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spunion
Jun 7, 2005, 10:36 PM
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I just recently visited the Palisades, in the Marietta, Ga area, and found some pretty cool rocks to climb. Being a novice, I don't want to climb it, or take my friend, another novice, without a good top rope. I've been climbing with my more experienced buddies a few times, but I didn't have to think about anything but climbing. Anyway, you can climb around to the top of this rock I found, and there's a huge tree about five feet from the overhang. I was thinking I could tie a loop around this tree, have the top rope carabiner on the loop, and hang the carabiner just over the ledge, so the rope doesn't rub on the rock. I obviously don't want to go climbing on this rock uless it's safe, so my questions are:
1. Does this sound safe, or retarted?
2. What's the best way to anchor a carabiner to a tree? What kind of knots should I use??
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jcr
Jun 7, 2005, 10:48 PM
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Go with someone who knows!!!
JC
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johnathon78
Jun 7, 2005, 10:56 PM
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Thats sounds good as long as you have 2 opposed and locking biners where the rope runs through. And as long as the carabiners themselves arent obstructed by the edge of the rock ( which is called cross loading).
The easiest way for me to apply webbing to a tree is to wrap it thru itself. Cant really explain it, but the description sounds just like it is! Not really necessary but helpful would be to lay a piece of carpet or old clothing over the rock where the webbing runs.
Ummmm.... a back-up never hurts! Climb safe!
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hortisb
Jun 7, 2005, 10:58 PM
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If you don't know, you shouldn't be trying it. There are several good schools on the east coast. Just do a local Goggle search on climbing schools and I'm sure you can find a good program.
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mgoodro
Jun 7, 2005, 11:05 PM
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I usually feel more secure on a good size tree than a couple of old bolts. In fact, whenever possible I will run a backup to a tree or large rock when setting up TR.
It sounds like you've got the right general idea, but be sure you have a SRENE setup:
Solid, Redundant, Equalized, No Extension. A large tree should be plenty solid. Use a couple if they are available. Double-up your webbing or rope used for the set up. Double up on the TR (locking!) biners, gates opposed. A failure in one part of the setup should not shock load the rest of the system. A fall shouldn't cause the setup to shift.
On top of that, it's still a good idea to have an experienced climber checking your first few setups. You can't be too careful with your life, and your friends.
Hope this helps.
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4togo
Jun 7, 2005, 11:52 PM
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Redundancy is good, go with someone who knows, and be sure that tree is solidly rooted.
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modman
Jun 8, 2005, 12:49 AM
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Of course you can use a BFT* if one is handy. Heck half the time I trust em more than bolts.
*BFT-big f&$k@*g tree
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drector
Jun 8, 2005, 1:00 AM
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If you can remember to use two carabiners, lockers are the best, and use a really good static line for the anchor, then your set. Go for it.
Some people like to make the static line redundant but if it's 8mm or bigger, I might not bother since it's as good as many climbing ropes that we only use one of. I would not make a loop of webbing and trust it like a piece of static line. If using webbing then use two separate loops and two biners and your set.
If your stupid then go get instruction. If all of this makes sense then you may be ready to just do it. It's up to you. Don't die because of a stupid mistake setting up a top rope.
Dave
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spunion
Jun 8, 2005, 3:06 AM
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All this makes sense, and I really appreciate the feedback. But what exactly is the best way to tie the top rope carabiners to the tree? What exactly is webbing? (Sorry, gear terminology gets me...) Does webbing usually come in a loop, so I can wrap it around the tree and pass it through itself? If using a regular rope, should I use a specific kind, and what kind of knot should I use?
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harryhood
Jun 8, 2005, 3:14 AM
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it's kind of complicated to explain without diagrams (and it's super easy to miscommunicate in writing like this)... the best advice so far is to go climbing with someone experienced and get them to teach you how to tie anchors. That way you get the benefit of supervision the first couple times you tie one up. Seriously.
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saxfiend
Jun 8, 2005, 3:33 AM
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Hi, spunion, I'm pretty sure I know the place you're talking about (look in the photos in my profile, there's a picture of it). It's a fun short climb for someone who's new to climbing, but you still need to be safe, so (like others have said) please don't do this by yourself. Setting up a toprope anchor is something you have to learn from somebody who already knows what webbing is and how to use it.
Do you have any experienced climber friends who can work with you the first few times? If not, PM me, maybe we can work something out.
JL
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rocloco
Jun 8, 2005, 4:36 AM
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Dude, take a long enough length of static rope to run from the tree to the lip of the face/cliff and still have enough for 2 figure 8 knots and 2 back up overhand knots.
