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bouldersdothebodygood
Oct 25, 2005, 3:00 AM
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In the most recent issue of Climbing magazine which is dedicated to bouldering, the idea of having a rating system for the "regular" stumpy topout bouldering problems, and a different one for traverses and climbs longer than 20 or so moves. i was wondering what the rest of the bouldering world though about this?
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dubforceone
Oct 25, 2005, 3:11 AM
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Im not to concerned with what rating scale is used...ratings just tell me if something is completely over my head or worth giving a try...I do know that gunsmoke in j-tree pretty rough for a v2...although most of the moves are not that difficlult you have to be in real good shape..
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curt
Oct 25, 2005, 4:15 AM
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In reply to: ...I do know that gunsmoke in j-tree pretty rough for a v2...although most of the moves are not that difficlult you have to be in real good shape..
Perhaps because Gunsmoke isn't really a boulder problem--it's a traversing 5.11 route that you don't need a rope for.
Curt
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bouldersdothebodygood
Oct 25, 2005, 4:43 AM
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hey curt, that is kind of the point. should long traverses be rated in the sport climb category? or bouldering or something new?
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phaedrus
Oct 25, 2005, 3:09 PM
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Ugh... just what the world needs... one more thing to complicate a pretty simple activity and one more thing for climbers to argue and bicker about. :P :roll:
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landgolier
Oct 25, 2005, 3:38 PM
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Even if you care about grades, I think once you get over about V3 the equivalency of the various V and YDS grades is pretty well established. I think the real controversy comes up because of sponsorship, where a lot of the guys who are pulling the sicko-mondo short problems feel like they have to compete for status and $$ with people who are pulling long routes close to the ground and deriving some of the difficulty from the sustained nature of the routes. Given that there are approximately zero v13+ sponsored climbers on this site and nobody involved in this discussion who can climb wheel of life or witness the fitness, I suggest we all shut our yaps and go climbing.
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bouldersdothebodygood
Oct 26, 2005, 2:33 AM
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Sorry landgolier it was just a question. No need to snap dude!
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landgolier
Oct 26, 2005, 3:17 AM
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not snapping, just saying, this is one step away from "batman could beat up superman."
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pbjosh
Oct 26, 2005, 3:34 AM
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There are traverse grades seperate from boulder and route grades in the french system, for what it's worth.
It gets confusing when you see someone on a traversing boulder problem and you don't know if it's 8a traverse or 8a boulder, it just says "Monsieur Lefrog en La Va A Le Blahblah, 8a"
I really don't think a third system is necessary.
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curt
Oct 26, 2005, 4:57 AM
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In reply to: hey curt, that is kind of the point. should long traverses be rated in the sport climb category? or bouldering or something new?
I don't think there is an exact answer to your question, but classic old school (i.e Gill, Holloway, etal.) boulder problems were rarely more than a half-dozen or so difficult, gymnastic type moves--and often had fewer moves than that. When endurance begins to be the determining factor for success, rather than power, I would say you have departed the realm of bouldering, as it was originally defined, and moved on to something else.
Curt
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roshiaitareya
Oct 26, 2005, 5:05 AM
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So why not just call them V2 sustained for longer V2's or V2T for long traverses or something of the sort? I don't know, I just check the tag to see if I can do it or not. If it says V2 and I can't do it I'm not going to piss and moan about how it's rated unfairly, I'm just going to move on to another problem.
P.S. Superman could whip batman because superman is invincible
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rainontin
Oct 27, 2005, 10:46 PM
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In reply to: P.S. Superman could whip batman because superman is invincible
Superman is a chump. Batman, hands down.
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robbleebob
Oct 27, 2005, 11:39 PM
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I don't think there is anything wrong with a new system. There are obviously some people in the community who feel that their climbs aren't well labeled. Let them make the new system, feel special, and then we can all ignore/embrace it if we choose. I am happy that people are still developing new parts of climbing, and pushing conventional bouldering techniques to develop. I personally enjoy longer bouldering problems that require me to work on technique while pumped, and that I can do it on my own if no patner is free. However, the idea of adding on to the current "V" system, as mentioned before, does make the most sense. Hope it goes well!!
PS- Batman all the way!!
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timhinck
Nov 1, 2005, 5:55 PM
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I agree with the Font-grade system that simply posts a description to the rating. basically, "6c traverse" means "this is a 6c if you like traverses but probably will feel harder if you don't". I think there is really only one other factor that could make a difference in the grade noticable enough to warrant a grade change or specification: endurance.
I agree with the common consensus that height or scare factor should NOT change the grade, but only be considered by the boulderer before he hops on the problem.
