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abaran
Nov 28, 2005, 6:24 PM
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I'm going to be spending about a week camping and climbing at the Ouray Ice Park this Dec. I have access to both a Jetboil and MSR whisperlite stove (white gas).
What are your winter experiences with Jetboil? Should I just leave it at home and opt for the whisperlite?
In the past I've used the whisperlite to melt snow and eaten dry foods that require no preparation. Does anyone have any experience with freeze dried just add boiling water type foods (ie: backpacker's pantry, etc.) in the winter? Thanks in advance.
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crackers
Nov 28, 2005, 6:49 PM
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I've never used a jetboil.
I have used whisperlite's a lot in the winter, and may i recommend a heat exchanger if you're going to be near the car? They make such a world of difference...i think that jetboil basically is a heat exchanger.
Freeze dried foods in winter? yes, but I prefer the added fat of things like lipton noodles with a whack of butter in them, and maybe some bacon too. :)
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greenketch
Nov 28, 2005, 6:53 PM
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I always "cook in a cup" . Freeze dried add water types are not bad. I prefer to use cous cous and/or other home develped recipes. Hot food and drink is the bomb in cold weather. As to the jet boil, I would say that that has a lot to do with your water source. I have not tried it but melting snow in the small cup of a jet boil seems like an excercise in futility.
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waynebock
Nov 28, 2005, 7:08 PM
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Can't vouch for either stove....we use the Brunton Optimus, which is REALLY SWEET...anyway, we have had no problem cooking and even simple baking in the low 20's (high)...we use stuff similar to Backpacker's Pantry stuff...
http://www.maryjanesfarm.com/..._id=1#Meals/Couscous
This stuff is really delicious...love the chilimac!
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abaran
Nov 28, 2005, 10:01 PM
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crackers: good call on the heat exchanger!
The more I think about this it seems like my best bet is to rely on my good ol' whisperlite and just bring the Jetboil along just to see how it reacts to the cold.
Gah, I should have done more research on that Jetboil before I bought it :(
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rleggett
Nov 28, 2005, 11:08 PM
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Jetboils rock!!! The trick is to keep the canister warm, especially once the gas exchange causes extreme cooling of the canister. I found sticking it in my jacket for a few minutes before firing it up helps. Once you have an initial boil, use the little cup and pour a bit of boiling water in it, then place the canister and stove into the cup of hot water (this only works with the half size canisters that fit inside of the jetboil). You get amazing fuel efficiency. I boiled almost 10 liters of cold ass (32.1 degrees) water at 10,000 ft with the small canisters. I imagine you could get up to twenty with the regular size canister.
I also used a large hose clamp and some 3 mil. cord and rigged my to be a hanging stove. I occasionally just cooked up in the tent and made sure to vent well for gas and humidity. Doing this really warmed up the tent and helped me to dry out, and did not have to worry about the temp of the canister.
Also a good trick for cooking BPP meal is to add 1/2-3/4 the water they recommend, let it cook/soak for ten minutes or so, and then add the remaining water boiled again (I usually add extra water just to hydrate). This will insure that the food is cooked/hydrated, but also hot when you eat it.
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builttospill
Nov 28, 2005, 11:29 PM
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I've been thinking about picking up a pocket rocket by MSR for climbing and backpacking trips. I was wondering what people think of their performance in the cold. I know most reviews say "fair" (including the one on REI's website). I'd probably be using it mostly for winter in Utah, and maybe 1-2 winter trips in the Tetons and Cascades. Would it be sufficient for those purposes? I'm not looking to break the bank, so a slight decline in performance is fine as well as it functions to some degree.
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aj_77
Nov 28, 2005, 11:39 PM
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I second the Jetboil. They rock and are super fast The heat exchange does dramatically increase its efficiency of the stove. But, as rleggett said keep the canister warm (sleeping with it helps as does not having it touch the snow while cooking--put it on a pad or something). Also, if you are melting snow for water, be prepared to use a lot of fuel no matter what stove you are using because it just takes a lot of energy to make 32 degree snow to turn into 32 degree water.
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coreyr
Nov 29, 2005, 12:03 AM
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Jetboils do rock!! I own one. However, during the winter months and cold conditions I would stick with white gas.
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abaran
Nov 29, 2005, 3:47 AM
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sweet! I do believe mine will be hanging soon as well :)
rleggett: You're saying literally a few minutes before you want to use it?! Although, trapsin' around with gas canisters in my pockets isn't too horrible I'd really not like to do it on my first ice climbing outing...with my luck an axe would end up pucturing it and BAM! no more climbing
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macherry
Nov 29, 2005, 10:56 PM
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macherry moved this thread from General to Gear Heads.
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trilogy
Nov 30, 2005, 12:48 AM
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As far as I've heard white gas is better in the snow, although in reading this thread I might opt to try canister and a few of these tricks next time I'm out. I have used the whisper-lite in the snow several times and its preformed flawlessly each time. As far as the meals go there not to bad (I find most hot things aren't) but could use some additives.
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thetroutscout
Nov 30, 2005, 4:27 AM
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I have the MSR Pocket Rocket. It's awesome and my first choice for a 3-season stove. Any weight/performance value that's gained is quickly lost in the cold, especially if the canister is cold. According to MSR even using a windscreen is not advised so insulating it is a problem.
"DO NOT use any windscreen with the stove. Any windscreen, including a
standard MSR windscreen, may cause the canister to explode." -MSR
White gas is really the only way to go if it's really cold or for extended use. It's hard to go wrong with a whisperlite.
^^ike
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mephistopheles
Nov 30, 2005, 5:48 AM
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The best winter camping foods I've had are the Tasty Bite food pouches. Try the Kashmir Spinich one. You just heat the packet in boiling water, then add your boil-in-a-bag rice to the water when the packet's almost done and you're all set to go. Don't even need a bowl, just stuff the rice into the packet and swish it around. I usually need 2 for a full meal.
