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go_dyno
Jan 27, 2006, 10:46 AM
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I read in Climbing Mag that its main complaint about the Viper was the "Viper Android" leash did not allow you to put your hand on top of the tool to plant the spike. BD also makes the all around "Android" leash which works very similar to the dedicated "Viper Android" but does allow the ability to get your hand onto the head to plant the spike.
Which version of the Android leash do most of you use on your Vipers?
I don't want to end up with $160 worth of Android leashes if I pick the wrong pair next week and have to pony-up $80 bucks twice!
God Bless
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euroford
Jan 27, 2006, 1:41 PM
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i use the viper android leash. its true, while clipped into the leash you can't use the axe in 'piolet' position. but i've never needed to do this for waterfall climbing and i've found the viper android leash to be a superior choice for that purpose.
no doubt the non viper specific leash will allow you to adjust it to compensate for this, and maybe if you do 90% alpine stuff with your viper you should go that way. but overall, its an overcomplication of things, the viper specific leashes as so nice and simple.
the viper androids attachment point is low on the shaft, this is why you can't place your hand on top of the axe head, the reason why the attachment point is placed here is becouse its the balance point of the axe, if you let go of the axe its easy to get it back in your hand. if you use the regular androids and place the attachment point higher and let go of the axe you'll end up with the shaft hanging down, and you'll need to do some body english to get it back in your hand.
you can always get a petzl freelock or grivel leash for like $20 for use on alpine climbs when you'll need to use the axe as a piolet. for your more acrobatic waterfall and mixed stuff, you can't beat the viper androids.
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go_dyno
Jan 28, 2006, 6:42 AM
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Thanks Euroford! Seems like solid beta to me. I had read Will Gadd's article on the Androids which was writtten before the dedicated Android Vipers came out, so I was afraid I was really limiting myself with the dedicated model.
God Bless
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sandstone
Feb 9, 2006, 4:50 PM
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Registered: Apr 21, 2004
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I've found that if I loosen the Viper Android wrist strap just enough so that the strap is free to rotate around my wrist, then it's possible to get my hand on top of the tool.
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nsintros
Feb 9, 2006, 5:36 PM
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Registered: Apr 28, 2004
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I say get the regular android *not* the viper android. Get the fang and the strike a little grip tape on the shaft and you have the most versitile tool out there. I use my viper on hard ice routes and mixed climbing with this setup. Its nice to be able to mantel on the top of your tool in some cases, which you just can't do with the viper leash. Plus with the leash set up higher you can match on the shaft for mixed climbs or even on some harder ice routes I've done. Overall its much less restricting and has no downfalls that I can see.
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noface
Feb 9, 2006, 5:55 PM
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Registered: Feb 10, 2004
Posts: 42
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The androids are attacking? Their cutting of peoples heads with their tools? Android snakes too? Evarybody run for your lives!
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kydd76
Feb 9, 2006, 6:10 PM
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Registered: Jun 16, 2005
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I have yet to put leashes on my vipers. With the fang, strike and handle bar tape I have not had a use for leashes. I do have a pair of clutch leashes from Trango, in my parts bag just in case I need leashes.
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forkliftdaddy
Feb 9, 2006, 6:49 PM
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I have had the same experience with the Viper Android that sandstone did. I loosen it enough to rotate and then I can get to the top of the tool with no problem. Of course, with the Fang on the tools, the spike can't stick in ice. It works okay in snow.
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ne_dan
Feb 9, 2006, 7:17 PM
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These are not the Droids you are looking for.
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sandstone
Feb 9, 2006, 7:33 PM
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Registered: Apr 21, 2004
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In reply to: These are not the Droids you are looking for.
Brilliant!
