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pico23
Feb 11, 2006, 4:48 AM
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I don't know if anyone uses Gu or Clif Shots on a regular basis but a few weeks ago I did something stupid and didn't eat on the approach (nor drink).
I was bonked when the fun climbing started. I needed some quick energy. I loaded up a mouthful of chocolate which gave me a little pep but not enough to not have to turn around well below the summit.
So I started thinking about Gu. I never used it. I've used honey sticks before and they work but are inconvenient and probably not what I actually needed. I don't tend to eat properly when with a group so the Gu makes a lot of sense.
So I decided to looking into what is in them. For Cliff Shots it's organic brown rice syrup for Gu it's Maltodextrin. These are the main ingredients obviously not the whole list. They both work out to be about 70/30 or 80/20 complex carb/simple sugar.
Anyway, I decided to make my own Gu Goo.
Recipe:
1 21oz jar Brown Rice Syrup
1oz Honey (used to thicken but I like honey so...)
2 packets French Vanilla Instant Breakfast
1 scoop whey protein (probably 60cc size scoop)
2 scoop maltodextrin 120cc
1 TBSP salt
warm water to thin out and blend
It's pretty good and it pepped me up quite a bit the two times I've used it. No sickness or cramping. No sugar spikes. I made about $30 worth of Gu for less than $10. Don't really think the protein is necessary but I figured I'd try it. The instant breakfast provides vanilla flavor, protein and maltodextrin. I'm thinking the next batch might be minus the whey protein. I added the honey to thicken it up after the fact so that could be eliminated too but I don't think it will hurt anything.
Bottom line is all you need is salt, rice syrup, maltodextrin, and perhaps some flavoring such as instant breakfast or cocoa.
Gu is $1 an oz. I have about 25oz of this stuff in my fridge. So I bought a GU flask and am good to go.
After I finish this batch I'll mess around some more and see if it works better minus the protein. It will probably be a few months before this happens.
Next up home-made power bars. I've had them before and found them tasty. Time to come up with a recipe.
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watchme
Feb 11, 2006, 5:55 AM
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I've made my own gu before as well. Brown rice syrup, honey, and a little salt. Pack it in one of those food tubes that people use for things like peanut butter. Seems to work fine for me, and is much cheaper.
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anykineclimb
Feb 11, 2006, 6:29 AM
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Any issues with spoiling of the homemade gu?
Knowing my luck I'll be on the mountain; tired, dehydrated and retching from bad gu...
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nola_angie
Feb 11, 2006, 8:33 AM
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In reply to: Next up home-made power bars. I've had them before and found them tasty. Time to come up with a recipe.
Want tasty power bars? Can do! Toss those nasty health food and sports store energy bars!! They use tofu, but amazingly enough, still tasty!
4 ounces soy protein powder, approximately 1 cup
2 1/4 ounces oat bran, approximately 1/2 cup
2 3/4 ounces whole-wheat flour, approximately 1/2 cup
3/4-ounce wheat germ, approximately 1/4 cup
1/2 teaspoon kosher salt
3 ounces raisins, approximately 1/2 cup
2 1/2 ounces dried cherries, approximately 1/2 cup
3 ounces dried blueberries, approximately 1/2 cup
2 1/2 ounces dried apricots, approximately 1/2 cup
1 (12.3-ounce) package soft silken tofu
1/2 cup unfiltered apple juice
4 ounces dark brown sugar, approximately 1/2 cup packed
2 large whole eggs, beaten
2/3 cup natural peanut butter
Canola oil, for pan
Line the bottom of a 13 by 9-inch glass baking dish with parchment paper and lightly coat with canola oil. Set aside. Preheat the oven to 350 degrees F.
In a large mixing bowl, combine the protein powder, oat bran, wheat flour, wheat germ, and salt. Set aside.
Coarsely chop the raisins, dried cherries, blueberries and apricots and place in a small bowl and set aside.
In a third mixing bowl, whisk the tofu until smooth. Add the apple juice, brown sugar, eggs, and peanut butter, 1 at a time, and whisk to combine after each addition. Add this to the protein powder mixture and stir well to combine. Fold in the dried fruit. Spread evenly in the prepared baking dish and bake in the oven for 35 minutes or until the internal temperature reaches 205 degrees F. Remove from the oven and cool completely before cutting into squares. Cut into squares and store in an airtight container for up to a week.