Tie a figure eight knot 6 or 7 ft. (depending on width of tree, might need more or less) up one side of the rope. Wrap that same end around the tree, keeping the knot a ft. or 2 away from the tree. Run the free end (side wrapped around tree) back through the figure 8 knot. It's called a re-woven figure 8 and you should already know if from tieing into the harness. It's exactly the same. Tie a back up overhand knot with the remaining slack just below the fig 8. Neatly sort any slack remaining on this end. This is NOT the end used to tie the knot for the carabiners. You are now anchored to the tree so run the rope leaving the other side of the knot over to the edge and tie a figure 8 LOOP at the desired spot for the carabiners. Tie an overhand knot behind the fig 8 loop with the slack as a back up and keep any more slack neatly sorted at the top.
MAKE SURE your locked carabiners are opp & opp and also that they are clipped into the fig. 8 loop on the main line running to the tree and not slack etc.
I would get a book at your local climb shop if I was you. You obviously need gear so buy it all together. Mountaineering: Freedom of the Hills is good. There are lots of others. John Long has books on anchors too. There's nothing like having a friend who knows show you though and even better to check your set up a time or two before you go it alone!!
I'm assuming you have 2 harnesses, belay device etc. You need 2 big lockers and enough big gauge static rope for the anchor. A 50m or more dynamic rope and you're good to go. Talk to the guy at the store and tell him what's up and he can help. Look at the book real quick 1st if you don't want to look like a complete idiot.
You can use 3/4" webbing in the same manner, but you'll need at least 2 separate (I use 3) lines of it. It should be equalized properly. Someone else can give you beta on that. I'm pooped....
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nonick
Jun 8, 2005, 4:55 AM
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You should have someone teach you how to setup a top rope anchor. It wud be incredibly stupid to get injured while top roping...
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live2climb
Jun 8, 2005, 5:47 AM
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to sucure your webing around the tree tie it off with a WATER knot and leave at least 3 inces of tail on both sides
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drector
Jun 8, 2005, 6:56 AM
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In reply to: All this makes sense, and I really appreciate the feedback. But what exactly is the best way to tie the top rope carabiners to the tree? What exactly is webbing? (Sorry, gear terminology gets me...) Does webbing usually come in a loop, so I can wrap it around the tree and pass it through itself? If using a regular rope, should I use a specific kind, and what kind of knot should I use?
I take back what I said before about just doing it. It's clear from this information, like not knowing what webbing is or what knots are appropriate, that you are not qualified to set up a top rope anchor yourself. It almost sounds like you are not qualified to tie the knot on your harness.
You ought to get a few climbing books and read up so that you can at least understand the terminology before you start asking more questions. the answers will l then make a lot more sense. "How to Rock Climb" by John Long has good information about anchors as well as other climbing information you will eventually need to know. "Toproping" by S. Peter Lewis is not much cheaper but is smaller than the J.L. book and focuses on top roping. It's didn't have good diagrams of tree anchors so you might as well go for teh John Long book. "Climbing Anchors" also by John Long has a tony bit about using natural anchors but the rest of it is also very interesting reading. If your gonna read something, these are all good but seriously consider spending a few bucks more and getting "Mountaineering - The Freedom of the Hills" by The Mountaineers. It's the bible of climbing mostly because of it's coverage of almost all forms of climbing, maountaineering, orienteering, and other things.
Oh, and "OnRope" by Bruce Smith and Allen Padgett is the "bible" for caving. It's also very comprehensive but it's not quite focused on rock climbing some some echniques are described and done a little differently. Tree anchors are certainly done differently than the simple one you might use in this top rope set up. Still a very interesting book.
Or just take a class.
Dave
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azrockclimber
Jun 8, 2005, 11:51 AM
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a HUGE tree sounds great. However the "loop" sounds a little suspect.
Two webbing loops tied with a water knot and then girth hitched around the tree should do it just fine.
the webbing shohuld be 1" tubular
it should be long enopugh so it makes it over the edge.
if the edge is a sharp edge you should try and protect the webbing with a small tarp/ jacket/ stuff like that. two locking carabiners should be put through both eqaulized pieces of webbing..
really easy..really fast..thats it.
now take this info and have someone demonstrate it.
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j_ung
Jun 8, 2005, 12:54 PM
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In reply to: Go with someone who knows!!!
In reply to: There are several good schools on the east coast. Just do a local Goggle search on climbing schools and I'm sure you can find a good program.
