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binky
Nov 9, 2005, 10:26 PM
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Registered: Oct 21, 2005
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Okay,
well I just got back from Zion and had a great time. we did Spaceshot and it was a ball. But oh boy , am I the slowest leader in all leaderdom! It took us 2+ days to climb spaceshot! A punters route! Ok, my partner was a little slow on cleaning and I would have to wait a while after hauling each pitch, but oh my god. Leading pitches would take 1.5 to 3 hours!! on C1 stuff. I am an embarrassment to slow aid climbers. Is there any help for me? maybe i need more gear - bigger nuts perhaps? maybe I need direction -no more falling- I must move UP? Maybe more drugs? oh well, just disappointed at my (lack of) progress . thanks for the opertunity to rant - DAMN. What's a boy to do!
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cracklover
Nov 9, 2005, 10:49 PM
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Registered: Nov 14, 2002
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Falling? On C1?
Uh... ???
GO
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roshiaitareya
Nov 9, 2005, 10:51 PM
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Registered: Mar 23, 2004
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maybe some practice
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binky
Nov 9, 2005, 10:56 PM
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Registered: Oct 21, 2005
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uhh is right!!
Falling on C1 - what is up with that!!
Anyone climb in zion, that sh*# is sandy and nothin like C1 in the valley.
I blew out a green camalot in some not so good placement(obviously). One second I was on the piece , 2cd stepping, grabbing gear for the next placement and the next second I was like " whoa - cool, the rock is like moving really fast in front of me - bummer"
yeah and practicing. How novel. on practice I can crusie - don't quite get it myself..
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areuinclimber
Nov 9, 2005, 11:07 PM
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shit thats how fast i climb.
around 1.5 hrs to climb with a partner and a smidge under 3 when soloing.
and fuck yea, i've fallen hard on C1...TWICE.
it doesnt matter how fast you climb if you've got no where to be...enjoy it. you cant help but get faster if you keep doing it.
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dingus
Nov 9, 2005, 11:30 PM
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"The Fish" (I bet dangle will agree with this too, as I've seen a vid of how he aid climbs) says:
the number one reason for noobs wasting time on easy aid leads is futzing around in the bottom step. He says you should NEVER stand in the bottom steps of your aiders while leading. You should step in and STEP UP, immediately, without all the typical noob futzing and double checking and 2nd guessing.
Move up to your highest step, fifi in if you must (most decent aid climbers aren't using fifi's and 4 aiders on c1 ground, unless it is SUPER steep), and then place your next piece. Clip it, test it and repeat. Pretend your aiders are on fire and you will fall out if you stand there too long. MOVE!
Remember the first Rambo movie, where he's running up the hill and drops in dispair cause he can't breathe? He says to himself urgently, 'gotta keep moving, gotta keep mioving."
Well, ya gotta keep moving! (you may need to find a faster partner or one in better shape to jug?)
I use two aiders now with a 3rd on the back of the harness should I have to stand in place too long.
I recommend you get Ron Olevsky's clean aiding video, produced by Jeff Lowe. Just watch it, watch him how he moves up in the aiders. I think you will find 5 minutes of watching that vid will illustrate some of the ways you're wasting time.
Took Burl and I 2.3 days to do Leaning Tower bro, for all those same reasons. Its part of the learning curve?
Cheers
DMT
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dig_scott
Nov 10, 2005, 3:16 AM
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keep moving but let faster parties by
what days were you on space shot? drove around the canyon monday about 4 ish and saw some people up there.
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p0bray01
Nov 10, 2005, 3:52 AM
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yep definitely bigger nutz......... :lol: :lol:
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bsmoot
Nov 10, 2005, 5:42 AM
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Don't use daisy chains on C1...the extra clips slow you down.
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epic_ed
Nov 10, 2005, 6:15 AM
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Moving quicker only comes with practice. I'm not certain of your experience level, but the times you indicated are about right for climbing teams new to big walls. There are some legit C2 sections on Spaceshot. Nothing terribly difficult, but mistakes are easy if you're not familiar with Zion sandstone.
Practice, practice, practice.
Nice job completeing the route despite the challenges.
Ed
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vegastradguy
Nov 10, 2005, 6:29 AM
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welcome to the club. this is why i did one wall and one wall only (well, so far, anyway)....
150' of C1 ground for my gumby ass is about 2-2.5hrs!
however, Dingus' advice is good- especially if you choose to continue in the insanity that is aid climbing.
now, if i can just learn to do the same, i could actually do a wall now and then...
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drunkenmonkey
Nov 21, 2005, 1:48 PM
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Hey hey
don't worry your just at the stage of development. Your learning a new skill and it takes time to become proficient. I liked the comment about pretending your aiders are on fire. To get myself moving faster on bigwalls I set myself a goal on each pitch I led. I would set my stop watch for 1hr or whatever I thought was a good time and then try to beat it. It gives you something to focus on beyond the immediate problems. And totally get as high as you can on your aiders as quick as you can it makes a huge difference.
Have fun on your next wall high stepping mofo! :lol: :lol: :shock:
Take it easy
p
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rockguide
Nov 21, 2005, 2:46 PM
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Registered: Nov 8, 2004
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Hey Binky,
I hear your pain ... I remember starting out, the incredible tangle of gear, the slow erasage of time, the good placements seemed just out of reach from in my bottom steps and I was doing the sketchy middle moves.
It just takes milage. Keep given er, but ....
