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dxmetal
Feb 16, 2006, 5:34 PM
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Reference: http://www.trailspace.com/gear/patagonia/liquid-sky-jacket/review/6317/
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If you are a gear manufacturer on the financial bind, how would you respond ? sell out or not sell out.
NOTE: THIS REVIEW IS NOT MINE.
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My most trusted old North Face jacket has finally become threadbare -- after years of hikes in the mountains and running errands in metropolis, little rips and tears around the cuffs give it a second hand store appearance. So, after seven years, it was time to find a replacement.
I searched for a coat that could perform the dual duties of my old one:
1) It had to be light and it had to be impervious to rain, esp. when spending upwards of 12 hours climbing mountains in the Adriondacks, and it had to breathe fairly well in order to accommodate the weather changes that can occur on such all-day hikes.
2) It had to have a relatively low-profile exterior, so I could wear it to the office and go shopping around town, or even wear it on the streets of NYC, without looking like too much of a sports-wearing dork (ie, the coat must eschew the "starter coat" parka look sort of thing). I am NOT a fashionista by any stretch of the imagination, I just need an urban/mountain coat that can blend in without calling too much attention to itself. IE, I want to be able to wear the coat, not vice versa, and when you are a petite female, this can be a difficult quest.
From Altrec.com, I ordered TNF's Women's Alpine Light Parka to replace my old jacket. On the page it looked like it met my stringent criteria, and it had pit zips, too! But it was not at all what I expected. I'm not a North Face basher (yet). So to be fair to the coat, I'd say it's made well, there's no doubt about that; the material felt as good as my old worn out coat, and though I'm a petite 5'2", the fit wasn't *too* bad (except for the gargantuan length of the arms, which I expect by now -- but are all women at TNF orangutans???).
The thing was, I ordered the Black Medium, and I was disappointed to find that, instead of being a uniform black, as my old coat was, the new North Face jacket had a silver gray interior that, on my petite frame, looked positively garish. When I left the collar open, its grayness stood out and up, surrounding my head, and I looked like Queen Elizabeth, with an enormous ruff the size to rival that of Sir Walter Raleigh's. The collar was bad enough, but the Alpine Light also featured a "skirt" on the back, which gave the overall appearance a much sportier appearance than my original, which had a straight hem from back to front, yet still covered hips and butt. The straight hem gave my old coat a much more classic "on the town" appearance, whereas the skirt on the new coat seemed to say, "take me to the Giants game".
These factors put together gave me the look I dreaded -- that of a TOTAL DORK -- and I knew I'd rather be caught dead than ever wear that coat anywhere but on a mountain trail. Functional as it was, it embarrassed me. So, I repacked the jacket and sent it back to Altrec.
After I returned the Alpine Light, my first thought went to TNF's Mountain Light Parka, which seemed like it might better match the style of my old coat (I've no idea *what* style the old coat was, as there is no indication on the jacket at all).
But after reading lots of user comments about TNF and other brands, I decided that TNF wasn't the only name in town by a long shot, so I searched other brands that had been given a general thumbs up by others on this site. That's when I found the Patagonia Liquid Sky Women's Jacket. I loved the look of it -- all black with all black interior, hurrah! -- and better yet, the site states that the women's model has "feminine contouring", all the better for wanting a nicer look to the coat. The make of it was just what I wanted, too. I do not yet trust any of these new Gore-Tex knockoffs that companies have come up with, and Patagonia has their own version as well (some nebulous-sounding combination of "waterproof H2No� HB (Highly Breathable); Deluge� DWR (durable water repellent finish). So, the fact that this coat was made with good old dependable 2-ply Gore-Tex meant that this jacket was a no brainer.
But the icing on the cake came when I "froogled" the coat online, which retailed for $299.00 almost everywhere, except for a site called livetoplay.com, which had it, amazingly, for $159.99 in my color and size. (Click here to go directly to that link.) On top of that, I paid $9.95 for ground shipping, so the whole she-bang came to $169.94. Not too shabby!
I've just tried it on and it is truly a thing of beauty. It is black both inside and out, so when I leave the collar open (not zipped all the way up), I do not look like a featured player at the Renaissance Faire. The hem across the bottom is straight, and covers my hips and bottom, so looks v. classic and is more suitable for urban life, yet will still protect my bottom when I sit on wet rocks/benches/curbs/what-have-you.
