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tradklime
Apr 17, 2006, 5:14 PM
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In reply to: better yet, get a jap. vehicle. :wink:
When It comes to owning a vehicle, you have to determine what is important to you. If it is cost of ownership, a Toyota may not be your best bet. They tend to demand a premium, new or used, that may more than offset any benefit of lower repair cost in the future. If you compare the cost of a corolla with a ford focus, you have to consider that if you can save several thousand in the original purchase price, if the relatively minor improvement in reliability is worth the cost. It could be like spending $3k to save $1k in the long run.
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keinangst
Apr 17, 2006, 5:18 PM
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In reply to: but, why do i want to .40 more per gallon when diesel is already .40 more! that is .80 more a gallon than gasoline, whihc is more refined (explain that one, Bushes!)
Wow...misinformation AND a troll in one comment!
$0.50 a gallon, not $0.50 MORE per gallon. Fifty cents total for each gallon (basically for the lye and methanol added during the conversion)
DIY biodiesel is one of the best things going, but if everyone switches to it I could imagine that local restaurants will start charging for it pretty quickly...:D
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watchme
Apr 17, 2006, 5:33 PM
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In reply to: Typically, I like the approach if it's scenic and I have the time. But if you have limited time knocking 10 miles RT off can be a good thing if there is the option. When I have week and want to knock off many peaks I wouldn't have minded driving the roads and cutting down my approach.
Bouncing along a true 4WD road at 5 mph vs. hiking at 2.5 mph does not save that much time really. Not to mention, getting stuck, flat tires, etc can add time to an approach when 4WDing.
Let's be honest here, most people like to 4WD into climbs to safe effort, not time. I would argue that, for most jeep roads, mountain bikes are way faster way than a 4WD. And that allows us to drive very fuel efficient cars, and lessen our impact in the backcountry.
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treez
Apr 17, 2006, 5:41 PM
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Not to change the subject or anything but check out my road tripper. :)
http://img232.imageshack.us/.../3417/vehicle7ln.png
1986 Vanagon Synchro w/ 1991 Suburu 2.2L power.
Decent mileage (you can take out the front drive shaft easily if you want, but the Synchro is amazing in adverse road conditions. No chains rec'd.)
Lots of space (I don't have pics of the inside, but I removed the seats and made simple, lockable bunk and storage. With the Thule there is tons of extra room, which is nice for organizing. I have a half inch bar across the top in the slider opening which is sweet for organizing the gear.)
A Westy just weighs more and has a bunch of superfluous crap that you don't need. (I cook on a pocket rocket or whisperlite depending on what I'm having. I'd have 'em both with me anyway.)
I took a two month trip down south last fall and I couldn't have been more pleased with its function. I can't wait till the next one.
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kyote321
Apr 17, 2006, 6:04 PM
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'Wow...misinformation AND a troll in one comment!
$0.50 a gallon, not $0.50 MORE per gallon. Fifty cents total for each gallon (basically for the lye and methanol added during the conversion)
DIY biodiesel is one of the best things going, but if everyone switches to it I could imagine that local restaurants will start charging for it pretty quickly... '
ok, smart one, biodiesel is made from soy and is added to normal diesel. greasel is made from grease. check you facts before you start slangin insults.
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pico23
Apr 17, 2006, 6:13 PM
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In reply to: In reply to: there are plenty of web resources that teach you how to make clean bio from waste oil for about .50cents a gallon and still be able to use standard diesel when on the road. I really looked into this about a year ago. From everything I read, 70 cents + gallon is more realistic, still great though. The biggest issue will be the time and effort you put into the enterprise. You will need to find a reliable source for free waste oil and pick it up on a routine basis. You will need to find a source for large quantities of pure methanol, and work out the storage of it. You may need a special permit, or at least work it out with the local Fire Department, etc. If you have the time, great, but otherwise I don't think its as practical is it sounds on the surface.
It depends on how much drive on how much it's worth. for me transport is literally my biggest expense both upfront and in gas. so saving $2 a gallon (even at 70 cents) is a big time savings.
i drove ~32,000miles in the previous 12 monts. or about 3,000 in gas cost.
with homemade bio diesel and a high mileage diesel motor. i would have spent $500.
to me $2500 is a decent amount of money to dedicate a few days a year to making the fuel.