I'm still tweaking things here and there, but read through it and spin it however you like! I tried omitting ingred. 2-4 and subbing out with an equal part of Kashi High Protien crunch, and it was really good...a little sweet, tho. They do go bad after a bit, unlike the store bars.
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pico23
Feb 11, 2006, 3:36 PM
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In reply to: Any issues with spoiling of the homemade gu? Knowing my luck I'll be on the mountain; tired, dehydrated and retching from bad gu...
Don't know.
I assume with the Carnation Breakfast there is a milk factor (dried skim milk). However, I'm using this in the winter thus far.
Bear in mind, you need to store the bulk in the fridge of freezer. It should keep at least a few weeks in the fridge. Probably months in the freezer.
I don't really see a problem if using a fresh batch on a multiday winter trip. However, I haven't tested it enough. I have some stomach issues anyway so it would be hard for me to tell.
I've wanted one of those vacuum sealers for a while. I'm wondering if they make small enough bags to put it in 1oz or even 2oz packages. I would think a fresh batch vacuum sealed would have no spoiling issues.
Also, a few things. While honey doesn't spoil because it is so dry, i'm thinking brown rice syrup has similar properties, bacteria can't grow in it, once you water it down to a a viscous level suitable for quick drinking it probably loses those properties. but adhering to the above should not be an issue.
i think this worthwhile if you spend 3 or more weekends a month out. You can make it in bulk once a month and you've got about 4oz (or four packages) per day. or if your married or sharing it with your partner it can really cut cost down and offers similar benefits to the real deal.
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crackers
Feb 12, 2006, 12:08 AM
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you can definitely buy food grade 1 to 2 oz baggies that work with vacuum sealers.
You're not going to buy them as 1oz though: you buy a roll, heat seal one end and then vacuum seal the other end.
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watchme
Feb 12, 2006, 1:55 AM
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I have a tube of it that just sits in my pack. It still seems OK. I don't think honey or brown rice syrup need refrigeration.
If other stuff is added it might spoil. I think the honey and brown rice syrup tastes fine, so I don't add anything to it except a little salt for sodium.
And to support the OP's good idea, it is way cheaper, and really easy to make your own Gu. Unless I can get it cheap at Sierra Trading Post, I just make my own.
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pico23
Feb 13, 2006, 2:16 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: Next up home-made power bars. I've had them before and found them tasty. Time to come up with a recipe. Want tasty power bars? Can do! Toss those nasty health food and sports store energy bars!! They use tofu, but amazingly enough, still tasty! 4 ounces soy protein powder, approximately 1 cup 2 1/4 ounces oat bran, approximately 1/2 cup .... I'm still tweaking things here and there, but read through it and spin it however you like! I tried omitting ingred. 2-4 and subbing out with an equal part of Kashi High Protien crunch, and it was really good...a little sweet, tho. They do go bad after a bit, unlike the store bars.
WOW, seems kinda complicated. Well not complicated, just involved. Lots of ingredients. But it's worth a shot. The ones I had a few weeks ago weren't hard in the 20'sF temps like my prepackaged powerbar.
I'll definitely give it a try in a few weeks when I have some time to hunt everything down.
BTW, how long will these keep and how do they need to be stored?
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cully_larson
Feb 13, 2006, 3:21 AM
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In reference to the extra protein, I've heard that it's hard for the body to process protein at high altitudes.
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pico23
Mar 17, 2006, 4:37 AM
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Just an update. I've left this stuff out for over a week in a closed container and no problems. So it's definitely shelf/pack stable for a week or more at room temps. Keep the bulk refigerated or frozen.
In terms of effect. I did notice a slight sugar high but it was sustained for a long time (about 30-45 minutes). I don't doubt the honey had something to do with that so i might leave it out next time. It was much more sustained than honey or chocolate and I didn't crash after.
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builttospill
Mar 17, 2006, 11:45 AM
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pico23:
What was the consistency of the homemade GU? Similar to the store-bought stuff, or what? I have a tendency to be picky about what I eat, although I'll eat anything when hungry. But I do like the flavor of Gu Gel Shots A LOT.