And, as the gentleman who reviewed the Men's Liquid Sky Jacket pointed out, you're not a walking advertisement -- there's only one label that says "Patagonia", located on the left upper chest area, and it hardly calls attention to itself. Unlike TNF's penchant for putting "THE NORTH FACE" labels ALL over their material -- front, back, sideways top and bottom, eeesh!
On the women's model, there are two exterior pockets, located below the waist, and one interior pocket. The Optipull hood is stowable, and tucks inside the collar, which is fastened with three snaps (not velcro). I am able to pull the hood out and stuff it back in when I'm wearing it, though it will take me time to perfect the hunt for matching snaps. The arms, according to Patagonia, feature "y-contouring" for a better fit -- and this must do *something*, because although my measurements show that the Patagonia sleeves are actually *longer* than my original North Face ones, there seems to be much less material to have to shove upwards and away from my wrists. But this could change with use and extended wear, as the new jacket becomes more comfortable and soft, so we shall see.
As with my old North Face jacket, there is a waist cinch accessed from inside the coat, so a more tailored look can be appropriated (yay feminine contouring!). And how's THIS for a bonus -- the gorgeous cream-colored North Face Pumori Fleece jacket that I bought to go with the North Face Alpine Light Parka that I eventually returned, actually ZIPS AND FITS INSIDE THE PATAGONIA LIQUID SKY JACKET!!! And here I thought I was going to have to eventually purchase one of the Patagonia zip-ins that were to meant to go with this jacket (ie, Synchilla or R3). That's another savings of over $100, and betcha you didn't know you could mix-n-match brands, eh? Even the little North Face sleeve snaps snap into the sleeve snaps of the Patagonia jacket -- brilliant!
My only complaint so far is that the Patagonia jacket feels stiff and not quite as substantial as my old North Face jacket. But the old jacket's been through storms and washing machine cycles and countless DWR retreatments, so perhaps time will soften the Patagonia. Also, I just took it out of its bag today, and have yet to give it a test in wet weather, but as it is made out of Gore-Tex 2-ply, which is tried and true, I hardly think anything can go awry.
I highly recommend this coat for the urban girl on the go, who also toughs it out on the trail with the boys. Looks excellent both in the mountains and at the corner Starbucks (and the one across the street from that one ;).
SUMMARY/BOTTOM LINE
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PROS: If you like uniformity when you wear black, this coat features black exterior with black interior, so a low-profile silhouette is assured. A straight hem along the bottom from front to back affords a more classic look than a front with a longer curved skirt in the back. 2-ply Gore-Tex means you will get dependable waterproof material with high breathability; so far it's not been proven that anyone else's formula can compete with Gore-Tex's original. (Only Gore-Tex can top itself, apparently, and it has done so with XCR, which is just as waterproof as the original formula, but offers more breathability.) This jacket is very light and so it is well suited to rainy days in spring, summer and fall, and even milder winter days. With the fleece in it, I suspect I will be comfortable from 25F and higher.
CONS: No pit zips, which was a feature I would have liked in a lighter coat, esp. for summer hiking, but ah well. The two exterior pockets have fleece lining inside, which is nice, but there is no fleece lining on the collar (unlike TNF's models), so you just feel stiff nylon against your chin/neck. Frankly I'd rather have the fleece on my chin than inside my pockets, but whatever. Also, the coat is brand new and I can't tell if it is just stiff from newness or made out of a flimsier nylon than I am accustomed to from TNF -- time will tell on that one. And for $159.99, I don't think I really care :).
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Very happy with my new Patagonia Liquid Sky Women's Black Medium Jacket,
Susan
PS: Once I have subjected this coat to weather, I will write again, in order to confirm the breathability and waterproofness of the jacket.
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brent_e
Feb 16, 2006, 6:12 PM
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she seems really concerned about how stylie it is. Her "gorgeous cream-colored North Face Pumori Fleece" and all the comments about how it's cut. Just bloody wear it if it works!
"Looks excellent both in the mountains and at the corner Starbucks"
please stay at starbucks.