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mankypin
Feb 9, 2006, 8:17 PM
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Registered: Nov 3, 2005
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You're wise to consider the versatility of your new vipers. I have 5 friends who all climb on em and love em. The viper android leash is not as versatile as the regular full length android. I personally think it's a stupid design for anyone who does alpine stuff or wears gloves. While you're in the store, adjust the leash correctly, put on the pair of warm gloves you plan to use outside and try to clip and unclip your leash from the stud on your tool. You may find, (like 4 out of five of my friends did) that it's a total pain in the ass! With my BD Ice gloves on, standing on the ground and the tool placed in the ice, I can unclip the leash after a little struggle but Re-clipping is NOT possible for me. I realize that I climb ice so I must be retarded but BD told me I couldn't operate the viper android leash because, "This is a high end mixed climbing tool and the learning curve is fairly steep". Well, la de da! I was actually climbing ice back when sex was safe and climbing was dangerous, so I'll just say that their response didn't impress me. BD's customer service may be crap, but their tools are still pretty good so I'd recommend getting the full length androids, for what it's worth. Or defy BD's recommendations and re-drill the shaft and place the stud 1" higher, 3 of my friends did that with a drill press and it clips fine then and allows your hand to reach the top of the tool. No problem getting the tool back in your hand either. Here's a picture of your potential predicament.
http://C:\Functions\Viper%20Probs\Photo%202.jpg
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climbingbetty22
Feb 9, 2006, 8:20 PM
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Not that I am an expert, but most of the folks I've seen with Androids leashes use a hose clamp around the balance point which effectively works that same was as the Viper Android. So if you're going to do the same thing to your tools, then I'd say, it really doesn't matter because you're not going to be able to use the tools in a piolet fashion anyway, unless you're going to carry wire cutters with you into the backcountry in the case that you need to use them in that fashion.
I have Vipers too and I went back and forth on the Andriod/Viper Android thing too. In the end, I decided that being able to grasp the top of the tool in a piolet-fashion was unimportant to me because I have never been on an alpine climb. I have fangs on my Vipers and they only really get used for waterfall ice. I ended up with the Androids because they were free (my bf gave them to me off his old Vipers) and they have a hose clamp at the balance point, and a bit of tape build up so that the clip doesn't flop around on me when I'm clipping and unclipping. Cuts down that oh-so-steep learning curve. :wink:
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iceisnice
Feb 10, 2006, 6:58 PM
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Registered: Jun 2, 2004
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i ditched the hose clamp that comes with the leashes and just tape them. if i need to use them for a self arrest or piolet i just cut the tape.
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gunkiemike
Feb 11, 2006, 2:04 AM
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Here's another minor advantage to the regular Andriods: you don't have to have the mounting stud on the "top" of the shaft (top = the surface that faces you). I am among those who find it hard to clip and unclip the leash with all but the thinnest gloves, but when I mounted the Android with the stud on the outer side surface of the tools shaft, it seems easier to operate. Less wrist angulation required. Try it and you'll see what I mean.
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jimdavis
Feb 11, 2006, 5:04 AM
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Registered: May 1, 2003
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I picked up a pair of Vipers and the regular Androids.
1) I decided that if I'm gonna throw down $80 bucks on leashes, then I want to keep them, even if I get new tools!
2) When cruzing WI 2-3...I often choke up on my tools after making a placement. On really easy stuff, I might mantle on the tool heads.
3) I had a hell of a time trying to find Viper Androids....anywhere!
With the regular androids on the tools, and unclipped...they're out of the way for matching hands (with the Strike or something) so I think it's the way to go.
The Viper specific Androids might be a little easier to reclip and all, but I think you get a lot more versatility ouf ot the regualr ones.
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go_dyno
Feb 12, 2006, 10:30 PM
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Registered: May 8, 2005
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Thanks Guys. Lots of good beta.
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sandstone
Feb 21, 2006, 7:17 PM
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Registered: Apr 21, 2004
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In reply to: ... defy BD's recommendations and re-drill the shaft and place the stud 1" higher, 3 of my friends did that with a drill press...
I really like the cleanness of the Viper Android design (as opposed to the regular Androids), except for the the attachment point being too low as mankypin described.
I re-drilled mine to move the attachment point up 1.5 inches, and wrapped some electricians tape to cover the old holes to keep water out. I climbed with them 5 days last week, and didn't have any problems at all.
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