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tradklime
Apr 17, 2006, 7:00 PM
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In reply to: It depends on how much drive on how much it's worth. for me transport is literally my biggest expense both upfront and in gas. so saving $2 a gallon (even at 70 cents) is a big time savings. i drove ~32,000miles in the previous 12 monts. or about 3,000 in gas cost. with homemade bio diesel and a high mileage diesel motor. i would have spent $500. to me $2500 is a decent amount of money to dedicate a few days a year to making the fuel.
I hear ya, and my hats off if you do it. I think it's great. I figured that I would have averaged at least a few hours a week and decided my time was more valuable to me, in addition to the up front costs.
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kyote321
Apr 17, 2006, 8:12 PM
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nice! a gremlin AND a jumpsuit!
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keinangst
Apr 17, 2006, 8:22 PM
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In reply to: ok, smart one, biodiesel is made from soy and is added to normal diesel. greasel is made from grease. check you facts before you start slangin insults.
(1)half-right: Biodiesel CAN be made from soy or just about any other vegetable oil. Rudolph himself designed the engine to run on peanut oil before the heavy hitters in the petro industry refined an alternative a few decades later.
(2)half-right: Biodiesel CAN be added to petro-diesel, but this is not required at all. Most manufacturers will only warrant thin blends of it, but most people have no trouble running 100% bio in modern diesels or retrofitted older models.
(3)?: I never said anything about "greasel" (never heard of it), so I don't understand your comment. Similar to SVO or WVO?
I only "slanged an insult" because you delivered your misinformation along with a smart-ass comment. You can't predicate an insult on something you just made up (straw...er...switchgrass man?). There are rules, Smoky, this is not 'Nam.
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sspssp
Apr 17, 2006, 9:14 PM
Post #61 of 94
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In reply to: Bouncing along a true 4WD road at 5 mph vs. hiking at 2.5 mph does not save that much time really. Not to mention, getting stuck, flat tires, etc can add time to an approach when 4WDing. Let's be honest here, most people like to 4WD into climbs to safe effort, not time. I would argue that, for most jeep roads, mountain bikes are way faster way than a 4WD.
If you own and carry mountain bikes, I wouldn't disagree (I'm not going to lug a mountain bike around on my long road trips).
However, I will quibble a bit with hiking at 2.5 mph. I've trained a lot on a treadmill (during the winter rains). 2.5 mph with a large pack and a significant slope/elevation gain is really booking along (it gets my heartrate way up into the aerobic zone even when I'm training 3 days a week). If the road is fairly flat and the pack not too heavy, 2.5 mph is not unreasonable, but it isn't casual either.
However, even in your example you could change an hour and half hike into a 45 minute drive. Not to mention that you will be fresher (and should be able to hike faster) than having spent the last hour and half hiking.
If you be an uber hiker more power to you--there are plenty of us who aren't.
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mikej
Apr 17, 2006, 9:34 PM
Post #62 of 94
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In reply to: In reply to: Bouncing along a true 4WD road at 5 mph vs. hiking at 2.5 mph does not save that much time really. Not to mention, getting stuck, flat tires, etc can add time to an approach when 4WDing. Let's be honest here, most people like to 4WD into climbs to safe effort, not time. I would argue that, for most jeep roads, mountain bikes are way faster way than a 4WD. If you own and carry mountain bikes, I wouldn't disagree (I'm not going to lug a mountain bike around on my long road trips). However, I will quibble a bit with hiking at 2.5 mph. I've trained a lot on a treadmill (during the winter rains). 2.5 mph with a large pack and a significant slope/elevation gain is really booking along (it gets my heartrate way up into the aerobic zone even when I'm training 3 days a week). If the road is fairly flat and the pack not too heavy, 2.5 mph is not unreasonable, but it isn't casual either. However, even in your example you could change an hour and half hike into a 45 minute drive. Not to mention that you will be fresher (and should be able to hike faster) than having spent the last hour and half hiking. If you be an uber hiker more power to you--there are plenty of us who aren't.