They are rather spendy, though. Maybe less if you buy them in bulk?
Enertia Foods is another good freezed dried option.
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climbingaggie03
Nov 30, 2005, 6:04 AM
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I've got a pocket rocket and a simmerlite, I like the pocket rocket, and I've used it in cold/snow and it works ok, but it does take alot of fuel to melt snow so I wouldn't take it on a winter trip of any length, I love my simmerlite though, it's lighter than the wisperlite simmers ok, and primes better I think.
Like someone said earlier, you can beat white gas for extended trips, but maybe I'll try a jetboil sometime.
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pico23
Nov 30, 2005, 6:18 AM
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In reply to: In the past I've used the whisperlite to melt snow and eaten dry foods that require no preparation. Does anyone have any experience with freeze dried just add boiling water type foods (ie: backpacker's pantry, etc.) in the winter? Thanks in advance.
White gas vs. canister? not a big difference if you know how to use them. you can't sit your canister on the cold ground and a little pre warming goes a long way. i use my canister in the winter using a homemade hanging stove setup that i got from the this site. morale in winter being able to cook inside a tent (vs. the vestibule) is priceless. and it matches my carry as little clothing as possible philosophy. but beyond an overnight cannisters lose there benefit of being compact and light (or cheap).
i still prefer the utility and cheapness of white gas in all seasons unless fast and light is the primary factor.
so if your camping someplace semi close to the car white gas is the cheapest way to go. if your just basecamping white gas makes sense since the hassel of breaking down the stove isn't an issue. and if your melting/ boiling snow white gas makes even more sense. on longer trips white is a better bet. It's easier to figure out how much to take per person per day and you always know how much you have left.
the only time canisters win is if your trying to go as light as possible (or you just don't completely trust a hanging white gas stove). in terms of cold canisters have been used on almost every expedition to the high camps of Everest and i've use one traversing the presidentials in some reasonably cold weather.
Food: I've never found a brand I couldn't find edible but I'm not picky. Try making your own freeze dried stuff. Off the shelf actually. Those Nile/Knorr soup mixes are good, mashed potatoes, lipton noodles toss it all in a standup ziplock bag. It will be more compact, cheaper, cook faster and often taste better. Bring olive oil for some good additional fat and flavor. The cheapest way to go is just add boiling water to a $0.66 pack of lipton butter noodles and drop the bag back in the pot for a few minutes.
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crackers
Nov 30, 2005, 1:55 PM
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If you're using a canister stove, try to find the thingy that has magnets fastening it to the canister with a little bulb going up into the flame. Or make one yourself out of a piece of copper pipe and hammer that sucker flat, wrapping all the way under the canister...
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brogant
Nov 30, 2005, 2:51 PM
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A canister is the way to go in Winter or high altitude. Much safer inside a tent than the white gas flare up. You do need a heat exchanger made out of copper tubing as suggested above. Cooking inside a tent greatly reduces the amount of fuel that you need and the amount of clothing that you need. No standing around outside in a blizzard. Less fuel and less clothing equals much less weight.
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xtrmecat
Nov 30, 2005, 11:57 PM
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I spend a lot of time outdoors at altitude here in the winter and am very pleased with my whisperlite with the simmerlight valve upgrade. It's a breeze to light and with a wind break every bit as fast at making water as any other stove I've been around. Had a partner that insists on canister stoves and from being around him in the winter just further convinces me that white gas is the only economical, reliable, just get er done, way to go.
Just my opinion, but freeze dried is the way to go if time is a factor, but some home made to rehydrate meals sure do hit the spot when I have the time to do them. Nothing quite as good as home cooking when at my second home. Just my opinion.
Have fun in Ouray.
Bob
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codhands
Dec 1, 2005, 1:07 AM
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Whisperlights warm my nights,
my food, my brew, and boots.
Please do not chide, or deride,
but cannisters chap my hide.
For many I've found, laying on the ground,
instead of packed back into town.
Fat food in the cold, so I've been told,
will keep you warm and good as gold.
Ask the folks up north who munch on blubber,
and swill on the seals oil.
They stay plenty warm despite dark and storm,
during the winter cold and forlorn...
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codhands
Dec 1, 2005, 1:08 AM
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I must be drunk.
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abaran
Dec 5, 2005, 4:03 AM
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HA! THat's great codhands! Sounds like I'm going to just have to get out there and figure out which I prefer. I'll most likely be close to the car :cry: so I might as well bring both and see which works out best.
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jeapord
Dec 5, 2005, 4:38 AM
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I have a pocket rocket and it works well in cold, but if you are going to be in the wind use a cardboard box or buy a windscreen because a ten mile per hour wind will dissipate the heat.
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nrsbrown
Dec 5, 2005, 5:02 PM
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There are different mixtures of canister fuel that offer different solutions. The little jetboil branded canisters seem to do well in the cold, while the mix in larger canisters doesn't do so well I have heard. A friend chose jetboils for a long winter trip due to their weight-per-liter-water-from-snow, but ran into trouble using big canisters. He made a heat exchanger as soon as he got back! Unlike white gas bottles, canisters aren't easially re-pressurized!
Comparing stoves and fuels using the total weight-per-liter-melted seems to be the most important expedition consideration? Jetboils seem to be great for the weight-per-liter-melted measurement, though in boil time they are a bit slower (2 min for 2cups) than the 'flame thrower' stoves out there (<3min for 1L).
Check out http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_Mixtures.htm for some info on different mixtures.
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delcross
Dec 5, 2005, 7:26 PM
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:)
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