judgement about evaluating best options are the key (i.e. trad climbing or general first aid).
just my dos pesetas,
T
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carrieruth
Apr 29, 2005, 3:23 AM
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In reply to: As for the specifics covered in the lead class, if you need to ask you should not be teaching a lead class. No offense intended, it's just the truth. Maybe you can hire an instructor for your instructors from a local climbing gym. I know the instructor who I took my first beginer belay class from was very thorough and very compitent (money well spent) - he was the one I watched give the lead class (multiple times).
Thank you for this information. Your suggestion about covering a class over multiple days sounds very valid. We have looked into hiring someone from Entre Prises who built our tower to teach our employees how to instruct the class. We are very aware that we are not prepared to teach a class on this yet and we're taking our time before attempting to do so. Bringing in outside help (like asking for information on the specifics of classes here on the forum) is something we know we need to do. Thanks again.
Carrie
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carrieruth
Apr 29, 2005, 3:28 AM
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In reply to: wow, more climbing going on in florida all the time, wish there had been more walls there when I was growing up. I don't know much about the setup at your wall, and I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but I think you need to think less about course materials and subject matter and more about actual structure.
Yeah, we're trying to make do in Florida with a whole lot of indoor gym climbing... and the occasional side of a building. I see what you're saying about the class. The content is pretty much going to be the same for any indoor lead class. We'll have to keep in mind how important it is to have small groups, be flexible, etc. Thanks.
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climbingnurse
Apr 29, 2005, 3:40 AM
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I don't know how realistic this is in Central Florida, but I think it would be a good idea for your instructors to be people who are fairly well experienced with outdoor lead climbing.
As an analogy, I have trouble imagining being taught how to put in IV's by someone who had never done it on anything but a manequin. It's hard to know what's important unless you've actually done what you are preparing the students to do.
I used to live in Tampa, and there were a bunch of really good climbers with tons of climbing experience who worked and hung out at the gym there. I think it was called Vertical Ventures. There's a guy on here (known for his pictures) who used to hang out there. Try PMing the_alpine. It would be great if you could get some of those guys to come and help you out.
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koolaid
Apr 29, 2005, 9:14 AM
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I guess the only advice I can give you is to keep a vigilant eye on those who lead. Constantly remind them in case they forget or try to be hardasses. I work at the wall at MS State Uni, and really wanted to do lead climbing clinics. But in a flat state where climbing isn't big, like MS (and also FL), lead climbing at a gym is a big liability, not only for you but also for the school in case someone gets hurt. I've seen some people try to be hardasses going for an anchor, when it's obvious they can't make it, and ignoring all warning to stop by me and others, then taking a lead fall. Also it became a hassle when people toprope and stick their fingers in the anchors. It just wasnt worth it, and I took off the anchors. :/
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