I am no uber hiker by any means, but when i used to back pack a bunch in high school, we would average about 3.5 mph over the course of the day with all our food, camping gear etc... we hardly had flat terrain either. Most of it was in the sierras. Usually closer to 3mph when we averaged in breaks or stops. 2.5+ is not unreasonable, but nevertheless, I'd off road in if given the choice. I guess i'm just lazy.
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renohandjams
Apr 18, 2006, 2:46 AM
Post #63 of 94
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In reply to: Oh if I could only find one of those in a biodiseal. Sigh. Otherwise, I say spend a little more money, and get a used Prius. Lots of storage space for a hybird, but mainly, sweet gas mileage! All of a sudden the Valley would seem so much closer when it only cost you 20 bucks to drive there. |
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toejam
Apr 18, 2006, 3:20 AM
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I wouldn't do biodiesel if you plan on roadtripping to Yosemite. Makes your car smell like french fries.
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renohandjams
Apr 18, 2006, 3:23 AM
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In reply to: I wouldn't do biodiesel if you plan on roadtripping to Yosemite. Makes your car smell like french fries.
Depends on the stock, even though you smelled bad, at least you would know you would be doing the environment a little favor. + If you huff the biodiesel it won't kill any brain cells like regular diesel.
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toejam
Apr 18, 2006, 3:30 AM
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Its not all that bad, just makes you hungry. But the bears in the valley will rip into it while you are up on the wall.
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renohandjams
Apr 18, 2006, 3:35 AM
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In reply to: Its not all that bad, just makes you hungry. But the bears in the valley will rip into it while you are up on the wall. |
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kyote321
Apr 18, 2006, 4:15 AM
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'along with a smart-ass comment.'
what about Bush? who cares? he is a lame-duck 32% who cares what his fascist agenda for world domination is anymore? or why we can't buy diesel for a fair price price like the rest of the world pays to encourage conservation.
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angry
Apr 19, 2006, 4:22 AM
Post #69 of 94
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A favorite discussion topic with TradKlime on our many trips is vehicles. Efficiency, price point, per mile cost, and usefulness. For a guy as anal as trad to buy that escape, you better believe it was the best of the options.
Until now. I've just one-upped him (in my mind).
My approach to driving is a little different. I wanted to attack the cost of being a driver from multiple fields. The goal was to get something that won't cost a ton to maintain, is cheap initially, has good gas mileage, and has the utility to take it on climbing trips.
I've settled on a 1989 Toyota Corolla All-Trac Station Wagon . Buying a rather old used car with the intent of getting many more years out of it is a tough cookie. I may have gotten lucky. Through Craigslist I posted a want ad for something along these lines. One of the responses was from a VW salvage guy who ended up with this Toyota. 130K and a near perfect interior. One owner and all the work was done at the dealer. It was loved she even had a new clutch installed, a few week before she wrecked it. The headlights, signal lights, grill, and hood are smashed. The frame is straight. It needs a new radiator and air conditioning core.
And now the good part. He collected everything needed to fix this car except the radiator, just none of it is installed. The price, $750 and I've got a very well maintained vehicle and with a little work, will get me 30+ mpg and be all wheel drive for many years to come.
Yes I said $750, and it even has a Yakima rack.
Booya!!
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sspssp
Apr 20, 2006, 7:38 PM
Post #70 of 94
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In reply to: I am no uber hiker by any means, but when i used to back pack a bunch in high school, we would average about 3.5 mph over the course of the day with all our food, camping gear etc... we hardly had flat terrain either. Most of it was in the sierras. Usually closer to 3mph when we averaged in breaks or stops. 2.5+ is not unreasonable, but nevertheless, I'd off road in if given the choice. I guess i'm just lazy.
To continue a perhaps pointless discussion (hey, I'm at work)...
I used to think I could hike in the 3~3.5 mph range also--based on trail mileage and what not. That was before I spent time on a treadmill. Maybe the treadmill speeds are incorrect (though I rather doubt it). When the treadmill is flat, I can go a little above 3.5 without breaking into a jog, but not much. 3.5 is still a "high speed" walk. At 3.5, you would be passing most of the other people walking through an airport (who are mostly also in a hurry). If you can really average 3.5 mph over the course of a day with all your food, camping gear etc., then I say you be an Uber hiker.
