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snothead
May 29, 2005, 1:15 AM
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I'm still pretty new to climbing. I was going to set up a TR today on this route where there was only one bolt at the top and one good tree. The nut on the bolt was finger tight and I could easily spin it off and on. I didn't know whether or not I could trust it, and I had no tools to tighten it with. We opted not to climb that route.
What would everyone else do, would you trust the hanger to stay on the bolt?
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vegastradguy
May 29, 2005, 1:33 AM
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well, it sort of depends on how good the tree was.
if the tree was really good- good enough to trust as a sole anchor- then i probably would have clipped the bolt as a backup to the anchor.
it also sort of depends on the bolt- just because the nut is loose does not necessarily mean the bolt is bad.
however, it sounds like, as a beginner, you made a good call- if you cannot build an anchor that you can trust, you shouldnt climb the route.
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snothead
May 29, 2005, 3:20 AM
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Any guidelines on how to tighten?
I don't own a torque wrench
Also, what if I run into a TR anchor where both nuts on 2 hangers are only finger tight? Would anyone trust them?
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from_the_gym
May 29, 2005, 3:39 AM
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i think it would be a judgement call on what the bolt looked like and when the handy guide book says the FA was. I would think that overtightening a bolt would cause just about as much of an issue as not tightening at all. In the end, judgement call...post a pic if you have one.
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kriso9tails
May 29, 2005, 4:11 AM
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Where were you climbing?
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curt
May 29, 2005, 4:58 AM
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In reply to: Any guidelines on how to tighten? I don't own a torque wrench Also, what if I run into a TR anchor where both nuts on 2 hangers are only finger tight? Would anyone trust them?
Finger tight is plenty good. How tight the nuts are has absolutely nothing to do with the strength of the bolts.
Curt
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gunksgoer
May 29, 2005, 9:41 AM
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curts right. certainly not to confidence inspiring, but theyre just as bomber.
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snothead
May 29, 2005, 2:33 PM
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Someone asked where I was climbing - I'm in Thunder Bay. I was at Silver Harbour.
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brutusofwyde
May 29, 2005, 3:05 PM
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In reply to: How tight the nuts are has absolutely nothing to do with the strength of the bolts.
wrong. Over-tightening bolts can lead to weakening or failure of the bolt depending on the bolt style.
Brutus
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nsintros
May 29, 2005, 4:02 PM
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In reply to: Finger tight is plenty good. How tight the nuts are has absolutely nothing to do with the strength of the bolts.
I don't know much about bolting but from what I know that sounds wrong. If the nut was never tightend the bolt hasn't been expanded. Therefore the pullout strength is right around 0ft/lb. However depending on the direction of the pull you might just be concerned with shear strength which I would assume doesn't differ too much if the bolt is expanded or not. Anyways like I said I don't know a lot about bolting, this is just my understanding of it.
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socalbolter
May 29, 2005, 4:20 PM
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I think Curt was correct and that his comment had been misread by the rest who have commented on it.
When the bolt is first installed (and tightened) is when the torque wrench would come in handy. After the initial expansion has occured someone would have to loosen the nut and then hammer the stud back down into the hole to release the expansion cone (or band depending on the bolt type).
Given that, I would be most concerned if I came across a loose nut that had no (or almost no) threads sticking out through the top of the nut when you had it fully finger tight.
If the expansion portion of the bolt is still intact, finger tightening the nut is the best you could do without a wrench. If you did have a wrench all you would want to do is to go just a little tighter than finger tight (to keep the nut from vibrating loose again). Anything tighter than that would more than likely lead to damaging the bolt itself.
Again, Curt was right in what he thought he was saying. He just should have added a bit more clarification IMHO.
Bottom line though - if you don't feel good about the anchor yourself, don't use it!
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nsintros
May 29, 2005, 4:29 PM
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I would agree if you are assuming the bolt had originally been tightened. Thats all I was really saying. If the nut is not tight it is possible to assume that it never had been tightened, or that it had been tightened but loosened up over time. I know the chances that the bolter didn't tighten the nut originally aren't very high but the possibility is there. Just something to consider.
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curt
May 29, 2005, 4:33 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: How tight the nuts are has absolutely nothing to do with the strength of the bolts. wrong. Over-tightening bolts can lead to weakening or failure of the bolt depending on the bolt style. Brutus
The question here was about loose nuts that were only "finger tight" not about over tightened nuts.
Curt
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brutusofwyde
May 29, 2005, 8:24 PM
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post deleted due to my inability to say something nice.
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brutusofwyde
May 29, 2005, 8:32 PM
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In reply to: The question here was about loose nuts that were only "finger tight" not about over tightened nuts.
duh.
Too bad you didn't limit your answer to that, eh?
but enough bickering.
In reply to: If the nut is not tight it is possible to assume that it never had been tightened, [snip] I know the chances that the bolter didn't tighten the nut originally aren't very high but the possibility is there. Just something to consider.
I have found a few bolts, even on walls like Lurking Fear on El Cap and NW Face Half Dome, where the bolt had never been tightened, and was wiggling loose in the hole.
I encourage everyone reading this thread visit ASCA's excellent website and read up on bolts and bolting. The more you know about the subject, the better decisions you can make.
http://www.safeclimbing.org/
Brutus
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curt
May 29, 2005, 10:07 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: The question here was about loose nuts that were only "finger tight" not about over tightened nuts. duh. Too bad you didn't limit your answer to that, eh? Brutus
I did limit my answer to that scenario--it's too bad you didn't do the same. :wink:
Curt
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markc
May 31, 2005, 7:44 PM
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In reply to: I encourage everyone reading this thread visit ASCA's excellent website and read up on bolts and bolting. The more you know about the subject, the better decisions you can make. http://www.safeclimbing.org/
Good advice made easier by activating the link.
If you're in an area where they're replacing bolts (or even if you're not), you can consider making a tax-deductible donation.
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slobmonster
Jun 1, 2005, 5:33 AM
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It should be noted (in a pinch) that one can tighten a bolt's nut with a large stopper.
Also, a stopper several sizes smaller can be used as a one-hitter.
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double
Jun 1, 2005, 6:03 AM
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In reply to: It should be noted (in a pinch) that one can tighten a bolt's nut with a large stopper.
In reply to: Also, a stopper several sizes smaller can be used as a one-hitter. |
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slobmonster
Jun 2, 2005, 12:00 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Also, a stopper several sizes smaller can be used as a one-hitter. Could you explain this more? |
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rossgoddard
Jun 2, 2005, 1:20 AM
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In reply to: Also, a stopper several sizes smaller can be used as a one-hitter. |
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renohandjams
Jun 8, 2005, 4:22 PM
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I have a set of REMOVABLE Bolts on my rack, they hold 3,000 pounds and are great if you ever come accross an old bolt hole. Did you notice a empty bolt hole next to the single bolt? If you did I would've plugged one of these babies in there.
This is what they look like:
http://www.westernsafety.com/removebolt3.jpg
They're made by tech friends.
---------------------------------------------
-Kenny
http://www.TradRack.com
FREE EMAIL ACCOUNTS, yourname@TradRack.com, only 100 to give.
Email yourname@TradRack.com, and the name you want.
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