In reply to: ...go with someone who knows...
In reply to: the best advice so far is to go climbing with someone experienced and get them to teach you how to tie anchors.
In reply to: ...please don't do this by yourself.
In reply to: There's nothing like having a friend who knows show you though and even better to check your set up a time or two before you go it alone!!
In reply to: You should have someone teach you how to setup a top rope anchor. It wud be incredibly stupid to get injured while top roping...
In reply to: It's clear from this information, like not knowing what webbing is or what knots are appropriate, that you are not qualified to set up a top rope anchor yourself.
In reply to: now take this info and have someone demonstrate it.
Just in case ya missed that part. :)
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taino
Jun 8, 2005, 1:20 PM
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In reply to: All this makes sense, and I really appreciate the feedback. But what exactly is the best way to tie the top rope carabiners to the tree? What exactly is webbing? (Sorry, gear terminology gets me...) Does webbing usually come in a loop, so I can wrap it around the tree and pass it through itself? If using a regular rope, should I use a specific kind, and what kind of knot should I use?
Oh, fer fuck's sake...
If you don't know the answers to those questions already, then you have no business risking someone else's life through your ignorance by setting up a top rope at this time.
Take a lesson - or two, or three, or four - on anchor building from a licensed guide service.
Read "How To Rock Climb", "Climbing Anchors", "Knots for Climbers" and learn to do the things they discuss.
Most importantly - DO NOT LEARN TO CLIMB VIA INFORMATION YOU HEAR FROM STRANGERS, ESPECIALLY ON THE INTERNET.
T
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jammer
Jun 8, 2005, 2:05 PM
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Well, by now you probably feel like shit, so I won't jump on the same boat. I will, however, share what I've done with beginners. Set you an area where you can try setting up a top rope. I did this using a few trees around the house. We pretended that we were on a high cliff and preformed the anchor setup at ground level. You can test your setup with out dangering anyone. Of course, this will mean that you will first have to read the information (books listed above (plus Mountaineering Handbook)). You can also pratice you knots without any danger.
I will agree that the best way is to be taught by an experienced climber then pratice at home.
Have fun, Be Safe and Climb ON!
hj
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wingnut
Jun 8, 2005, 2:06 PM
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In reply to: a HUGE tree sounds great. However the "loop" sounds a little suspect. Two webbing loops tied with a water knot and then girth hitched around the tree should do it just fine. the webbing shohuld be 1" tubular it should be long enopugh so it makes it over the edge. if the edge is a sharp edge you should try and protect the webbing with a small tarp/ jacket/ stuff like that. two locking carabiners should be put through both eqaulized pieces of webbing.. really easy..really fast..thats it. now take this info and have someone demonstrate it.
http://www.rock-climbing.ws/natural-anchors/ this gives a pretty good explanation. (scroll down)
And buy a good book.
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happiegrrrl
Jun 8, 2005, 3:36 PM
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Who was it that said:
"Ask not for whom the thread trolls; it trolls for thee."
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jt512
Jun 8, 2005, 3:39 PM
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In reply to: If you can remember to use two carabiners...
If you can remember?
-Jay
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renohandjams
Jun 8, 2005, 4:09 PM
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JUST ALWAYS REMEMBER THE RULE OF THREE. Three backups. Whenever we set up top ropes, around a tree or a boulder, eventhough it might be a BFT (I like that), as posted above, or something that is bomber, it only takes a minute to throw two nuts or cams on the side, or anchor off on the next tree and then don't forget to equalize it all. It won't help if you put in three points and then when the main goes the others get shock loaded.
I would get a nut set and maybe a equalizer, or make your own equalizer set up.
---------------------------------------------
-Kenny
http://www.TradRack.com
FREE EMAIL ACCOUNTS, yourname@TradRack.com, only 100 to give.
Email yourname@TradRack.com, and the name you want.
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drector
Jun 8, 2005, 4:18 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: If you can remember to use two carabiners... If you can remember? -Jay
Sorry. Should have said "If you KNOW to use two carabiners..."
Bad choice of words on my part.
Dave
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scottb63
Jun 8, 2005, 5:21 PM
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Static line will always work when there is a large tree or two on top of the climb. There will be plenty of times when you will be waiting for days to get on those climbs. There are other ways to set up anchors by placing gear. You will definitely want to learn this so you don't limit yourself to what you can climb. You will need to take a lesson to do this safely, because there are too many ways to screw it up. Its sucks to shell out big bucks for a lesson but it sucks more to wait at the base of the cliff for a climb to open up.
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