I'm certainly not trying to talk you out of hiking vs driving (sounds like your like me anyway). But I don't think most hikers move as fast as they think.
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omerdimsum
Apr 20, 2006, 9:02 PM
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A friend of mine was looking for a climbing / road trip vehicle at a similar price as you.
The short-list:
Toyota Corolla All-Trac Station Wagon
Mazda MPV van (2WD or AWD)
Nissan Pathfinder (AWD or 4WD)
Toyota Previa van (AWD)
And for a little more money:
Isuzy Trooper
Toyota FourRunner
Subaru
www.edmunds.com is THE PLACE for car reviews and research. The reviews, road tests and owner's opinions are priceless. Click on "Used", eventually sort by year to find the appropriate price range for the vehicle you think you want.
And...
After a couple years of research, I just traded in my Tacoma 4WD for a new Mitsubishi Montero Limited. This truck is a premier 4WD vehicle overseas (but underappreciated by US soccer moms). The seats fold into two, full leather futon beds. The moon roof is as big a plasma TV. Full 4WD. And unique in LA....I do a lot of 4wd but also conduct weekday business in LA.
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sixleggedinsect
Apr 20, 2006, 9:08 PM
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i'm a little late in the thread, but i thoguht i'd post up. ive been roadtripping for a couple years out of a ford escort station wagon. i woudlnt have it any other way.
downsides: low clearance, especially when fully loaded. too small for two people to live in. can't cook inside.
upsides: i get 40 mpg. ~30 with pure city driving. with rear seats unbolted and removed, and a bit of padding to fill the voids, i have a flat bed on one side of the back that i can stretch out on (im 5' 10"). i can sit up on the bed without banging my head on anything. i can tilt the driver's seat forward and it serves as a comfy reclined backrest. on rain days, i can go from the bed to the driver's seat without getting wet like all the truck/shell folk. super cheap car to buy. super cheap parts, available everywhere. cheap insurance. very reliable (ford-bashers, dont spout unless you know the escort's history). FWD, and no problems in ice and snow. uses low octane gas. not flashy so the thieves leave me alone. not a standard sleep-inside car, so the cops leave me alone.
btw- i think 4WD is a bad move for the road warrior, unless you are a dedicated backcountry mud freak. FWD, driving skill, and clearance are way more important.
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mikej
Apr 20, 2006, 9:28 PM
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In reply to: To continue a perhaps pointless discussion (hey, I'm at work)... more stuf
:lol: thanks for humoring me "S". When we were doing this, we were backpacking every weekend for about 2 years, so maybe I understated the "uberness" to avoid sounding like a crapmonkey. At the end of each day, we'd calculate our time/mileage. Not too difficult. I'm right with you on the "I'm at work and have nothing better do do" thing. Right now, I'm trying to think of how to ask to go home early on my last day. Some of our jobs need us, some of us need our jobs, and some of us are simply there. Until tomorrow, I fall under the latter. :roll: for now :D for monday!
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cchas
Apr 20, 2006, 9:34 PM
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Who cares, anything that will get you to the trailhead or crag. Cars/Trucks/SUV never made a climber and if it gets you there, its good enough
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mikej
Apr 20, 2006, 9:57 PM
Post #75 of 94
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In reply to: After a couple years of research, I just traded in my Tacoma 4WD for a new Mitsubishi Montero Limited. This truck is a premier 4WD vehicle overseas (but underappreciated by US soccer moms). The seats fold into two, full leather futon beds. The moon roof is as big a plasma TV. Full 4WD. And unique in LA....I do a lot of 4wd but also conduct weekday business in LA.
sorry about the loss of you taco. Don't mean to demean, but not the best move. Even Edmund's gave it less than par reviews. Be careful in that thing, they're known to be more tipsy than the average ute. in 98, was deemed along with the blazer, lowest vehicles in initial quality and in 2001, had rollover issues serious enough to become a public issue by consumer reports. Not a good reputation. Be careful bro. It seems versatile, but be aware of the consequences.
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