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gnat
Nov 1, 2005, 6:11 PM
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Superman could whip batman because superman is invincible
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gnat
Nov 1, 2005, 6:14 PM
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Superman could whip batman because superman is invincible
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jupalon
Nov 1, 2005, 6:22 PM
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I thought that there were to separate approaches to grading straight ups and traverses, at least as far as Font-grading goes. So there are to separate grading systems in one sense, but they are pronounced the same way: E.g. 7A, but then there's a difference between a 6A traverse and a 7A straight up.
That's at least my experience :roll:
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jupalon
Nov 1, 2005, 6:23 PM
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I thought that there were to separate approaches to grading straight ups and traverses, at least as far as Font-grading goes. So there are to separate grading systems in one sense, but they are pronounced the same way: E.g. 7A, but then there's a difference between a 6A traverse and a 7A straight up.
That's at least my experience :roll:
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gnat
Nov 1, 2005, 10:51 PM
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Famous quotes by iltrip:
"I have no clue....." Thu Sep 15, 2005
After a brief chuckle at the decent rope, we walked on down the gully Tue Sep 27, 2005
learn to spell you clueless gumby.
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angry
Nov 1, 2005, 10:59 PM
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I've always used the YDS system for crack boulder problems and V for more traditional.
For me, the problem is already solved. Rate it what it feels like.
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jemco
Nov 1, 2005, 11:31 PM
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I think in these discussions it is important to check the history of ratings. The whole concept of rating a climb (long, short, boulder, traverse, whatever) stems from two things: 1)the desire to quantify our accomplishments 2)the desire to choose routes that were reasonable (and perhaps safer) for climbers that would follow. Verm, for instance didn't need to call Local Flakes V2 for his benefit, he clearly knew how hard that problem was, but instead labeled it V2 for others that would later climb it (or not waste their time as it was too hard, etc.) I believe the current V scale still accounts for both of these issues even with traverses. Certainly a V9 "move" after 46 other moves would not be simply called V9 because it would "feel" harder after all those moves. Additionally, most traverses say "traverse" in their description and make it quite obvious they will be longer. Really we need to remember that all climbers choose problems (even within each grade) based on any number of criteria beyond the grade. When Lisa Rands wants to send a V12, you can be certain that she investigates which V12 is most likely to go for her--based on style of climbing (slopers, crimpers, reachy, powerful, etc) as well as the grade. Before too long we'll need a sloper grade, a crimpy grade, a reachy grade, a powerful grade, a technical grade, a..... you get the point.
I say NO, we don't need a "new" rating system, we simply need to use the one we have.
jemco
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fracture
Nov 2, 2005, 12:27 AM
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In reply to: I don't think there is an exact answer to your question, but classic old school (i.e Gill, Holloway, etal.) boulder problems were rarely more than a half-dozen or so difficult, gymnastic type moves--and often had fewer moves than that. When endurance begins to be the determining factor for success, rather than power, I would say you have departed the realm of bouldering, as it was originally defined, and moved on to something else.
But that doesn't necessarily mean a single rating system is incoherent.
Should short power routes get V grades instead of YDS grades? (You know better than I do that there are plenty of old school boulder problems originally rated using the YDS.) What about comparing 5-10 meter power-endurance routes with 110ft endurance routes? How many rating systems do we need?
To me it's all the same, and the problems of having a single rating system are fewer than the problems and confusions of having multiple rating systems (cf. the font traverse grade stuff mentioned earlier).
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daithi
Nov 2, 2005, 12:33 AM
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There seems to be a bit of misconception here about the French grading system. Here is my attempt to clear it up a small bit!
The French sport grade is for routes and is a measure of the overall difficulty of a particular route not the hardest move. It is normally written 7a (in your money YDS 5.11d). Below is a conversion table.
http://www.rockfax.com/.../trad_grade_safe.pdf
The Font grade originated in Fontainbleau and is used for boulders. Although easily confused with the sport grade it is totally different. The convention http://8a.nu uses is to write it 7A (in your money V6). It is also written as Font 7a.
http://www.rockfax.com/...fs/boulder_grade.pdf
Where it gets confusing is long traverses (which share more in common with routes really) are normally given a sports grade not a Font grade. So our traverse that is given a sports grade of 7a could also be given as Font 6a+.
Where I climb in the UK on the south coast, we use English trad grades for trad climbs, French sports grades for sports routes and your very own V grade for boulder problems. Confusing! :)
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iltripp
Nov 2, 2005, 1:56 AM
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In reply to: Famous quotes by iltrip: "I have no clue....." Thu Sep 15, 2005 After a brief chuckle at the decent rope, we walked on down the gully Tue Sep 27, 2005 learn to spell you clueless gumby.
Dude... get a fvcking life.
I jokingly responded to your idiocy about superman and batman and you decided to look up my past posts and find a single spelling error. Are you an adolescent or just retarded?
Grow up, fvcktard.
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