Brent
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j_ung
Feb 16, 2006, 6:32 PM
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I for one think that's a damn-fine review, though I bet folks would also like to hear a first-hand follow-up on how it does in a downpour.
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dingus
Feb 16, 2006, 6:38 PM
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dxmetal, I have no useful comments on your buying angst other than to say I know plenty of non-petite men who anguish over style choices as well.
I'm a 2nd's and closeout kind of guy and simply cannot relate to this conundrum.
But to the 'ridiculous' arm length of alpine performance jackets... try this experiement:
Put your jacket on and cinch it up as if you are 'climbing in weather.' Put a pack on too, this may be an alpine climb.
Now reach both hands over your head as if grasping for holds at your limit.
Does the jacket ride up and expose your back? Do the sleeves retreat and expose your wrists?
If either happens, that so-called alpine jacket is a street coat masquarading as a climber's shell. Even Ratagonia makes street garmets, and laws knows TNF makes tons of them.
But long tails and long sleeves have very real applications in 'full conditions.' That probably accounts for the sleeve length of what sounds like an excellent shell?
DMT
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craftedpacket
Feb 16, 2006, 6:50 PM
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Well thought out review with attention to detail. Nice job.
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herbaltee
Feb 16, 2006, 7:00 PM
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I was so excited about the possibility of reading whether the North Face was selling out by the first line. In reply to: If you are a gear manufacturer on the financial bind, how would you respond ? sell out or not sell out
Because much can be said about the North Face and Patagonia since their owners are good friends and both are competing in a highly specialized clothing niche. Then with the added pressures of cheaper manufacturing supplied by asia...But I guess that is for another time...
I'm glad that you like the jacket you got and too bad it didn't have pit vents.
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dxmetal
Feb 16, 2006, 7:17 PM
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WAIT.. WHY THE HELL DO YOU GUYS THINK IT WAS MY JACKET ?? I was searching for a review of Patagonia LiquidSky jacket because it is on sale for $ 29.99 and i stumbled upon the review.
Yes it was a darn good review very consice and detailed. However I am more concern about the lifecycle of the entire outdoor industry and the direction of the industry's R&D.
When a giant conglomerate acquired an independent gear maker/company, there is a pressure for the smaller guys to perform and make more sales. This usually means catering both their R&D and products to meet the mass market demands. The North face was purchased by VF, Mountain Hardwear by Columbia, Arcteryx by Adidas ...etc.
And once, the mass market accepts a brand, there will be no turning back. Why would The North Face pour millions of dollars into R&D if people are flocking to the store to buy their fleece jackets for their college bound sons and daughters? Have you seen any new innovation in The North Face 4 season/expedition tents in the last 5 years?
I am sure you guys all aware that i am closout, clearance, factory outlet, seconds, last seasons cheapo kinda consumer, but as the above hapless effects begin to shore, eventually even I would be forced to buy "slim, purddy jackets" from the outlet store, in the expense of a real functional and practical piece that would perform well in the backcountry.
And yes, the effect has trigged down even to Mountain Hardwear. Just check out their fall 06 line. I had a seam of a brand new patagonia down jacket blew out on me on the second time I wore the jacket :evil:
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granite_grrl
Feb 16, 2006, 7:21 PM
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In reply to: she seems really concerned about how stylie it is. Her "gorgeous cream-colored North Face Pumori Fleece" and all the comments about how it's cut. Just bloody wear it if it works! "Looks excellent both in the mountains and at the corner Starbucks" please stay at starbucks. Brent
I'll call you a filthy liar if you tell me that you don't care what a $150 piece of clothes looks like on you.
What's wrong with wanting a dual functioning item of clothing? One reason I bought my capaline tops originally was because they worked well as a wicking layer riding my bike to school, and they did stick out as sports apperal when I wore them to class after.
One reason I don't wear my fleece skull cap anytime except out climbing (and biking, fits well under a helmet) is because its dorky!! (I've also been told I look a little like a feminan boy when I wear it :? ).
As to the OP wondering why the sleves are always so long on clothes...you're buying a size medium. I often buy mediums (sometimes large). I'm 5'8" with a positive ape index, you're 5'2" you said? I love it when I find clothes with nice long arms.
