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pinto
Aug 19, 2002, 5:45 AM
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Registered: Apr 25, 2002
Posts: 22
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Gotta love the russian Ti screws... err.. Wait, nevermind, those are deadly little bastards.
Anyway, I learned how to lead on the standard BD style screws (eventually scoring a couple expresses). I always thought that BD screws were the best until I found a Grivel-360 laying in a snowfield up in Orient Bay last winter (if you lost a Grivel in OB last winter email me which climb, when and how the screw was marked and I'll send it to you).
After placing this screw a couple times, I found that the 360 started waaay easier than the BD's in hard, brittle Ontario ice. I don't know why that was exactly (the BD's and the grivel were equivalently sharp), but it seemed like I could push a little better and spin the screw more consistently due to the squarish head shape. Maybe I'm smoking crack here.
Anyway, once started both types of screws worked pretty much the same. The vaunted ability of the 360's swivel arm to dodge obstacles didn't seem to matter that much, really--the time it took to move the arm around ice bulges and minimushrooms and such was about the same as if you just chopped them off and placed a BD. [shrug]
Pretty much getting screws started is the big pain in the arse, after that they should all go in easy, I guess.
So, I was wondering what everyone else thinks about good screws (snicker, snicker). Anyone else dig the grivel's or am I crazy?
(Oh yeah, BD's rack way better. The 360's don't nest together very well, making it difficult to throw them on an ice-clipper or what-have-you. If that could be fixed, they'd rock!)
(Sorry to disregard the gazillions of other screws out there, but those are the only two in ever REALLY used.)
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pbjosh
Aug 19, 2002, 6:02 AM
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Registered: Mar 22, 2002
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I like the 360's better - I have some of those as well as standard BD's and Expresses. I use the standards (22cm) for couloirs and alpine ice. I use the 13 and 17cm (and one stubby I think) expresses and 360's for waterfall ice. The Expresses rack better but in delicate ice or hard stances or any other "crux placement" I REALLY prefert the 360's - they crank with more mechanical advantage and thus less "oh f*ck the screw is sticking" or "hell I'm pumping out" and they don't require you to clear any ice most of the time or if you need to clear some it's certainly way less than for an express because of the hanger clearance issues. The other nice thing is this: assuming a downward pull on the screw, there are roughly 270 degrees of acceptable hanger orientation for the 360 - take a look at the hanger and you'll understand. For the express there is maybe 45 degrees although optimally there's probably 20 degrees or less. That means that you're more likely to hit a good rotation AND have the screw at "just the right depth" with the 360 whereas with the BD screws sometimes you have to power them in an extra 1/2 turn or back them out a bit or otherwise futz with the orientation.
...josh
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punk
Aug 19, 2002, 1:51 PM
Post #3 of 11
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Registered: May 28, 2002
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I’ll ditto for the 360 I only use the express in the sizes that the 360 dosent come with (10cm)
U will know their superiority once on lead long stretch of vertical to overhanging chandeliers ice when u don’t have the time to clear a circumstances for the leveler to work it way to the end of the screw also they are easier to hide from direct sun light…but they are pain in the a$$ to rack (I found the espresso sleeves to work very well) BTW the real manufacture for this screws is troll
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pinto
Aug 19, 2002, 9:10 PM
Post #4 of 11
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Registered: Apr 25, 2002
Posts: 22
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Bunch of Grivel lovers out there, huh?
Anyone ever used the Charlet Moser screws or the Smiley screws? The CM screws look intriguing/dumb with their seperate spinny thing.
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pbjosh
Aug 19, 2002, 9:30 PM
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Registered: Mar 22, 2002
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I've avoided the CM screws because of the seperate handle - seems kinda wank. Who knows maybe I'll borrow one. No one in the US or Canada stocks them though (figuratively speaking, I don't need you to post with the gear shop that does, heh).
The Grivel's really are "The better way" - when the pump clock is ticking and your f*cking around clearing a 10" diameter area of flat for the Express screw's hanger is when you'd most fully appreciate a Grivel 360
josh
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jtcronk
Aug 23, 2002, 3:26 AM
Post #6 of 11
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Registered: Mar 29, 2002
Posts: 122
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Warthogs and Snargs all the way! Well, maybe not. I'm generally using Smiley's screws with the express-style crank. They work as well as BD's, but are much cheaper!
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kelownaclimber
Aug 23, 2002, 4:26 AM
Post #7 of 11
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Registered: Dec 20, 2001
Posts: 163
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Let's face it no screw is EASY to place,but some are less of a race against the pump and fear than others.I tend to use Smiley's cuz they are a bit cheaper,start well,and for some reason are very easy to clean after removing!I hate it when my partner gives me screws with plugs of ice stuck in them....although they remember they forgot to clean that one in a hurry as you throw it at them screaming at the top of your lungs,elvis legs going,hand numb,dangling limply from your wrist leash......oh god I miss ice season...He..He..
[ This Message was edited by: kelownaclimber on 2002-08-22 21:27 ]
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tim
Aug 23, 2002, 4:31 AM
Post #8 of 11
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Registered: Apr 4, 2002
Posts: 4861
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One great thing about the Smiley's is that you can buy the coffee-grinder handles separately (for like $10 per 3-pack) and retrofit old BD and Smiley screws. Consequently, *all* of my screws have qwik-spin thingies on them, even the ones I bought from the dude who quit climbing in 1995 from a motorcycling accident...
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climbchick
Sep 9, 2002, 4:07 AM
Post #9 of 11
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Registered: Dec 29, 2001
Posts: 808
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Punk, what are espresso sleeves?
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joebuzz
Sep 9, 2002, 5:22 AM
Post #10 of 11
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Registered: Aug 5, 2002
Posts: 107
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I own all B.D. express and old style screws; pro deal from a shop I used to work in. I think they are just fine, though one of my partners swears by Grivel. I do think the Grivel's start driving a little easier, but they're pretty close. To sum it up, go with whatever because, when it really comes down to it; " When ice climbing; Falling is just not an option" Be Safe.
Buzz
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punk
Sep 9, 2002, 2:37 PM
Post #11 of 11
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Registered: May 28, 2002
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climbchick
here u go
Well u will definitely will look like an "Ice cowboy" or at least like a Mexican "Ice Ranchero"
In any event… it is a rubber sleeve that fully incase the screw (works with any screw) that makes life so easy as far as transporting the and storing the screws ( no more ripped packs, Gore-Tex, clothing or damaged screws threads) they come in a pack of two and can threaded directly to the harness for a quick draw however for a rack of 8 screws it might add a 8 oz in weight Ill definitely use it on Water falls Ice climbing but for Alpine I may think of an alternate way (2 screws per biner rack) just in the name of weight saving u can get them cheaply from Barrabes ro localy from Pro mountains Sports
hope it helped
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