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montafoner
Nov 23, 2005, 5:25 PM
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I'm looking for some input on tools. In the near future I will be doing some basic climbs in the Alps, about 80-90% snow with some ice and rock thrown in for good measure, maybe more if I can find a mentor/partner. I will also start ice climbing this winter in the North East (Adirondacks and NH). Most will be ice gullys and less than vertical ice so I don't want some fru-fru tools that come with color-coordinated lycra tights.
Right now I'm looking for a tool with a relatively straight shaft (for plunging and piolet work) but with at least some curvature to prevent knucke bashing as I learn good ice technique. I've read many reviews on this site and elsewhere and have narrowed my choices down to the BD Rage and the CM Aztar.
I like the CM Aztars because I've been able to fondle them in the shop and like their feel and grip shape (and are just $152 at EMS this week). I like the modular aspect of the Rages and their utilitarian design and interchangable picks. Should I go with two hammers or one hammer and one adze?
Any recommendations either way? I know there are many more relevant tools out there, but can't find many in local shops. I want to test the goods before I make the commitment (in reference to tattooedclimber).
Thanks for your help.
Cheers,
Montafoner
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oafy
Nov 23, 2005, 6:14 PM
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RAGES with the BD leashes are sick...get those
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oafy
Nov 23, 2005, 6:16 PM
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RAGES with the BD leashes are sick...get those
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montafoner
Nov 23, 2005, 6:37 PM
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oafy, judging by your double post I'll have to get two ;) Which leashes are you referring to, the Robo's?
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e_wire
Nov 23, 2005, 6:51 PM
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Aztar are way better then the BD... I tried both and the CM have a way better swing. They're also lighter which reduces the "pump" factor considerably.
You might also considar the X-ALP by Cassin. Also a very good choice, and cheaper then BD and CM.
http://www.cassin.it/...cheda.asp?Codice=200
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jackscoldsweat
Nov 23, 2005, 6:53 PM
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ultimately is boils down to what feels best in your hand. being easy to fix/replace parts is also important. the simple fact that you may be climbing in the alps would suggest that you purchase one adze and one hammer. however if just climbing water ice, two hammers is all you need.
if possible, get out and swing both before dropping the coin.
both are good tools. although you'll find more alpine climbers west of the pond using rages than aztars. availability probably has something to do with that.
best,
JCS
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montafoner
Nov 23, 2005, 7:21 PM
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e-wire,
the x-alp looks cool too. So many choices... I might have to wait to borrow or rent some tools for a day. I haven't actually held a Rage, are there any shops in NJ that carry them? The Aztar feels nice. Next time I'll have to bring a glove and see how it feels.
I'm leaning toward the Aztars because they feel so good in the hand, but haven't swung them at all (most shops don't like holes in their walls). I'm not ruleing out the Rages yet.
Current Stats
Rage: 1
Aztar: 1
Other: 1
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adeptus
Nov 23, 2005, 7:43 PM
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I found the BD Rage to be quite heavy to swing with, but I haven't climbed with them, so I can't say more about them.
On the other hand I have climbed a lot with the CM Aztars. They are really light and have a great swing. They are a perfect tool for alpine climbing, where weight is a concern and you need to be able to swing them above your head for hours on end. Go for an axe and a hammer if you plan og doing classic routes, where you might want to chop some ice once in a while.
For really hard water ice they are not the best though. They are simply too light and causes a lot of fracturing in the ice. But that's usually not a problem on alpine routes where the ice is more plastic.
Hope that helped you...
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climbxclimb
Nov 23, 2005, 8:27 PM
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Aztar!! No doubt about them!
I have the for alpine routes and they are great also on vertical ice
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pico23
Nov 23, 2005, 10:32 PM
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Registered: Mar 14, 2003
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In reply to: I'm looking for some input on tools. In the near future I will be doing some basic climbs in the Alps, about 80-90% snow with some ice and rock thrown in for good measure, maybe more if I can find a mentor/partner. I will also start ice climbing this winter in the North East (Adirondacks and NH). Most will be ice gullys and less than vertical ice so I don't want some fru-fru tools that come with color-coordinated lycra tights. Right now I'm looking for a tool with a relatively straight shaft (for plunging and piolet work) but with at least some curvature to prevent knucke bashing as I learn good ice technique. I've read many reviews on this site and elsewhere and have narrowed my choices down to the BD Rage and the CM Aztar. I like the CM Aztars because I've been able to fondle them in the shop and like their feel and grip shape (and are just $152 at EMS this week). I like the modular aspect of the Rages and their utilitarian design and interchangable picks. Should I go with two hammers or one hammer and one adze? Any recommendations either way? I know there are many more relevant tools out there, but can't find many in local shops. I want to test the goods before I make the commitment (in reference to tattooedclimber). Thanks for your help. Cheers, Montafoner
Don't eliminate the grivel Alp Wing or the CM Axar (if you can still find it). The alp wing is lighter than the rages and aztars. The Axar was a modular do it all axe very similar to the Rage. Of course the Alp Wing is the only tool I haven't used. That said, I'm going with it this X-mas because it looks like the perfect tool for my needs.
