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dynosore
Mar 14, 2006, 9:37 PM
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Those times don't make sense. No way a Cayman is faster around a track that a GT3 911 or 911 Turbo. The Impreza WRX is a modified family sedan, did you really think it would be faster than a Vette? WRX's are good performers for the price, especially the STi, but they are still just a turbo sedan at the end of the day. I just don't get the mystique.
edited to say: A vette will never be "better" than a 911. For the price, yeah. Faster in experienced hands? Perhaps, on wide open tracks. The 911 is so driveable, so luxurious, if you've driven both their is no comparision. When they time the new 911 Turbo, watch the vette move down the list. 473HP, 502Ft/lbs AWD.
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overlord
Mar 14, 2006, 9:56 PM
Post #27 of 39
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In reply to: Those times don't make sense. No way a Cayman is faster around a track that a GT3 911 or 911 Turbo. The Impreza WRX is a modified family sedan, did you really think it would be faster than a Vette? WRX's are good performers for the price, especially the STi, but they are still just a turbo sedan at the end of the day. I just don't get the mystique.
actually it does make sense. a porshe boxer (cayman is the coupe version of boxer) "suprisingly" has a better best time on the "nordshleife" on nuerburgring than a 911 turbo. im not sure about the gt3 though. it seems that the 911 "prefers" fast, open corners and the lighter versions are better on more closed tracks.
and i was really suprised by the epoor performance of the WRX. its not a modified family sedan, its actually a WRC car for the road, like mitsubishi evos. its 4th on motorvision track, i believe, with a 0.01 (over with a total time of 19.89s if im not mistaken) worse time than bmw M3 SLR (the lighter, stronger version), also beaten by lotus elise and wiesmann. it would be REALLY interesting to see how z06 performs on that track.
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euroford
Mar 14, 2006, 10:45 PM
Post #28 of 39
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In reply to: In reply to: pheh. Euro-snob. :lol: Not really. There are some good american cars, and some are very fast, but generally they don't handle very well - I've seen some models which still use leaf spring suspension for goodness sake! On the other hand, the euro cars tend to be complete packages and leave little room for modification without major cost. Pros and cons on both sides I guess.
there is no snobbery in that statement, its basiclly true. the f-body above has a solid rear axle, they don't handle for shit. but what you do have is something that can run 10sec. 1/4 miles for about $30,000. its a pony car, designed for straightline acceleration.
not that you can't get american iron to handle, allot of guys tear up roadcourses with f-bods stangs and vipers. you just have to upgrade for that purpose. and conversly, i'm sure somebody out there somewhere built a 10sec. M3, but we are talking $$$ for that kind of suspension overhaul.
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unabonger
Mar 14, 2006, 11:25 PM
Post #29 of 39
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Speaking of eurofords, The Town of Vail, Colorado cops drove Saabs for many years. Not sure if its still true.
It's rare that any other than Ford or GM get the LEO contracts, its just too big a political target.
I say screw the hairy performance cop car. Give them a cheap american sedan and a flock of helicopters. The vette won't outrun the chopper and the cops don't get used to being Mad Max.
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euroford
Mar 15, 2006, 12:45 AM
Post #30 of 39
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In reply to: Speaking of eurofords, The Town of Vail, Colorado cops drove Saabs for many years. Not sure if its still true.
now if they were volvo's they really would be eurofords. i couldn't believe it when we were at the autoshow this year my wife was really diggin the new ford 500 (can you imagine my relief at my wife liking an under 25k ford? thank god!!), so i asked the guy if it came with an option for the modular 4.6 v8. he said "nope, its a volvo". :shock:
LOL, fords top of the line sedan, is a volvo. we live in a very strange world.
i'm going to try and talk her into a used Marauder. those things are BAF. same engine as the cobra, without the supercharger, but get this, they still get the forged internals! how cool is that!
okay, went off on a bit of a tangent there.....
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unabonger
Mar 15, 2006, 1:10 AM
Post #32 of 39
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In reply to: i'm going to try and talk her into a used Marauder. those things are BAF. same engine as the cobra, without the supercharger, but get this, they still get the forged internals! how cool is that! okay, went off on a bit of a tangent there.....
What do you think of these? I'd kill to find an 02/03 to meet my under 20k budget? Possible?
http://www.theautochannel.com/...1/16/152896.1-lg.jpg
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brent_e
Mar 15, 2006, 3:36 AM
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thank god they added some roll bars to that thing. I wonder what made them choose that thing over a vette, though??? Anyone???
Brent
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euroford
Mar 15, 2006, 3:42 AM
Post #34 of 39
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cheaper, easier to work on, same engine, better suspension for straightline performance, cooler looking, more aftermarket support. its hard too beat the
f-body for the bases of a performance build.
bmws are cool, my dad had a 2k M5 with some mods, but i don't see myself every owning one. i know it will be hard to get the euro fans to agree with me on this one, but Ford makes some of the absolute best engines out there, and the aftermarket support is fantastic.
