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karate_kid
Mar 15, 2006, 4:30 AM
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I've been getting into trad climbing recently and am saving up to develop a rack. When a friend found out she gave me her ex husbands old rack. It has tons of old gear, hexes, stoppers, and other passive pro. A few of the stoppers have not been placed but for the most part all the gear is scratched from placement and I am not sure if I can trust it. Does anyone know if it safe to trust old gear that I don't know the falls it has taken? Plus the fact that its wicked old. Is it worth it to just hang it on my wall as antique and antsy up the money for new gear or can I use the old stuff?
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tattooed_climber
Mar 15, 2006, 4:58 AM
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passive pro is typically trustworthy....repalce the cord on them though....scratches are nothing to worry about....thats from use....nothing unnormal about that
always best to try and find out the gears history though
i have lots of old hexs/nuts that i've bought and been give...i love using them too, no often though cus i've been doing lots of aid and need all the room on the rack i can get (can be bulky)....but i have favorites i take on alpine and multipitch trad
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tagaustatoppen
Mar 15, 2006, 6:54 AM
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examine it closely then climb on it! you could take it to the crag and give it the old bounce test and see if it holds your body weight. i wouldn't worry to much if it looks OK and has a good history.
gear has a tendency to scratch on the rock, the metal, and what ever other things it comes in contact with which build its character. kind of personalizes your gear. to personalize it a bit more just use tape or (preferred) nail Polish so you can truly tell it belongs to you.
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porcelainsunset
Mar 15, 2006, 9:14 AM
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On your nuts the only thing that I would be worried about is the cables. What you need to look for are excessive signs of wear that would jeopardize the integrity of the piece of gear. Things to look for are pretty obvious, no real special training needed to tell if a cable looks worn out or abused. Extreme kinks, large gouges, frays, etc. Age is not of concern for the most part, just as long it still looks to be in decent shape, but do examine every piece of gear closely. There is little one can do, if anything, that would weaken a cable to the point of failure that can not be detected with the naked eye. However, slings on the other hand, can be rendered useless without showing any sigh of where, if they where exposed to chemicals, gone though excessive where, developed hard or soft spots, or any number of things that require some experience to detect. So, I would recommend cutting off any slings that might be slung on your hexes or tri-cams or something, and replace those. If you trust the source, and can find out the history of the gear, I would leave the slings on the tri-cams, but I would still re-sling the hexes, as that can be much easier. IMHO.
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greenketch
Mar 15, 2006, 4:00 PM
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For the most part I would trust passive pro. If you know what it is and how to place it you should also be able to see if something is not right." I would definatly replace any of the soft goods. Slings and cordage is pretty cheap. Wired nuts, take a real close look at the wires to see if they have been kinked or bent. Wired hexes tend to suffer damage where the wire exits the hex due to bending. Of course the answer is the oft quoted "if you don't trust it, don't use it."
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the_mitt
Mar 15, 2006, 5:16 PM
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(This post was edited by the_mitt on Nov 19, 2006, 6:32 PM)
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reg
Mar 15, 2006, 5:41 PM
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In reply to: Plus the fact that its wicked old.
oh boy that's scary! i mean how old could this pro be? 1970 something? god i was gettin out of the air force round then (or was it called the army air corp) - oh man that's way back!! :shock:
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stagg54
Mar 15, 2006, 5:58 PM
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I agree with everyone else, but I wouldn't trust the hexes if they have weight-saving holes drilled into them, because that probably means they are made out of steel instead of aluminum which means they could have stress factures and other issues. Its ok if their hollow because most of the new aluminum ones are hollow, what I'm talking about are obviously drilled holes, put there just to reduce weight.
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glyrocks
Mar 15, 2006, 6:38 PM
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In reply to: You should not trust any of it. Its all unsafe. Now send me a PM so I may give you my address, that way I can safely dispose of it all for you :) Mitt
Can we get an auto-reply for this joke? Then no one has to worry about who's going to make it, how long we have to wait for it, etc. Because really, it's just too dog-gone funny to let even a single thread go by without it. It never even gets old! We could even include smartass replies to this age-old 'joke.'
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the_mitt
Mar 15, 2006, 6:54 PM
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(This post was edited by the_mitt on Nov 19, 2006, 6:32 PM)
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salamanizer
Mar 15, 2006, 6:56 PM
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I'll trade you for new stuff off the shelf if its really old.....I like to collect.