The utility of the adze is often forgotten. Quite honestly I've only chopped steps a few times and that was with a mountaineering axe. But for moderate alpine routes I think an adze is a good thing to have. If you were just climbing steep waterfalls you might prefer two hammers. That said I have used the adze on my ice tools quite a bit to chop out the area around a set screw or to clear the top layer of bad ice when looking to place a screw.
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johngenx
Nov 23, 2005, 11:08 PM
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I think the selection of ice tools is too personal for someone to say "you must get X!" I rented some tools to try some different models and found the Aztars ideal for me, however some I know can't stand them. I didn't like the OE leashes, finding them clunky to get in and out of.
As to hammer vs. adze, I suppose it depends on where you're going and what you'll need to do with them. If you're going alpine and won't have a general mountaineering axe along, I'd sure want to have an adze somewhere. As said, it's great for clearing rotten snow/ice away for a good screw placement and for chopping steps. Sometimes it's nice to hack a little platform to take a breather on...
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lhwang
Nov 24, 2005, 12:11 AM
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Registered: Aug 4, 2005
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I have Aztars (2 hammers) and think they are great. Mainly using them for vertical ice... not so much general mountaineering.
My partner has a pair of BD rages that he is looking to sell. PM if you're interested.
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timd
Nov 24, 2005, 1:35 AM
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Registered: Dec 21, 2003
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I would love to find a set of Axars', I have a set of Aztars and love them.
They would be my recommendation.
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rhyang
Nov 24, 2005, 1:57 AM
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Registered: Nov 10, 2004
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In reply to: The alp wing is lighter than the rages and aztars.
The alp wing is heavier than the aztar, but lighter than the rage.
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tuna
Nov 24, 2005, 2:15 AM
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Registered: Mar 28, 2004
Posts: 188
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I like the Aztar.
You can change picks.
You can switch from the clipper leash to the freelock leash since the shaft already has the clipper leash bolt hole.
Or if your feeling frisky you can forget the leashes.
Its a hard decision to make. Just make one and stick with it.
Have fun good luck.
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ace_trice
Nov 24, 2005, 3:26 AM
Post #16 of 20
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Registered: Nov 24, 2005
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I would even recommend coughing up a bit more (okay a lot more) and going for the BD Vipers with the fang if you plan on doing more pure ice in the future. I have the Aztars now and I rue the day I listened to the old ice climbers I worked with, who talked me out of buying the Vipers. If you are a rock climber, the Vipers just feel more natural and allow you to more efficiently translate your rock fitness to the ice.
But that's me. Want to buy a pair of Aztars?
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esp71
Nov 25, 2005, 2:26 AM
Post #17 of 20
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I'll vote for the Aztars, I bought them the the first year on Pro deal because it was the only way I could afford to get into Ice, and I love them. I worked at REI for a few months and I swung everything they had, I found that the CM stuff fit my hands and felt good, but the BD's felt awkward. I think it's mostly personal pref.
You might want to consider the Aztarex, which has that cool little pinky shelf in basically the same tool.
If you are going to do a lot of alpine, def. get the adze. You might not need it often, but you'll thank yourself when you do. You can always buy another (hammer) tool, that way you get a third tool, good in serious backcountry situations and you reduce the risk of funny marks on your face when you do gymnastic WI.
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giano
Nov 25, 2005, 11:33 AM
Post #18 of 20
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Registered: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 31
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I use every-times Camp Awax for ice falls (I think it is the best balanced axe) and Alpax for alpine routes.
I suggest you to use these tools, you will know their advantages!
http://www.camp-usa.com/module/product/detail.asp?ID=70
http://www.camp-usa.com/module/product/detail.asp?ID=63
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euroford
Nov 25, 2005, 3:34 PM
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Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 2913
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if you want to save some money, go to sportextreme.com and get a set of grivel lite wings. less than $130/each w/leashes.
otherwise, forget calling the aztars and rages 'alpine' style tools, what they really are is 'cheaper' style tools. if you have the money, go for some vipers, quarks or taa-k-oons. they will do everything in the mountains just as well, but they will climb WI and M much much better.
price should not be the major factor when choosing tools, deciede what you want, reguardless of price and get those.
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graniteavenger
Nov 26, 2005, 6:26 PM
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Registered: May 8, 2004
Posts: 98
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The rages are a fantastic tool. You can tighten/change the pick by using the other pick as a screw driver. Bomber tough you'll be able to beat the crap out of them. Remember, you might be banging pins in with the hammer so a little more weight on the head will make it a bit easier. And they have a pretty even swing. Granted, they are heavier than tha Aztars. But I'm guessing you aren't a 5 pound weakling if you are into ice and alpine, eh? That said, the Aztars are a good price, and they do have that euro-styling to them. You know, the same euro-styling that gives us German techno and mimes. :lol:
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