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dynosore
Mar 15, 2006, 1:28 PM
Post #36 of 39
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The WRX is based on the Impreza, it's not a ground up designed rally car by any means. It's a good car for the $$, but people blow their performance way out of proportion.
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robbovius
Mar 15, 2006, 2:29 PM
Post #37 of 39
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Registered: Nov 20, 2002
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In reply to: In reply to: In reply to: pheh. Euro-snob. :lol: Not really. There are some good american cars, and some are very fast, but generally they don't handle very well - I've seen some models which still use leaf spring suspension for goodness sake! On the other hand, the euro cars tend to be complete packages and leave little room for modification without major cost. Pros and cons on both sides I guess. there is no snobbery in that statement, its basiclly true. the f-body above has a solid rear axle, they don't handle for s---.
HA! sorry dude, more eurosnobbery, and you betray your ignorance of the type, by that statement.
I competed in SCCA Solo2 autocrossing for several years in F-stock, in a fairly unmodified 1987 Z28, with only the factory supension upgrade (in the same era firebird it was the WS6 option) and some Bilstiens. I've also done track schools in a porsche 944 (which, even though it was considered a benchmark for handling throughout the 1980s, oohhh, I can hear the Anti-front-engine-porsche snobs slavering now!) and can directly compare the two. Even though it was heavier (and felt it) the camaro was every bit as controllable and predictable as the porsche. I had just as much fun with either car.
There's nothing wrong with solid axles, as long as they're controlled correctly. Talk to any SCCA Trans-Am racer. or SCCA AMGT racer, or SCCA solo2 F-stock, or E-mod. ;-)
Y'know, alot of people forget that Ferrari held on to solid rear axles far longer than every thought was reasonable. all of the most famous 1960s GT Ferraris, including the 250 GTO had solid rear axles located with dual quarter-elliptical leaf springs. They were trucks dude, trucks. ;-)
Or Kart racer, Which I also was for a few years. I don't claim to be a major driver, but I got a couple trophies...
In reply to: but what you do have is something that can run 10sec. 1/4 miles for about $30,000. its a pony car, designed for straightline acceleration. not that you can't get american iron to handle, allot of guys tear up roadcourses with f-bods stangs and vipers. you just have to upgrade for that purpose.
Dude, where are you coming up with this stuff? there isn't ANY factory produced pony car - or factory-produced car PERIOD - GM, Ford or whatever, that will turn 10s in the 1/4. stock, even the best are high 14s/low 13s, with a driver practiced at the dragstrip. Further, the Camaro has been out of production for two years, so the point is moot.
To get an F-body, of any era, into the 10s, takes heavy $$ infusions. ;-)
BTW, the chryco Viper has (and always has had) IRS, and is a two seater, that competes with the Corvette, and other high end two-seat sporters, not the pony car class, at all.
THe attitude that American cars handle poorly generally, as a rule, in comparison with european cars, is a stereotypification born in the 1950s and 1960s, when it actually was true. in the modern era, the differences are far less. Solid axles, or not. ;-)
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euroford
Mar 15, 2006, 3:24 PM
Post #38 of 39
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In reply to: Dude, where are you coming up with this stuff? there isn't ANY factory produced pony car - or factory-produced car PERIOD - GM, Ford or whatever, that will turn 10s in the 1/4. stock, even the best are high 14s/low 13s, with a driver practiced at the dragstrip. Further, the Camaro has been out of production for two years, so the point is moot. To get an F-body, of any era, into the 10s, takes heavy $$ infusions. ;-)
jesus man, are you so rearin for a fight that your happy to just jump to any conclusion you can? okay great you raced SCCA, so did i for 5 years. i'm sure you did great in your t/a, but in my neck of the woods not many could hang with the euros. i remeber one dude that absolutly KILLED it in a C5 vette though. it was a pleasure to watch that guy drive.
no not factory stock of course. but its been proven that minimal mods the last generation f-bods, the 03, 04 cobras and the new gt stang can get into the 10's. basicly we are talking a minor weight reduction (rear seat delete), welds w/ slicks/skinnys, lower gears in the rear end, headers/intake, a bit of spray or a pulley swap in the cobra. this was especially prevalent with the f-bods that came all corked up from the factory. some headers made a sick diffrence on those things. you could easily, as i said, get the car and mods to put you into the 10's for 30k or less. back when i lived in dallas (huge! racing culture down there) this was so normal as to be unexciting.
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robbovius
Mar 15, 2006, 3:49 PM
Post #39 of 39
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Registered: Nov 20, 2002
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In reply to: jesus man, are you so rearin for a fight that your happy to just jump to any conclusion you can? .
naah, dude, wasn't aware of your backstory, no worries. Had I but known! And I mean really, reading back thru.. arguing about cars on the internet? gaaah! "Dork factor 9 Mr sulu!"
It was the "F-bodys don't handle for Shit" comment ;-)
That I couldn''t agree with, see, my 1987 Plymouth voyager, with the 5-year old $15 autozone shocks, and boneyard tires, now, THAT, that don't handle for shit.
whereas, my old Z28...
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/193/gta17pp.jpg
well, it did pretty okay, as long as I drove it well ;-)
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