But all in all good review, I actually read the whole thing, which must say something because I usually don't have that sort of attention span for longer posts.
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dxmetal
Feb 16, 2006, 7:48 PM
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This is North face 2006
http://mirror.altrec.com/...otos/TNF/20034_d.jpg
I , unfortunately am stucked with the ownership of one TNF hydration pack that leaks like a starbucks baby (purchased winter clerance from STP, now i know why its so cheap on clearance). I also wonder why they decided to go with elastic cuffs on their "technical line" $ 299 softshell jacket, that is simply a very folly decision.
oh, and what about bringing a big wall technology from A5 and marketing it as shirts, t shirts ... fashion thing, Classic.
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brent_e
Feb 16, 2006, 9:27 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: she seems really concerned about how stylie it is. Her "gorgeous cream-colored North Face Pumori Fleece" and all the comments about how it's cut. Just bloody wear it if it works! "Looks excellent both in the mountains and at the corner Starbucks" please stay at starbucks. Brent I'll call you a filthy liar if you tell me that you don't care what a $150 piece of clothes looks like on you. What's wrong with wanting a dual functioning item of clothing? One reason I bought my capaline tops originally was because they worked well as a wicking layer riding my bike to school, and they did stick out as sports apperal when I wore them to class after. snip
looks like we might have a rough weekend! :lol:
I care to the extent that i don't stand out, which is why I buy black (most everything) or some other drab colour. So, yes, it matter, but if the inside was showing silver (likely from either the 3rd ply of the gore membrane/ an uncoated 2 ply coat/ some weird taffeta, i wouldn't care!
nothing wrong with dual functioning/looking good. But why not get something that works when you need it to, and then tailor the rest of your needs. If you're climbing, buy something that works. I feel fairly strongly about this.
In reply to: One reason I don't wear my fleece skull cap anytime except out climbing (and biking, fits well under a helmet) is because its dorky!!
it does look dorky!
:lol:
:D
Brent
also dorky:
http://i.pbase.com/...6620972.DSCN0895.jpg
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granite_grrl
Feb 17, 2006, 12:12 AM
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At least you're wearing a helmet
Dork!!! :D
Yeah, if the clothes don't perform well, then screw it. But with as many options for clothes there are right now (I get overwhelmed every time I take a peak at jackets) there's no real reason not to be able to find something that fits well, performs well and still looks good (esp for what a lot of these clothes cost!).
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nola_angie
Feb 17, 2006, 12:48 AM
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In reply to: she seems really concerned about how stylie it is. Her "gorgeous cream-colored North Face Pumori Fleece" and all the comments about how it's cut. Just bloody wear it if it works! "Looks excellent both in the mountains and at the corner Starbucks" please stay at starbucks. Brent
Man, spoken like a true guy!
Lemmie tell ya, when your tiny, (i'm also 5'2") you gotta watch it. For some reason, warm jackets make us little girls look really special. And I'm talking 'short bus, and my pity-ing aunt got this for me'
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clausti
Feb 17, 2006, 1:52 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: she seems really concerned about how stylie it is. Her "gorgeous cream-colored North Face Pumori Fleece" and all the comments about how it's cut. Just bloody wear it if it works! "Looks excellent both in the mountains and at the corner Starbucks" please stay at starbucks. Brent Man, spoken like a true guy! Lemmie tell ya, when your tiny, (i'm also 5'2") you gotta watch it. For some reason, warm jackets make us little girls look really special. And I'm talking 'short bus, and my pity-ing aunt got this for me'
you forgot "hey boy! get outta my way!".
if you are short and also have short hair, winter jackets can be hellaciosly masculinizing.
i own two jackets/coats that dont make me look like a 14 year old male ski bum. one is a leather motorcycle jacket, made by american eagle, and one is a calf length black wool city coat made my liz claborne. i also own a softshell, a snowboard style hardshell, a summerweight shell, a down jacket, a heavy fleece, aaaand a down vest. those are things i'm counting as "outerwear."
guess which ones i wear around campus? [even on a campus where a softshell is apparently this spring's item to have.]