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gunkiemike
Mar 16, 2006, 9:55 PM
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In reply to: I agree with everyone else, but I wouldn't trust the hexes if they have weight-saving holes drilled into them, because that probably means they are made out of steel instead of aluminum which means they could have stress factures and other issues. Its ok if their hollow because most of the new aluminum ones are hollow, what I'm talking about are obviously drilled holes, put there just to reduce weight.
I'm calling BS on this. Chouinard hexes came loaded with lightening holes in the mid 70's. And they were aluminum. I am not aware of any STEEL hexes; can you substantiate your comments with a reference?
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eastvillage
Mar 16, 2006, 10:41 PM
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Chouinard Equip/BD Hexes have always been made out aluminum.
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pastprime
Mar 16, 2006, 11:03 PM
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Off the topic of stress fractures in steel nuts; but maybe of interest: Way, way, back, before Chouinard Equip. started drilling their hexes, you could get from them, if you knew to ask for it, a template showing what size holes to drill where in their larger hexes. I weighed mine before drilling, drilled away, and weighed again, and saved about 6-7 ounces in total.
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choopacabra
Mar 16, 2006, 11:06 PM
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High Karate Kid
Welcome to trad, you'll love it. Opens up climbing to new places, which is what it's all about.
I bought a lot of my gear second hand and trust it. Some of the software needed to be replaced, which I used 6mm with a double or triple fishermans. Or you can have it done professionaly.
If you were lucky enough to inherit some tri-cams and they need repair check out:
http://www.mtntools.com/cat/rclimb/cams/mt_camresling.htm
although, there may be other places.
Check out craigslist in your area. good place to find gear some times, esp passive (the first trad gear i got was 3 old school friends, bd cams .75, 1, 2, 3, tcus .00 - 3, 3, two full sets of stoppers, dozens of biners, .5, 1, 1.5 tricams, $200)
nice of your friend, too bad for her ex
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sixleggedinsect
Mar 21, 2006, 11:39 PM
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In reply to: I bought a lot of my gear second hand and trust it. Some of the software needed to be replaced, which I used 6mm with a double or triple fishermans.
which knot you choose should be based on the type of cord you sling with.
is 6mm generally considered acceptable? seems like most folks advocate either 7mm nylon, or one of the thin tech cords (which you dont specify), for reslinging pro or making cordalettes.
on paper, 6mm looks ok. maybe. a couple rated strengths on 6mm nylon i looked up would give a sling rating of 12-19 kN, give or take. but how much strength do you lose bending it over a corner of a hex/old-school nut? how much does it lose with age? why isnt 6mm the common cordalette reccomendation? one would want pro slingage to be as strong, or stronger, than cordalette slingage, i would think.
the old slung hexes used to be done with 8 and 9mm cord, in my limited experience. they were then reslung with spacers and tech cord. but i dont handle that stuff much so perhaps 6mm is accepted.
but i'd like to know.
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choopacabra
Mar 22, 2006, 4:32 PM
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Six-legs,
Thanks for your reply. I am no expert on reslinging gear and should have prefaced my post with that.
The pieces I did resling were a tcu .00, 6.35 kN, and old school friends 1, 1.5, 2, can’t find ratings of this gear, but the new forged friends seem to be rated at 11-13 kN. I also looked up 6mm strength ratings, but seem to have found it within the 8kN range, which would be adequate for the tcu, but would not cover the friends. It appears that the 7mm falls more in the 13kN range.
I was unaware that 7mm is the standard recommendation, and am not sure of the loss of strength due to age or bends. I'll most likely change out the cord on the friends, although I rarely use them now.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention and others who would have been misguided. Probably the best advice is when in doubt, have it done professionally or seek advice from those with professional knowledge.
Sorry for any misdirection
Choop
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pastprime
Mar 22, 2006, 5:38 PM
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Choop and 6legged; I come from the era when slinging your own hexes and stoppers was the way it was, and 7mm was considered the minimum for anything you really expected to have to hold a huge fall; 8mm was where bomber really began. Mammut gives 7.5 kn as the breaking strength of 6mm. When you factor in a 1/3 loss for knots and the bend around the nut, which was where breaking commonly occurred in the tests, if I remember correctly; that doesn't give much margin for aging, sharp edges, knot slippage, or other things you might not even think of. I don't remember all the thinking and tests that went into it, but anything smaller than 7mm was only used if the piece wouldn't take larger cord.
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