(puts on flame retardant suit)
maybe practice on less classic routes than space shot. Sure, you deserve them as much as anyone but if people are showing up and bottlenecking behind you the social tension can go way high ... and that won't make you faster or help your learning curve. tension is high enough on early leads.
maybe find short (1-3 pitch) crack routes to practice on. You will learn faster when you are less tired (shorter days, no hauling) and when you make it back to Zion the investment of a few of these days will pay ... big time. It is what I did, and although the first walls were still really hard, they were not as hard as what you described.
We all deserve to be on classic routes, but we also deserve more fun and less pain.
just my (anticipating flames and accusations of elitism) $.02
Brian
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binky
Nov 21, 2005, 4:15 PM
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Registered: Oct 21, 2005
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elitism! elitism!!
How dare you point out ways to improve and cluster a classic route!! (ok- please read the sarcasm here).
I am acutely aware of the speed I am going and would never hold anyone up. the party ahead of us did it in a day. And there was nobody behind us the whole time. So we had the food, had the water and had the time so we took it. And the sad part of this whole thing ..... I have been aid climbing for a while. I climbed the prow, WFLT, SF of WC, the shield and Zodiac (well 1/2 way - i got skerd). So I know the deal. I am just one slow mutha..
I guess I will just keep practicing and keep having a good time. Maybe if we didn't bring that 2 cases of beer on Zodiac we would've finished....
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rockguide
Nov 21, 2005, 4:34 PM
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In reply to: elitism! elitism!! I guess I will just keep practicing and keep having a good time. Maybe if we didn't bring that 2 cases of beer on Zodiac we would've finished....
No, do bring the beer. Cutting back on safety equipment is always a bad idea.
LOL - I guess you have had plenty of practice and are just slow ... and man enough to admit it. I admit I am a slow driver - always at half the speed limit, veering back and forth from the right-hand lane into the edge of the passing lane with my left turn signal perpetually on. I get so many friendly waves! So many nice people!
Brian
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ricardol
Nov 21, 2005, 7:42 PM
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Registered: Nov 11, 2002
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i found that the following things sped up my aid climbing
1 - use 2 aiders instead of 4
2 - dont use the daisy chains (or use them less)
3 - practice, practice, practice ..
4 - hit the 2nd step on most of your placements.. (i used to climb from my 3rd step) --
if you can get a hand hold of something above you, then go for the top step
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binky
Nov 21, 2005, 8:27 PM
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Registered: Oct 21, 2005
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Thanks all,
Yeah, I have marked my second steps. I think I just take too much time futzing with my adj. daisies(and I rarely pull them tight at all ) and trying to get my damn fifi hook onto the placement. How do you hang out on steep (just vertical) terrain to figure out your next placement, grab it and put it in? How to you keep from blowing out your arm keeping yourself from flipping over backward? I know my ass isn't that big that I keep falling on it but I just don't get how how you reach those high placements without a fifi to keep you on the wall?
AARRRGGHH
and 2 aiders - so you are always standing on 1 foot while you place your next peice?
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epic_ed
Nov 21, 2005, 8:47 PM
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Nope -- once you're able to un-weight the lower piece, you bring that ladder/daisy up to the ladder/daisy you're moving up to and clip it in. You'll learn how and where to clip this one as you practice. They key to remember, this is the ladder/daisy you'll need to free up to clip in to the next piece you're moving up to. Keep it un-clusterfvcked and you'll find yourself leap-frogging ladders in no time.
Ed
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stymingersfink
Nov 22, 2005, 8:22 PM
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Registered: Aug 12, 2003
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A snail moving down the sidewalk is accosted by a pair of turtles. He is left in the gutter, beaten and robbed. When the cops get there and ask him "What happened" the snail replies:
"I... I don't know... it all happened so fast!" :lol:
Keep the cluster management in top trim, always replace an un-used piece to its place on the rack, and always be moving up. As stated above: don't look for the next placement until AT LEAST in the 3rd step or higher, and check Dangle's video out for speed over relatively easy terrain.
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johngo
Dec 9, 2005, 8:19 AM
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Registered: Aug 24, 2005
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and where might we find the soon-to-be-famous Dangle video?
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elepita
Dec 9, 2005, 9:19 AM
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Registered: Jun 23, 2005
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Well, I did yesterday my first C2 aid pitch, a 30 metres traverse underneath a big roof, included a little pendulum to reach another crack system (my first pendulum as well). It finished with stepping out of my aiders for some 5.6 free climbing, just 4/5 metres. Anyway, it took me 3 hours for 30 metres...talking about slow! I used only 2 aiders...it was my second aid pitch and my first C2, so I hope I get a bit faster with practice. The problem was that the traverse was difficult to protect, the crack had some vegetation I had to clean, plus non of my placements were bomber, at least I did not feel they were, they were not bad but not bomber, in fact I fell once (my first fall on a piece of gear, a yellow alien, yeiii!), not a very long fall but still a fall. I have been reading your advices for speed and I will definitely put some in practice, for the rest, I think it comes with practice practice practice!! Cheers!
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asuclimber
Dec 9, 2005, 9:33 AM
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Registered: Jun 10, 2005
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Fast is relative. As long as you have fun, who cares? I think I'd rather go slow and have fun than be stressed out the whole time about moving quickly. If your goal is to go fast, yeah, refine your technique. But there is nothing wrong with just chilling and going at a pace that feels comfortable and lets you enjoy your time on the wall. If you don't enjoy it, then whats the point?
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fallingrock
Dec 9, 2005, 1:31 PM
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Registered: Jun 16, 2005
Posts: 33
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Don't some people spend months bumming on the walls in Yosemite?
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