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scuclimber
Feb 17, 2006, 4:50 AM
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I thought that was a very well-written review that would probably be at least somewhat valuable to your standard outdoorsy climber type, as well as your urban warrior who likes to look the part. She has her standards, I have mine, and they overlap in areas. If I was looking at that jacket, I would find that review valuable. And the whole yuppie urban poseur thing has been done to death. Please don't turn this into another one of those. :roll:
Colin
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climbsomething
Feb 17, 2006, 5:56 AM
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I'm petite and I don't have short hair, but I do wear it in a bun most of the time. I don't think I look like a retarded little boy with a nice jacket.
Well, maybe I do. I just don't care ;)
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brent_e
Feb 17, 2006, 6:24 AM
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In reply to: In reply to: she seems really concerned about how stylie it is. Her "gorgeous cream-colored North Face Pumori Fleece" and all the comments about how it's cut. Just bloody wear it if it works! "Looks excellent both in the mountains and at the corner Starbucks" please stay at starbucks. Brent Man, spoken like a true guy! Lemmie tell ya, when your tiny, (i'm also 5'2") you gotta watch it. For some reason, warm jackets make us little girls look really special. And I'm talking 'short bus, and my pity-ing aunt got this for me'
Angie,
ouch!!! I guess it is stereotypical, and to my defense, i'm not a complete jackass, which I think you know!!! :D
short bus!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
that's a good one, indeed!
Clausti,
I'm sure you still look gorgeous in a ski jacket, etc. Your LC coat...a P coat? (that how you say that??) Anyway, on another note, congratulations on having so many jackets.
and i agree about softshells becoming popular. i see more and more wankers sporting them - i think that's when a company pulls "a north face," which is like soccer moms wearing A5 stuff (I think A5 being good was before my time).
for me, it's a flanel/plaid/lumber-jack button up. can't beat it, really. stylie, elegant, not too revealing. oh...and warm. cept when it rains, or snows, or when there's wind.
Brent
*shiver*
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brent_e
Feb 17, 2006, 6:28 AM
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In reply to: I'm petite and I don't have short hair, but I do wear it in a bun most of the time. I don't think I look like a retarded little boy with a nice jacket. Well, maybe I do. I just don't care ;)
LOL
you're up credibility!!!! :D
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dingus
Feb 17, 2006, 7:33 AM
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Speaking of style, me and my buddy Rich were in Philly on business. After work we were looking for something to do. Some asshole told us that New Hope, north of the city, was a kickin place,, lots of bars, restaurants, tourist town. I'd driven through there a time or two so I knew where it was.
You Philly assholes are already laughing I can tell. Well, let me give you a guffaw then.
Rich is from Ventura. He's short, blonde, and he's an avid surfer. He talks the talk too. He dresses well, his hair is always perfect, he has a gorgeous latina wife and two beautiful daughters. Dude's basically got it made...
Me? I'm a big dumbass from Tennessee who dresses that way.
So we head on up to New Hope, Rich all prepped out, me wearing jeans, I swear to gog a checkered lumberjack shirt and a bright blue pile vest, and some boots.
I'm laughing at myself now, but goddamnit, that's what I was wearing. Unless I'm in front of a client (where looking like a doof costs you dough) I am truly careless about my appearence, as any one who knows me can attest.
We eat dinner in some shitty restaurant. I'd already detected a very high male to female ratio, so the window seats weren't doing us much good.
After dinner we wander down the crowded streets, still largely devoid of pretty girls and head in to a randomly picked bar. Order beers.
So Rich takes a sip, remember, Rich is short, like 5' 6" short, fit, trim, blonde, good looking, I'm a 6 foot tall doofus... anyway, Rich turns to me and says,
"Dingus, this bar is full of fags." Matter of fact, like, "Dingus, its cloudy tonight."
I glance around in an offhand manner, and well, Rich pretty much nailed it... we were in a gay bar. Me in my limber jack shirt and bright blue vest, Rich in his prep get up, hair perfect.
So we laugh it up pretty good. Down our drinks and head back outside. Suddenly the suspicious lack of females on the street became painfully obvious... New Hope is like Gay Central for the Philly area!
Swear to god, I had no idea! We were fucking SET UP! It's happened to me before, Key West for one, a bar in San Fran for another. I'm just a dumb ass country boy and slow on the uptake. So when that cute chick on the other side of the bar in Key West winked at me and raised her glass, it took me 30 minutes of casual conversation to realize she was a he.