Also, what kind of stomach issues? I have some problems too, and I find that any sort of dairy when active is bad news. Perhaps an instant breakfast substitute that is dairy-free would work in my situation?
More importantly, how long did it take to make this? Just wondering if it is worth the effort for someone already stressed enough with job and school.
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iceisnice
Mar 17, 2006, 5:31 PM
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i use the gels, but honestly, its only because it the only thing i can choke down on an all day climb. anything more solid than that and i get an upset stomach. honestly, i have to agree with Peter Croft's mentality toward it all......you don't need a lot of the fancy stuff. you'd be surprised how far you can get with very little food. most people that have "bonked" are actually just dehydrated. and, most people don't do the kind of climbing where you have to analyze what you are eating to this degree. if you are doing huge, multi day routes...sure. i've done many climbs that have been non-stop efforts for anywhere from 10-20 hrs straight and i don't think it matters what you eat. just pick something that you can actually eat and get down and you'll be fine.
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iceisnice
Mar 17, 2006, 5:39 PM
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one other thing to add.........
the home recipes seem like a good idea, but, what about the cofactors and amino acids (especially leucine) that are present in the gels. they are essential for when you have "bonked" and that is why they are included in the gels. that's what really makes the gels so expensive. the home recipes seem to cover the simple sugars and protein, but what about the other ingredients?
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pinbasher
Mar 17, 2006, 6:00 PM
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I use cliff shots every time I go to the alpine I find I have way more power in my legs and I have less stomach malfunctions when I am on the shots.I read some were that it takes a lot of blood and fluid to digest solid food.The way I look at it the more blood available for my brain and legs the better off my partner and I are.As for cost it gets a bit steep as almost all my outings are around 15 hours but I think it is worth it.The only down side is my stomach feels like I am starving even though my blood sugar levels are up at a good level and I feel strong.Also I seem to drink on a more regular basis as I take a gel and a sip every 30 or 40 min and It takes me alot less time to recoup for the next dance.
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pico23
Mar 18, 2006, 5:33 AM
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In reply to: i use the gels, but honestly, its only because it the only thing i can choke down on an all day climb. anything more solid than that and i get an upset stomach. honestly, i have to agree with Peter Croft's mentality toward it all......you don't need a lot of the fancy stuff. you'd be surprised how far you can get with very little food. most people that have "bonked" are actually just dehydrated. and, most people don't do the kind of climbing where you have to analyze what you are eating to this degree. if you are doing huge, multi day routes...sure. i've done many climbs that have been non-stop efforts for anywhere from 10-20 hrs straight and i don't think it matters what you eat. just pick something that you can actually eat and get down and you'll be fine.
I agree with peter croft. actually love his philosophies. but I don't think brown rice sugar, instant breakfast, and maltodextrin are fancy.
I don't know about the amino acids in instant energy boost. but the key ingredient in Cliff Shots is brown rice syrup so with that as your base you can probably add anything you see fit. With Gu it's maltodextrin so with that base you can also add anything you see fit.
I think regardless of the additional content of the premade ones you are probably paying a premium of a few hundred percent.
the reason i went for this is because i never used cliff shots or gu. Like you posted, just eat and be merry. however, at times it's inconvenient or so miserable you don't want to eat. or you just forget to eat. the gu goo lets you correct this mistake quickly. also, if it's really hot i have issues eating but found I climbed much better on more than water and dilute gatorade. the other thing is this stuff requires less water than a powerbar, etc. to digest. so if you are running low on water this is a better alternative.
as far as the effort required to make it this stuff, there is none. Warm the viscous stuff in the microwave just enough to get them liquid enough to not burn out your blender. Add whatever flavoring you choose (my wife just brought me home a vanilla malt flavoring without the protein of Carnation breakfast), and add a little warm water to thin the mixture to your liking. figure on 20 minutes the first time and once you get a system probably less than 5 minutes.
Someone asked if it is as thick/thin as gu or cliff shots? the answer is I don't know. I never used those that I can remember. However, you can thin this stuff to whatever consistency you want.
