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rainontin
Sep 28, 2005, 12:49 AM
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Kryptonite is chipped too, hence the .14c/d grade. Rumor has it that Yuji himself drilled out a pocket to make it better.
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saskclimber
Sep 28, 2005, 1:11 AM
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In reply to: Manufacturing on hard routes is both accepted and common.
That's the most blasphemous thing I've heard today. Just because I can't climb a route thats >5.12 (in my case...at the moment) doesn't mean I'm going to ruin the grade for somebody who can legitimately. It's like running against a guy in the olympics who set a new olympic record; "it's fine, he wasn't fast enough to naturally earn that medal, but it's alright, because he artificially earned it". And now, incase you're wondering I'm not strictly concerned with what grade I can climb, but if I can't climb something at a certain grade right now, that just means I gotta get better...not f*ck with it so as to lower it to my standards.
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pbjosh
Sep 28, 2005, 1:26 AM
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It might be blasphemous but it's basically true. I would never chip a route myself but I've climbed on plenty of chipped routes, and I don't climb particularly hard. As climbs get harder the frequency of manufacturing does too. Not defending it, just agreeing with the concept that it's FAR more prevalent than people think, particularly on hard routes, and that most people who climb those routes (not all, but most) don't really care.
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saskclimber
Sep 28, 2005, 1:27 AM
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what about the idea of mortaring in pockets and shaving off crimps and chicken necks to make a route harder? :P
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fracture
Sep 28, 2005, 2:42 AM
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In reply to: Kryptonite is chipped too, hence the .14c/d grade. Rumor has it that Yuji himself drilled out a pocket to make it better.
Though, for the record, Yuji and Legrand claim they didn't drill it (that it was naturally there, but filled with mud). Legrand also did say that they did some cleaning, because the route equipper (Caldwell) did a poor job developing the route (apparently several crimps which ought to have been reinforced (or cleaned) broke off during their attempts on it).
Anyway they both thought the thing was too easy to be a real 14d. More from Legrand's perspective is here.
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fracture
Sep 28, 2005, 2:44 AM
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In reply to: That's the most blasphemous thing I've heard today.
Your use of religious terminology is fitting.
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kalcario
Sep 28, 2005, 3:16 AM
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One funny story about chipping that sticks in my mind involves the first route in France to be graded 8c, Agincourt at Buoux, that I read about in the Brit mag On The Edge in an article by Mark Pretty called "The Power And The Glory". Ben Moon freed this old aid line, a line of pockets that sort of resembled a crack that they used to beat pins into, but stayed away from the crack to force the grade and get the first 8c in France, and named it Agincourt, tauntingly commemorating the location of a British military victory over Napolean (guess he was saving Waterloo for something really hard). He eventually did it and claimed 8c, but Tribout repeated it using a different sequence that involved more of the original aid line, and called it 8b+. Moon then went up there and filled in the crack with cement! All for naught though as Raboutou (in 2 days) then Glowacz repeated the line with the cemented-in holds and downrated it to 8b+. Moon a few years later went on a crusade to repeat the hard (chipped) routes in S. France rated 14c like Super Plafond and Bronx and make an anti-chipping statement (but filling in cracks with cement is OK I guess...) repeating both but with extended, multi-week efforts, not quite what he expected and in contrast to the efforts of youngsters like Mazuer and Petit who sent in a few days. Moon went on to try Action Direct, downrating it to 8c+ (now considered benchmark 9a) despite failing to send, lost the FA of his multi-year project at Kilnsey, True North, to a then-unknown Strong Steve McClure, finally read the writing on the (taller than 12') wall and retired from climbing to the less demanding arena of bouldering.
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tweeker
Sep 28, 2005, 4:38 AM
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The route Vampire Direct is completely and 100 percent natural-, by the way I was Hated First.
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tweeker
Sep 28, 2005, 4:47 AM
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I know the area- It is nice in the fall- you should check it out- if you like 12a and up it is wonderful. Check out Dr. topo also www.nuclimbing.com for some photos
Thanks everyone for the lovely comments- I think Mike is a nice guy.
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sidepull
Sep 28, 2005, 4:24 PM
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Thanks tweeker, that's more of what I was looking for. I wasn't suggesting Pete had chipped or drilled or comfortized just that I others had and so I wanted to hear the truth from those involved. It sounds like you know the area and are familiar with the developers.