Took us nearly two hours in New Hope.
Big dumb ass Dingus in a checkered lumber jack shirt and a (I promise!) bright blue pile vest, Rich in his preppy duds, hair all swept back, like he was looking out to Santa Catalina in the face of an onshore breeze.
Needless to say, the boys back in Bensalem had a good old laugh at our expense the next day.
BASTARDS!
DMT
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dingus
Feb 17, 2006, 7:39 AM
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Oh shit! It said BUYING behavior! My bad...
DMT
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herbaltee
Feb 17, 2006, 12:44 PM
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In reply to: WAIT.. WHY THE HELL DO YOU GUYS THINK IT WAS MY JACKET ?? I was searching for a review of Patagonia LiquidSky jacket because it is on sale for $ 29.99 and i stumbled upon the review. Yes it was a darn good review very consice and detailed. However I am more concern about the lifecycle of the entire outdoor industry and the direction of the industry's R&D.
Ooops sorry, didn't connect that the link and the review wasn't you writting. But now looking at it I can see what you mean. Did you read the article a few Outside ago with Yvon Chouinard? It was a good look into companies that want to grow and dominate the market and those willing to stay true to principle. While I love Patagonia and really dislike the North Face I can see where they both come from. Its just a means to stay afloat in the corporate world.
Its sad to see the likes of Prana being bought by Liz Clayborne but hopefully they will decide to keep their quality of product up to cuff or people will hopefully move away.
In the future I see more companies like BeyondFleece. Its really the next logical step for Patagonia I believe. In making high quality custom gear they will always have a market for those who need it however it will hurt the average consumer that is a climber since their gear will cost more.
I dunno maybe i'm rambling, what do you think?
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clausti
Feb 17, 2006, 1:37 PM
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In reply to: Clausti, I'm sure you still look gorgeous in a ski jacket, etc. Your LC coat...a P coat? (that how you say that??) Anyway, on another note, congratulations on having so many jackets.
meh, me in a ski jacket? seriously, last time i went snowboarding I got called "he" or "boy" 4 times in 6 hours. we are ignoring the times i got called "dude" or "man" cause sometimes "hey man" means "give me your attention, person."
Anyway, on another note, i use every one of them.
my city coat is not a pea coat.... i guess it is style like a trench coat but is wool felt? its long, like, to the botton of my calves, and has a single row of buttons all the way down and no tie. pea coats are usually shorter, double breasted, and have a tie.
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brent_e
Feb 17, 2006, 2:12 PM
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In reply to: Oh s---! It said BUYING behavior! My bad... DMT
doesn't matter. great story.
Oh, if you ever go to toronto, i have a great place for you. Lot's of bars, lots of pretty girls.........
Brent
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brent_e
Feb 17, 2006, 2:13 PM
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In reply to: snip my city coat is not a pea coat.... i guess it is style like a trench coat but is wool felt? its long, like, to the botton of my calves, and has a single row of buttons all the way down and no tie. pea coats are usually shorter, double breasted, and have a tie.
thanks for the clarity. wasn't sure what constituted a "pea coat"
Brent
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fishbelly
Feb 17, 2006, 2:16 PM
Post #24 of 26
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Registered: Oct 31, 2004
Posts: 273
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Nice review.
Some day she will be married with kids or atleast grow up and not be obsessed with trivial things like style & dorkyness .
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dxmetal
Feb 17, 2006, 2:20 PM
Post #25 of 26
(2830 views)
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Registered: Nov 24, 2003
Posts: 461
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Here is the article suggested by herbaltee, it was an excellent piece, a must read !!
http://outside.away.com/...von-chouinard-1.html
If you want to learn more, the name of the books is "let my people go surfing" by yvon chouinard.
It is really hard to strike a balance in the corporate world. The pressure from stakeholders and the pressure of doing the right thing. A company must know their core value and and focus on their core customers. There is no successful method of trying to serve and satisfy everybody. Its like balancing a weighted scale, one side will always be heavier than the other. If you want to serve the mass consumers, your more technical product will stagnant and you might lose your core value and core consumers. The North Face today will slap its logo onto just about anything to make a buck.
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