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pico23
Mar 18, 2006, 5:42 AM
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In reply to: pico23: Also, what kind of stomach issues? I have some problems too, and I find that any sort of dairy when active is bad news. Perhaps an instant breakfast substitute that is dairy-free would work in my situation?
I just have a fast digestive tract. if i get nervous it gets faster. not on climbs (thankfully) but approaches i seem to get this. Usually it goes away after the first day when time becomes less an issue.
that said, i am MILDLY lactose intolerant (or at the least lactose makes my digestive tract faster when stressed). i drink 1-2 glasses of milk a day generally with no problems but sometimes it's the breaker. the heavier the milk/cream the more so. ice cream hits me hard while 1%-2% milk doesn't. i don't drink it when active though. sometimes for breakfast on spring backpacking trips as long as I have time to let it digest.
In the scheme of things the 2 packets of Carnation I added to 30oz of rice syrup isn't really much. It's basically diluted 2x what you would use for adding it to a glass of milk. also, apparently instant breakfast is shelf stable. I just found a ziplock bag of bulk that I had used may 2005 for backpacking that was stored on a shelf and it was fine.
anyway for me this is a good deal. with not much effort.
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doaner
Mar 18, 2006, 6:06 PM
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Why don't you just buy the GU Energy Gel? www.Gusports.com. It's small, convenient and packaged safely. What's the price on this?
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pico23
Mar 18, 2006, 7:29 PM
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In reply to: Why don't you just buy the GU Energy Gel? www.Gusports.com. It's small, convenient and packaged safely. What's the price on this?
You sound like a Gu advertisement. yes, the point of making it is the 75% savings. mine is small, convenient and packaged safely as well. i like the stretch my income as far as it will go. and paying 75% markup seems a little steep for my taste.
30oz of my gu less than $10
30oz of Gu's gu about $30 in the individual packets. A little less in the 5oz package.
but fear not. I did pay $4 for the 5oz Gu flask. I might even buy another.
So thats $20 i pocket. And I probably get 90% of the Gu benefit. Seems like a good deal. Kinda like buying a used car with 20K miles with a full bumper to bumper 6/75000 warranty. Just makes sense.
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greenketch
Mar 18, 2006, 9:42 PM
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In reply to: pico23: What was the consistency of the homemade GU? Similar to the store-bought stuff, or what? I have a tendency to be picky about what I eat, although I'll eat anything when hungry. But I do like the flavor of Gu Gel Shots A LOT.
I use a homemade Gu frequently. As to the Amino acids I prefere them not to be in it. I usually have some gatorade powder or Cytomax powder to add to the water as I like that better. If your are supplementing in that way there is no need to add it to your Gu. As to consistency The Maltodextrin radically affects the thickness. If you want it thinner adjust the recipe. Or, Alcohol mixes well with the Gu. Flavor to taste with any alcohol food extract or a shot of schnapps, or, rum, etc. I use that trick when I know I will be in the cold. I can just make a special change such that it is still usable when below freezing.
8^)
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pico23
Mar 19, 2006, 4:45 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: pico23: What was the consistency of the homemade GU? Similar to the store-bought stuff, or what? I have a tendency to be picky about what I eat, although I'll eat anything when hungry. But I do like the flavor of Gu Gel Shots A LOT. I use a homemade Gu frequently. As to the Amino acids I prefere them not to be in it. I usually have some gatorade powder or Cytomax powder to add to the water as I like that better. If your are supplementing in that way there is no need to add it to your Gu. As to consistency The Maltodextrin radically affects the thickness. If you want it thinner adjust the recipe. Or, Alcohol mixes well with the Gu. Flavor to taste with any alcohol food extract or a shot of schnapps, or, rum, etc. I use that trick when I know I will be in the cold. I can just make a special change such that it is still usable when below freezing. 8^)
Nice I'd been reading about adding alcohol for colder climes.
I actually make my own own gatorade as well but I'm going to try a cytomax version. Gatorade is just sugar water and lite salt.
Cytomax uses long chain sugars like maltodextrin with a lower glycemic index.
Why is gatorade still sold? Because its cheap and most people think it's good. Gatorade indurance on the other hand is a new generation of fluid replacement designed to compete with Cytomax and taste better too.