This thread has raised the issue of a "supposed" increase in the regularity of chipping on hard routes. 1) I'm not sure I believe that. 2) For me, comfortizing razor crimps is different than chipping to make holds (although neither is preferable) 3) style does have something to do with the send or else you wouldn't have seen Huber's response to Bernabe, or Legrand's response to the chipping, or the debate about Yuji's onsight, or Moon's cementing, etc.
BTW - interesting progression of SHIFT+1's below - Halton sequence or vehemence?
In reply to: . . . That is It! The TRUTH period!!!!!!!! . . . It is natural and beautiful!! . . . Psychedelic has a V13 crux!! . . . he left the hold as is and decided to get stronger! |
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iwannabekyle11
Sep 29, 2005, 6:35 AM
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:evil: Tweeker- Your full of balogna dude, why don't you just stay in your tower? That is it!!!!!!
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tweeker
Sep 29, 2005, 7:27 AM
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towers are cool you should get into it.
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iwannabekyle11
Sep 30, 2005, 6:52 AM
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Vampire direct looked absolutely sick. Way to go peter.
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iwannabekyle11
Sep 30, 2005, 7:00 AM
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I'm just joking ofcourse,vampire direct looked absolutely sick and sending was quite the accomplishment for Mr. Lowe. I was stoked to have witnessed it.
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iwannabekyle11
Sep 30, 2005, 7:06 AM
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Also this mike character needs to just grow a dick and go get on the thing (vampire direct) if he's got so much to say. Friggin boner. :deadhorse: :x
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smkyrobinson
Nov 5, 2005, 10:22 PM
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necessary evil 14c vrg.
Annihilator, 14c Potosi
Bachelor Party, 14d Potosi
Natural Law, 14c Charleston
gutbuster 2000, 14c Charleston
Ghetto Booty 14c/d Charleston
Hasta la Vista 14 b/c Charleston
The whore of Babylon, 14c little si Wa.
Just do it, 14c Smith
ice cream, 14c AF
psychadelic 14c utah hills
theres a few without including the over mentioned and over hyped stuff in Colorado,
Jumbo Glass at Clark Mountain will go at 14c at least.
At Potosi , Reverse Polarity linked into Bachelor Party, will produce a 5.15, 8 bolts of 14b lead to v9 roof encouter, then 40 ft 14+ enduro,
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blueeyedclimber
Nov 7, 2005, 2:39 PM
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Livn' Astro (14c) in Rumney, though I don't know how it compares in difficulty to others because it has seen quite a few ascents. It looks pretty sweet, though. I often pass by it along with many other routes there and wonder "What if?....., like.. What if I were better?"
Josh
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curator
Nov 27, 2005, 1:18 AM
Post #43 of 50
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Did Scott Milton's "shock and awe" at smith stay at 14c?
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curator
Apr 21, 2006, 4:10 PM
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Since none of you jackasses would answer my question.......I went to Smith Rock and asked the locals, looked at the route, saw someone working the first half (which is called Repeat Offender 14a), and the answer is: Yes, 14c. Don't make me answer my own questions again. I had to put damn 7000 miles on my van.
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curator
Apr 21, 2006, 4:12 PM
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Since none of you jackasses would answer my question.......I went to Smith Rock and asked the locals, looked at the route, saw someone working the first half (which is called Repeat Offender 14a), and the answer is: Yes, 14c. Don't make me answer my own questions again. I had to put damn 7000 miles on my van.
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curator
Apr 21, 2006, 4:12 PM
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Since none of you jackasses would answer my question.......I went to Smith Rock and asked the locals, looked at the route, saw someone working the first half (which is called Repeat Offender 14a), and the answer is: Yes, 14c. Don't make me answer my own questions again. I had to put damn 7000 miles on my van.
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mikej
Apr 21, 2006, 6:18 PM
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hey curator, i missed that last post, can you put it up one more time? :lol: :lol:
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wzrdgandalf
Apr 21, 2006, 7:32 PM
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Posts: 261
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Any thoughts on "Akira" by roughling. I heard that sharma saw it and said that he thought it could easily be the grade of 15b that roughling originally said.
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dan4183
Apr 21, 2006, 8:09 PM
Post #49 of 50
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Registered: Jul 15, 2004
Posts: 48
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You put 7000 miles on your van to go look at a route and have some locals confirm the grade? good use of fuel
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raymondjeffrey
Apr 21, 2006, 8:31 PM
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I, Jefro, do hereby confirm that Flex Luthor is indeed a 5.15a. There: it's confirmed; Flex Luthor is 5.15a.
Carry On,
Jefro
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