I really don't know if you need gatorade for climbing. even in 80F heat where I melt like a ice cream cone I find water and light food works best. But for high endurance stuff like cycling or long ridge traverses it seems like cytomax is a good bet. You can't get enough gatorade in to give you energy because of the glycemic index is too high.
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tradman
Mar 20, 2006, 12:29 PM
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What are you all climbing that needs this kind of attention to nurition?
I can't decide whether you're all way, way hard climbers or you're just obssessing to much about food and not enough about fitness!
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greenketch
Mar 20, 2006, 4:17 PM
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In reply to: What are you all climbing that needs this kind of attention to nurition? I can't decide whether you're all way, way hard climbers or you're just obssessing to much about food and not enough about fitness!
Excellant point, Fitness is really the best at keeping you going. I like the drink mix in the water mostly because I prefer my water to not taste like a plastic bottle. If I'm adding something I might as well do something good for me. Personally I keep with the Gu as I have other digestive system issues that require me to maintain a certain level of intake. Here again it is more an issue of getting the most bang for the buck as I have to carry something.
Over all I totally agree with ya tradman. A good bit of training along with some food and water is by far the best approach.
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pico23
Mar 20, 2006, 7:02 PM
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In reply to: What are you all climbing that needs this kind of attention to nurition? I can't decide whether you're all way, way hard climbers or you're just obssessing to much about food and not enough about fitness!
Honestly it was my own stupidity that got me into the (performance) nutrition aspect. Most of this stuff is designed for cyclist, distance runners, and triathletes. But the ease of digestion and nutrition to size ratio is good enough apply to climbing, especially alpine type climbing.
i used to have an issue eating while rock climbing. so i just drank water and dilute gatorade. but if found i would get the shakes (elvis legs) for no reason. i also dehydrate really easily so hydration is more important than food for me which is why i wasn't too concerned about the food issue.
I bonked on a relatively easy climb in january which was the first time i condsidered all the fancy crap out there. it was just a semi technical route and perhaps my fitness wasn't the best but i was zapped. i had a muscle cramp, and shaky legs. In hindsight I might have been developing hypothermia from the hours of pouring rain, wind, and mild winter temps.
so i went to the drawing board and decided to see if I could make all this designer nutrition for less money. turns out you can, and it does work (homemade or for real) but there isn't any reason to go broke downing low glycemic sugars and some proteins.
anyway, i agree you should concentrate on fitness first, but when your on your objective consoling yourself in your fitness is meaningless if your body doesn't have what it needs to keep going. so i'm just covering all my bases. if you aren't in shape in the first place no amount of gu is going to make you complete a long climb.
this stuff works. technology is nice. do we need goretex/softshells? no. do we need recurved picks? no. do we need Gu and Cytomax? nope. but they are all little advantages to give us an edge so why not use them when required.
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pico23
Mar 20, 2006, 7:05 PM
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In reply to: What are you all climbing that needs this kind of attention to nurition? I can't decide whether you're all way, way hard climbers or you're just obssessing to much about food and not enough about fitness!
Honestly it was my own stupidity that got me into the (performance) nutrition aspect.
i used to have an issue eating while rock climbing. so i just drank water and dilute gatorade. but if found i would get the shakes (elvis legs) for no reason. i also dehydrate really easily so hydration is more important than food for me which is why i wasn't too concerned about the food issue.
I bonked on a relatively easy climb in january which was the first time i condsidered all the fancy crap out there. it was just a semi technical route and perhaps my fitness wasn't the best but i was zapped. i had a muscle cramp, and shaky legs. In hindsight I might have been developing hypothermia from the hours of pouring rain, wind, and mild winter temps.
so i went to the drawing board and decided to see if I could make all this designer nutrition for less money. turns out you can, and it does work (homemade or for real) but there isn't any reason to go broke downing low glycemic sugars and some proteins.
anyway, i agree you should concentrate on fitness first, but when your on your objective consoling yourself in your fitness is meaningless if your body doesn't have what it needs to keep going. so i'm just covering all my bases. if you aren't in shape in the first place no amount of gu is going to make you complete a long climb.
this stuff works. technology is nice. do we need goretex/softshells? no. do we need recurved picks? no. do we need Gu and Cytomax? nope. but they are all little advantages to give us an edge so why not use them when required.
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